One important point is that no patient is forced to do 12cm, neither Becker nor Betz point a gun to your head and say "that or nothing". Betz did openly say during the consultation that less is safer, that I can keep 100% of my function until about 5cm, but did also highlight that patients came back to them because they were not happy with 5cm or less.
It is ultimately a personal choice. I did 5cm and am very happy with it, someone starting at 160cm will not see any difference at 5cm and must do more, as do people with extreme leg length discrepancies. For people like that Betzbone is a boon.
I think it is important people reconsider the ad hominem approach of blaming Betz and Becker for the increased risks associated with higher lengthening distances. It is like blaming Porsche for building faster, riskier cars or blaming NASA for offering some gifted individuals the opportunity to board Columbia.
I never heard of any patient who had ever done 12cm femur with Betzbone.
If you really want to achieve 12cm just do quad. Doing 12cm femur is really too crazy.
Don't expect to accomplish anything beyond 6-7cm by just doing bilateral lengthening.
I did 8 cm on my femur and 6.2 cm on my tibias. My surgeries were roughly 3 years apart, so I did not do quadrilateral lengthening in one go, but rather femurs in 2019 (Stryde internal) and then tibias in 2023 (with LATN External TSF Frames).
Since the Stryde nail had been discontinued by the time I was deciding on my 2nd surgery and I was hesitant about using external nails, I asked Dr. Giotikas if he would consider just doing another femur lengthening for me. I wanted to be weight-bearing, so I did not seriously consider doing Precice on my tibias. The only option for weight-bearing tibias is external frames.
Giotikas flat out refused to lengthen my femurs further. He advised me that it was very unsafe to go further on the femur because no credible studies had proven that 10 cm or more on the femurs was safe. So he advised me to stick to doing tibias and that is what we did.
Every reputable surgeon I have spoken to advises "safe limits" as being 7-8 cm on femurs and/ or more than 5-6 cms on tibias. I don't personally know of any patients that went more than 8.2 cm on the femurs and/more than 7.5 cm on tibias. Keep in mind that going 7-7.5 cm on tibias carries a high risk of ballerina foot, so that needs to be proactively monitored.
So if you do femurs + tibias and hit those maximums, that would equal close to 16 cm in total length. That is certainly life changing height.
Like some of the other posters here, I have also seen diaries from patients that went all the way up to 10 cm on femurs. I think those results are atypical (maybe 2% of patients might be able to do that) and it comes with a great deal of risks.
For those kinds of diaries, I don't doubt their credibility. However, somebody who states they lengthened 20-22 cm in combined femurs and tibias would cause me serious doubt. It is important to keep in mind that anyone can write a diary on a forum and we really have no way to independently verify the claims. If someone writes a diary like that and then "disappears" once follow up questions start pouring in, I feel that could raise credibility issues.
Therefore, I would be a bit surprised if a clinic consistently advertised 20-22 cm lengthening as a typical/ achievable result for most people. It just goes against everything I have learned and experienced about CLL over the past 4 years of researching this topic extensively, interviewing surgeons, and then personally undergoing it twice.
Quote from: CLLvet on December 28, 2023, 03:12:10 PMTherefore, I would be a bit surprised if a clinic consistently advertised 20-22 cm lengthening as a typical/ achievable result for most people. It just goes against everything I have learned and experienced about CLL over the past 4 years of researching this topic extensively, interviewing surgeons, and then personally undergoing it twice.
How did you interview surgeons? Consultations?
Quote from: Kintaeryos on December 28, 2023, 04:57:25 PMHow did you interview surgeons? Consultations?
Yes, exactly. Interview is not the best word. These were just consultations. But I came prepared with a list of questions so that the conversation would not get derailed and we could make the best use of the surgeon's (limited) time.
Tall from the old forum did 11cm on femurs with Betz. And he was crippled because he had major pains in the knees after about 2 years. He did 4-5cm to tibias after that to try to fix the biomechanics and maybe the pains amd then we lost his trace.
Only an idiot would let someone lengthen more than 8cm on femurs. And this is something that Betz and now the hair transplant Becker, his successor, let to almost any of their patients wants it and without even itb release.
Thats why I never thought of him as a respectable doctor. I don't even talk about his successor who doesn't even have the experience to be considered an option for LL. For hair transplants maybe.
Quote from: Body Builder on December 28, 2023, 10:11:34 PMTall from the old forum did 11cm on femurs with Betz. And he was crippled because he had major pains in the knees after about 2 years. He did 4-5cm to tibias after that to try to fix the biomechanics and maybe the pains amd then we lost his trace.
Only an idiot would let someone lengthen more than 8cm on femurs. And this is something that Betz and now the hair transplant Becker, his successor, let to almost any of their patients wants it and without even itb release.
Thats why I never thought of him as a respectable doctor. I don't even talk about his successor who doesn't even have the experience to be considered an option for LL. For hair transplants maybe.
That's crazy!
Interesting fact is that pain in knees showed up in a 2 years!
That means that some patients like the new guy mentioned above do 12 cm with Betzbone and think that they are cool and then pain in knees come!
Thanks for letting me know, that makes sense that pain or complications can come later.
I'll stick with 8 cm that is safe amount.
Quote from: CLLvet on December 28, 2023, 05:17:33 PMYes, exactly. Interview is not the best word. These were just consultations. But I came prepared with a list of questions so that the conversation would not get derailed and we could make the best use of the surgeon's (limited) time.
You did Stryde in 2019 - 8 cm so it was almost 4 years ago!
To be honest - any complications? Do you have anything that might disturb you?
I just came back to the forum since a long time and crushed into this thread.
Guys, please stick with the facts. As one guy said before, neither Betz nor Becker force you to go to the limit of the nail. In fact they monitor you, so that you can see how much you can achieve. Everyone is different so someone can achieve more than 8 cm someone only 6 etc.
From what I know there are not enough representative studies which proves that ever millimeter about 8 cm is turning you into cripple. With the right physio and doctor a lot is possible just have a look what some professional athletes are able to do.
I have done 10.7 cm and now, 1,5 years after lengthening I am totally fine. I can jump, run and walk totally normal of course I lost some speedness and the new biomechanics is something you need to get used to but nobody notice that I would walk like a cripple or so.
So everything is possible and I also don’t know why so much doctors limit their patients with 8cm in femur. Maybe because their nails they have to use do not service more? I don’t know but it is the only explanation I see…
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