Hello, I am a newbie to this forum and so glad I found it. I have been reading and just found a lot of useful info. I am going to post a somewhat lengthy bio about myself. Feel free to comment and answer my questions below.
Here it goes:
My name is Naimah, and if you think you're having many issues with your height (not saying that your issues aren't valid)..... Tryyyy being a 19 year old girl who is 4'8"/144 cm and has been teased her WHOLE life for being short, despite her good qualities and personality?!? I was always smaller than the rest of my peers at school, and although my parents noticed this, when we would go to the doctors they never saw it as a issue. The doctors told my parents that when I reached a certain age I could start "Growth Hormone Treatment" to help me reach my normal height potential. This happened when I lived in Colombia (where I was born). My family and I moved to the United States when I was about 8 years old. At this point nobody really bothered to get in touch with any doctors since we were trying to adjust to a new place. I do remember that once in a while when I would go to pediatricians for a check up, I was told that I was below the 5th percentile in height. No doctors ever took an initiative in informing my family and I about growth treatments to catch the issue IN TIME. Time went by and we kept moving from state to state. Every time I would see different doctors that had no prior knowledge on my growing conditions but they would all notice that I was short. They'd say "Don't worry honey, you'll grow someday". I got my menstrual cycle at the age of 10 years old (in 5th grade). My parents did see that it was a bit too early for me to go through puberty but they didn't think much of it. Although it seems like I wasn't taken care of, my parents were always seeking growth treatments and even took me back to Colombia to see if the doctors could recommend some treatments at a more affordable price. But by the time they took me to Colombia and by the time I got checked here in the U.S. by an Endocrinologist, all the doctors told me that my growth plates were closed and that I COULD NOT grow any more. That was it! I would be 4'8" for the rest of my life. We didn't seek any second opinions or any further help after this (partly because insurance wouldn't cover it) and we just kept going with our lives. Today I am 19 years old and I am still 4'8". I am seeking a second opinion for myself. I've also dealt with Hypothyroidism in the past and due to an abnormal metabolism I gained weight easily and developed an eating disorder. Not growing has brought me so much tragedy. More tragedy than my parents expected when they told us that my issue was irreversible. I was bullied, teased, and even got into some fights at school all due to my height. Kids thought they could pick on me and I was so insecure because of this matter. I never had a boyfriend, went to prom, or experienced a normal teenage life. I am a singer-songwriter, performer, aspiring actress, and athlete and I can say that being short has affected ALL of these areas of my life. That is why I am done suffering and I want to take charge of this issue, so I can live the rest of my life in peace! I know that I might sound unthankful or ungrateful because there are people who are much much shorter than me (suffering from dwarfism) but although I'm not as short as some of these people, height is STILL a big burden in my life. I've spoken to therapists about this and they all tell me that I should just accept what I cannot change, and for a while I did, but I am not taking anymore of this. I've also done a lot of research on how stem cells can help adults increase their height, and how gene therapy (CRISPR) can help but mostly in embryos. All of these other options are NOT available to the public, and I've tried reaching out to scientists who do medical trials but they never got back to me. So I found this surgery and this forum, and I am strongly considering this surgery as an option. My parents think that I am obsessed with growing taller and they don't really want to hear about this procedure. They also think that LL surgery is unrealistic for me because neither they nor do I, have the money to cover any surgery with many of the well reputed doctors. We are just struggling musicians who perform for a living and are trying to get by (I am also a college student). But I've read that you can get loans and funding or just plainly save up. Although by the time I save up for a surgery like this I'll probably be 50 and it won't matter anymore.
I want to live. I want to date. I want to feel more confident singing on stage.
I want to STOP having to buy kids clothes (I'm a size 3 in shoes and can't even find heels my size to look a bit taller!). I want to stop looking so chubby due to my height. I want to get back ALL those years I feel like I've lost!
That is why I am willing to do anything it takes to achieve my goal of getting the surgery.
Ok. My lengthy biography is over. Hope that made you feel some type of way or inspired to keep fighting!
Here are my questions, goals, etc...:
1.) I want to get "quadrilateral leg lengthening", which from what I understand means both femurs at one time and then both tibias. Two surgeries spaced apart not all together. I want to lengthen at least 3 inches in both my femurs and tibias. I have heard that it isn't recommended to lengthen the tibia this much, but I've read about people who've done it. I also know that this all depends on body type, and individuality of the patient. Getting at least 6 inches would put me at 5'2" which for me would be a glory coming up from 4'8". Still short but not ABNORMALLY short (my whole family is taller than me by the way).
2.) Method: With that being said, I want to find a doctor that uses the "STRYDE or PRECICE 3" method. As I've read that this will revolutionize LL. I am also considering the "PRECICE 2" method. I am terrified of the external method and fortunately for me, I was able to read @unicorn888 's diary about her tragic experience with Dr. Guichet. THANK GOD, because he was on the top of my list, since as of now I can't afford Dr. Paley. Now, Dr. Mahboubian I might be able to afford in the future.
3.) Financial Aspect: What should I do about the fact that I have no money for this but as you can see, this 4'8" girl needs this or wants this pretty bad.
4.) Doctors: Once I find a way to get the money for this, what would be my options for a still somewhat cheap but good option. I know Dr. Paley is the LL god lol but I don't think I can afford him and also he doesn't let his patient lengthen the tibias farther than 5cm. Also Dr. Rozbruch is really good from what I've heard, but is also expensive and will only do the surgery once, not twice (I need one surgery for the femurs and one for the tibias). As of now, ruling out all the CRAZY fiascos I've read about European and overseas doctors (Betz, Guichet, and other), I DO NOT want to take ANY risks of amputation, paralisis, etc... With my legs. I love my legs! I need my legs because I am a crossfit athlete. I know I may not get to full recovery to do crossfit after this but for being taller, I think it might be worth it. My only option right now for a doctor is Dr. Mahboubian because I've seen his webinar, some patient diaries, and he seems like a caring and nice guy. I hope I'm right. I think that maybe I can get the money for the femurs first and then do the tibias later on in life, but I really don't want to do that. I want to suffer twice but close to each other if that makes sense.
What are my options? PLEASE help this 4'8"/144cm girl get to at least 5'2 or taller 
!
Sorry for this lengthy post, but the world needs to know that I exist and need help :-Xlol.
Here is a link to my YouTube videos in case you're interested in hearing my music/covers:
Channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/naimabk
One of my covers:
Help! I need options for LL, I'm a newbie and a 4'8" girl!
Hello @unicorn888 !
I’m so glad you replied to my post, it truly means a lot! I checked the link you sent to the Bavarian Limb Center and they seem like a good option. They offer both bilateral femur and tibia lengthening for a total price of $83,000 dollars. According to the website it includes all the surgeries and if I am correct from what I understand it includes the nail removal as well, which sounds way too good to be true. It also includes the regular x-rays of the check ups during the whole treatment! Like I don’t know what could be better than this! The price is reasonable for both the femurs and tibas (a little too good to be true), and they offer precice which it’s fine if they don’t have precice 3 (I would prefer it but as of now only Dr. Paley uses it 
). What I am wondering is why their website doesn’t include any testimonals/past cases or other information (that doesn’t look very professional), also I’d like to know about their reputation and maybe get in contact with some of their patients as you said you were speaking to. Do they have diaries on this forum? Also what is the name of the surgeons I don’t think it was mentioned on the website? The website also didn’t specify if the bilateral femurs and tibias surgeries are done at different times or all together? It is NOT recommended to EVER do them at the same time, that is very important to know. Now I just need to find some more info and figure out how I’m going to stay in Munich for this long. But this is very good news that there’s a doctor who is offering Precice and seems good, at a reasonable price, I just need to find the surgeon’s name and contact them. I HOPE the communication isn’t difficult because I only speak english and spanish. Once again, thank you very much for your detailed reply, for the questions you left in order to ask to the doctor, and I really do hope that you’re doing better. I’m going to hop over to your thread to see your process if you’re still positing on there. Thanks again!
Quote from: taller_in_Kiev on July 30, 2018, 05:02:57 PMHi Naima
Very good questions you ask. Why isn't the doctor name even mentioned?
Agree with the list of questions.
I did bilateral femurs back in 2004 with the pioneering internal method, the Bliskunov/Jamal internal rod, fully weight bearing. Precise 2 is not fully weight bearing as far as I know.
I gained just over 4 inches and am now fully recovered and lead a normal life. You can have a look at my diary and photos here:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9000.0
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9023.0
Please ignore the stupid vid about keloid scarring in the first link. Someone scarred my diary with that after I initially refused to post scar photos.
I would not recommend you do femurs and tibias at the same time. The surgery is a huge strain on the body and my advice is to start with femurs first.
Having said that, I did meet one patient who did just that, he was a male in his 30's and did it with the same method and doctor, but he was physically very fit and lean.
As a girl, scarring should also be a consideration for you. How would you feel about that?
If you're going to do this surgery, spend a good couple of months just preparing. Go to gym, eat well, stretch, stretch and stretch! Your muscles should be as flexible.
Hope you get the money together and realise your dream. Wishing you the best.
Hello @taller_in_Kiev . I'm glad you answered to my post! I was actually not considering to ever do both femurs and tibias at the same time. As I've heard that this can lead to any complications such as "fat embolism", poor lengthening, you cannot lengthen as long as you could by doing it separately, maybe even paralysis, ect... I am already a bit terrified about this surgery (and I can't lie about that), so less would I be willing to take such a risk like that. I believe that I can overcome this terrifying feeling towards the surgery once I'm already in it. Lol, I will have to get over it, I'm 4'8" I need this....or at least I feel like I do. I'm pretty sure you understand how I feel. I'm glad to speak to you because you went through the process and with a foreign doctor. I am a bit skeptical about the foreign doctors, as a lot of American doctors say that their equipment is not FDA approved and a lot of the doctors that charge cheaper are not as meticulous or precise. But we all know that the procedure was not invented in the US which means that maybe foreign doctors have been practicing this for many more years. Of course this could be a marketing scheme to scare American patients so that they do the procedure in the US and don't travel overseas.
Honestly, I know that PRECICE 2.2 isn't weight bearing but I am not willing to risk any complications with the weight bearing clicking methods or the external fixators (which terrify me the most). I am a very pain tolerant person, as I am a Crossfit athlete and love working out, but I don't think I could handle externals. Also, what happened to @unicorn888 was very severe and due to the fact that her nail was used with the clicking method, she couldn't reverse the non-union. As for in the case of the, PRECICE 2, you can reverse your lengthening if there are complications like these. I'd also like to say that I'm looking forward to the STRYDE PRECICE 3 device because that one is fully weight bearing. As of now only Dr. Paley performs surgery with the STRYDE, but as we all know he's too expensive, especially for a quadrilateral. But then again it's my legs I'm talking about and I think that anyone's legs are worth more than money can buy! Therefore, I'm hoping to collect some money and consider Dr. Paley or Dr. Mahboubian (but I'm not totally opposed to the overseas options though). What do you think?
Also, since you asked about scarring, I think that I would be willing to have scars for if I am going to get something I've been dreaming of my whole life. I've also read and seen that with the internal methods, scarring is minimal compared to the external fixators. I can always get surgery to remove the scars, but I think scars are kind of cool and unique!
I also wanted to ask you about the nail removal procedure. I know that the doctors remove the "nails" but do they also remove the screws that hold the nails in place. A lot of doctors say that athletes have the screws removed as well. Do you have any information on this? It is important to me.
Lastly, my diet is very specific as I am a "Raw Vegan" (no animal products). Do you think a doctor will oppose to operate on me because of my diet or does my diet play a part in the recovery and such? This is extremely important me, as I love being a raw vegan and wouldn't change it for the world. Thank you for your reply and geeeez I'm sorry about my message being so long. I will DEFINITELY check out your diaries! Wow 4 inches is a good amount, I'm glad you came out safely. Thank you for posting the links. Much love!
I also just measured my wingspan today and it is 57 inches/144cm. The same as my height. My goal is to at least lengthen the femurs and tibias both to about 3 inches EACH (about 8cm), which would make me 5'2". Will it look too disproportional if I lengthen this much and my wingspan is that of my current height? I don't want to look like a T-Rex lol, or have to get arm lengthening surgery. 
Quote from: 419 on July 31, 2018, 07:25:46 PMif you are hot and stylish, even at this height you will have lots of suitors. I once dated a hot stylish 4'9" girl, she ditched me for a much taller (like 5'11, I am 5'4) and wealthier (earns like 200k) and handsome guy. If you are hot and stylish girl you don't need LL. For men it is different, competition is higher and short men get killed in dating and mating market.
Hello @419 ,
I appreciate your encouraging comment. I do not feel ugly at all! Not one bit. I feel beautiful in my own way and I think the same about everyone else. I just feel like due to my size I have dealt with weight issues my whole life, a past eating disorder, and just never really felt fully confident around people my age. I have a naturally “thicker” figure and because I’m short I look weird and kind of chubby. It is much easier to accumulate weight and fat when you’re short as many of you may know. Taller people just look slimmer and much fitter. No matter how much I exercise and eat correctly, I can never look proportional to my height. And when I lost a lot of weight in the past, I looked kind of like an 8 year old lol. Also it is extremely hard for me to find clothing and shoes my size as I have to shop in the kids section and sometimes I still can’t find sizes and the styles are for kids. I like to wear more womanly clothing.
I don’t think that getting this surgery is going to change all of these issues I’ve had, I mean I still must always accept myself and the way my body is. But I do think that the surgery could help me feel more confident around people my age and about myself. This is not so much about what others think of me but about how I feel being short. Some guys may think it’s cute for a girl to be short, and you’re right that some girls can be stylish and feel confident being short. I also agree that for men it is VERY difficult to be short and be discriminated against for your height. I’m sorry that most women like taller men (including me, and I cannot lie), but it all really has to do with your level of confidence.
REMEMBER THIS: I SAY THIS FOR MYSELF TOO. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SEE YOU AS YOU SEE YOURSELF (because as human beings, we sense bad vibes).
IF YOU LACK CONFIDENCE, DON’T BELIEVE IN YOUR GOOD QUALITIES, ARE GRUMPY, AND ARE FULL OF NEGATIVITY DUE TO YOUR SHORT HEIGHT.....PEOPLE WILL SEE RIGHT THROUGH THAT.
I think everyone should work on their confidence first and if they still decide to have the surgery then the surgery is only going to add to their BEAUTIFUL PERSONA!
Quote from: Kotiki on August 01, 2018, 04:19:15 AMHi there
Thanks for posting the video. One picture says more than a million words. While your whole figure/legs aren't visible, it is obvious that you have a very compact torso+neck.
There are stretching techniques you can do that, combined with glucosamine chondroitin, will elongate your neck and spine by about 2 cm. This will have an added benefit of making you look slimmer (not that there's any problem with weight).
Your goal of adding 14 cm to your legs is completely unrealistic. The longer the segment the more it can be lengthened. Starting with tiny tibias there is no way you could lengthen 7 centimetres safely. Even if you could, it wouldn't look good combined with your short torso.
You can probably safely lengthen your tibias by about 5 cm. Since you don't have the funds I would recommend external methods. I appreciate it that external method turns you off. But there's one thing you must consider: external method is a pain in the butt, but it is not by any means more scary than internal. For tibia specifically, it is far less dangerous to leave the knee joints and the inside of the bones alone and lengthen with externals. As a bonus, it can be done at a fraction of the cost.
With tibias and spinal stretching you could add 6 cm to your height. In the meantime, precise 3 could become more affordable in the next five years, so precise 3 would be the next logical step.
I wish you all the luck!
Hello @kotiki,
Thanks for your information. I know that it is possible to lengthen the spine up to 2cm but that is nearly nothing in height. It isn't very significant. Plus, I've heard that once you naturally lengthen the spine and neck, with a lot of movement and weight training, it has the potential to go back to the compressed way it was before. So it isn't a permanent nor significant solution. I respect your opinion about my goals being unrealistic. I think how much a person can lengthen is according to their frame and the ability of the bones to do so. However, I've seen much shorter people like 4'4", lengthen about 16cm all together in two surgeries, with the their tibias and femurs. I'd rather not even bother with the surgery if all I'm going to be able to lengthen is 5cm. To me that sounds like a joke and would only put me at 4'10". I want to be at least 5'2", which is still considered short but at least it's over 5". I think it all depends with the patient's individual ability to lengthen, and what the doctor recommends is safe. I know that Dr. Paley doesn't allow more than 5cm for the tibias, but then I also know that Dr. Mahboubian was able to get a patient to lengthen about 7-8cm in the tibias.
As far the externals go. I don't care too much about the scarring and I think scars are sort of unique. But I've heard that the externals are much more painful and have worse complications than the internals. Plus, the outside pins cut through your skin and muscles, leaving really bad scars. That can't be good. So for just a cheaper price with the externals, I'd rathere just save up a bit more and due the internals or precice 3.
I do agree that maybe it wouldn't be very realistic to lengthen 14cm or more with my height. Also, the fact that my wingspan is the same as my height does not help. I do not want to look like a T-Rex, as I've mentioned in the past lol. But I think that this surgery has a lot of pros and cons, and you just have to be positive and lengthen as much as you can but safely of course. I hope that my lengthening goal can me reached. Thanks again for your comment.
Quote from: myloginacc on July 31, 2018, 08:28:30 AMLoL. Two promoters in a single thread.
Naimah, talk to Unicorn through PMs. I could recommend a few other members, but they're unavailable right now. Don't trust everything you read here.
Don't go to anyone but Paley and Rozbruch if you want to stay as safe as possible, and don't want to leave the US.
Hello @myloginacc ,
Thank you for your comment. I do agree that Paley, Rozbruch, and maybe even Mahboubian are really safe and great options. It would mean a lot of you could recommend a few other members as you said in your comment. I'm really weighing in my options here and saving up to do this and I want to avoid any disastrous mistakes that will cost me my mobility for the rest of my life. Also what do you think about my lengthening goals? 8cm in femurs and 8cm in the tibias? A few members have commented or told me that this is super unrealistic in proportion to my torso, arms, and overall frame. Thanks again, much love!
Quote from: Purushrottam on August 02, 2018, 04:48:14 AMWhats your budget? Doing quadrilaterals is rather expensive. I took a loan (SoFi) to do a bilateral femoral operation with Precice 2.3 (Paley). I believe a femur operation with STRYDE is $95,000 and the tibial operation is $105,000. The combined operations (done 3 weeks apart) is $190,000.
EDIT: I forgot to mention:
At 4'8", I think you can medically qualify as suffering from a form of dwarfism ( I think its 4'8" and under). This means that you might be able to get insurance to cover part of the surgery.
Hello @purushrottam,
Yes I know that the quadrilateral surgery is very expensive especially when done with STRYDE and Dr. Paley. If I may ask, how was your surgery and how much length did you gain? As far as the financial aspect, I know I can’t take a loan but it would still not cover half of the procedure for the quadrilaterals, but loans are a possibility. Also, I actually didn’t know that I could qualify as having some form of dwarfism. How do I apply for this so that insurance can help me with the surgery? Do you know?
Quote from: montahn on July 30, 2018, 05:17:52 PMYou can try Dr Amar Sarin from India.
here is good thread about LL with Dr Sharin - http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=8944
Hello @montahn ,
Thank you for the advice I'll definitely check this link out and Dr. Amar. From what I've read it seems like it's better to get this surgery in your same country or find a well experienced doctor like Dr. Paley. I know he's expensive but I am hoping to make enough money to be able to afford him or Dr. Mahboubian. In India I think that this procedure is very common and there are good surgeons everywhere, but for me I think it would be a bit tough to be able to handle the language barrier and not understand the doctors very well. Again, as of right now Dr. Paley is unrealistic for me and I will try to afford him as I find a way to make that kind of money. Therefore, I appreciate your suggestions. I'll give them look! Thank you!
Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 31, 2018, 10:26:25 PMHow is your credit history? If your credit is good you could try taking out a medical loan with your bank. I took one out for $15,000 to cover extra expenses and despite not having that high of an income I was approved because my score was good. I looked into loans for cosmetic surgeries before, but all the ones I could find would not give loans for surgeries performed outside the USA.
I think you could benefit from CLL since you've spent so many years thinking about this. Could allow you to move on and focus on your talents.
How important is the issue of scarring for you? If you're not put off by having some scars on your legs that look like dots/bites, then going with the LON or external methods will allow you to at least gain 2 inches on your tibiae much sooner, and who knows, you may find that you feel much better at 4'10 and not want to go through femur lengthening.
My surgeon offers internal and LON/externals for lengthening. He's in Mumbai, India where vegan options are available easily and hotels are quite comfortable.
https://sites.google.com/site/cllrpatients/faqs/cosmeticlengthening
You could also look into Dr Solomin and Dr Kulesh in St Petersburg, though I'm not sure they offer internal methods.
Best of luck to you.
Hello @KiloKHAN ,
Thank you for your input. I agree with what you said that maybe since I've been wanting this, after getting it I will be able to move on to other areas of my life and pursue my talents fully. I want to gain the same amount of height on both segments but I've heard this is not very realistic. I want 3 inches in the femur and 3 in the tibias but from speaking to people on this forum and doing some research, it is not recommended to go more than 5cm on your tibias. But I think it all depends on what the doctor advices for each individual because we're all different.
Thank you for letting me know that there's vegan options lol that's very important to me zas I am a raw vegan and eat lots of fruits and veggies! Once again, thank you and I'll check out the website you sent. Much love!
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