Quote from: TIBIKE200 on February 23, 2016, 09:01:53 AMOn the tibias 6cm is fine.
No actually,i agree with Alittletooshort.Besides that i dont believe %100 recovery exists also more than 4-5 cm increase risks alot i believe.
Quote from: Peaceout on February 23, 2016, 09:22:06 AMNo actually,i agree with Alittletooshort.Besides that i dont believe %100 recovery exists also more than 4-5 cm increase risks alot i believe.
I have spoken with someone that have spoken with Catagni patients that did 6-7-8cm on their tibias and they are fine and dont regret it a bit (I will also get patients to contact and I will update).
I dont know if they were lucky or not, but they are happy with the results (aesthetically and functionally)..
I dont think it's wise to base your opinions on experiences of people who went to third world countries... Let's also say that sleeve-gastronomy is super dangerous because everyone who does it in thailand dies... Common sense people.
Quote from: TIBIKE200 on February 23, 2016, 09:34:00 AM I have spoken with someone that have spoken with Catagni patients that did 6-7-8cm on their tibias and they are fine and dont regret it a bit (I will also get patients to contact and I will update).
I dont know if they were lucky or not, but they are happy with the results (aesthetically and functionally)..
I dont think it's wise to base your opinions on experiences of people who went to third world countries... Let's also say that sleeve-gastronomy is super dangerous because everyone who does it in thailand dies... Common sense people.
I spoke to an othopaedic surgeon who uses the precise2 on a regular basis (mostly when one leg is shorter than the other) and he said that no one fully recovers after 2-3cm´s . This might have been a little exaggerated since he didn´t want me to do this surgery. I honestly don´t believe anyone who did 8cm´s and says he is completely fine. Dr. Peng said that the peope who did more than 5cm´s only recovered 60-70% when it comes to sports, so doing 8 and being fine is not very realistic.
My tibias would be longer than my femurs if I did 8cm´s and I´m 178 so my bones are already longer then the average LL´er.
Quote from: Alittletooshort on February 23, 2016, 12:36:29 PMI spoke to an othopaedic surgeon who uses the precise2 on a regular basis (mostly when one leg is shorter than the other) and he said that no one fully recovers after 2-3cm´s . This might have been a little exaggerated since he didn´t want me to do this surgery. I honestly don´t believe anyone who did 8cm´s and says he is completely fine. Dr. Peng said that the peope who did more than 5cm´s only recovered 60-70% when it comes to sports, so doing 8 and being fine is not very realistic.
My tibias would be longer than my femurs if I did 8cm´s and I´m 178 so my bones are already longer then the average LL´er.
The question is, why the hell you wanna do LL with 178cm (5'10) in the first place...
This is what I have been told and I am inclined to believe it... I am not advocating anyone to go beyond 6cm on one segment btw... I am still reclefting about either 5 or 6on my tibias.. And about the long legs which you have, longer legs are supposed to mean that you also have longer muscles (There are naturally 190 guys are are more flexible than a 160 guy so the starting height might not matter)
6 cm is not fine
it will depend
thats the thing... theres no way of knowing whethere 6 cm is going to be fine or a load of trouble until you actually do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble
Quote from: crimsontide on February 23, 2016, 07:16:46 PM6 cm is not fine
it will depend
thats the thing... theres no way of knowing whethere 6 cm is going to be fine or a crapload of trouble until you actually do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble
Yeah... thats seems to be the case. I just questioned all the first class doctors, just received 2 responses and basically they say that LL is very individualized. 5 cm does not mean you will be safe, and 7 cm does not mean you cant recover fully for sport activities. In general though, femurs and lesser amount mean more chance for you to recover.
Quote from: Daylight on February 23, 2016, 07:59:33 PMYeah... thats seems to be the case. I just questioned all the first class doctors, just received 2 responses and basically they say that LL is very individualized. 5 cm does not mean you will be safe, and 7 cm does not mean you cant recover fully for sport activities. In general though, femurs and lesser amount mean more chance for you to recover.
Who are the two that answered you?
Quote from: crimsontide on February 23, 2016, 07:16:46 PM6 cm is not fine
it will depend
thats the thing... theres no way of knowing whethere 6 cm is going to be fine or a crapload of trouble until you actually do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble
6 is the max from what I have seen. Afterwards it gets risky (Btw when I mean safe, I dont mean 100% I just mean minimizing the risks which still exist).
Also, it is to be noted that the videos on youtube of the two indian guys (The one that went from 4'11 to 5'2 with rozbruch and the other who did 4inches with paley all did EXTERNALS. I have yet to see good internals outcomes)
Quote from: TIBIKE200 on February 23, 2016, 11:40:46 PMAlso, it is to be noted that the videos on youtube of the two indian guys (The one that went from 4'11 to 5'2 with rozbruch and the other who did 4inches with paley all did EXTERNALS. I have yet to see good internals outcomes)
not sure why you feel the need to keep rationalizing externals over internals...
paley himself prefers internals for cosmetic lengthening and has described the shortcomings of externals compared to internals in his research
"external fixators are plagued by high complication rates secondary to pin-tract infections, associated risk of deep infection, neurovascular injuries, prolonged treatment time until removal, muscular and soft-tissue transfixation that lead to contractures and stiffness, pain and discomfort, refracture after removal of the fixators, as well as, psychosocial burden, requirement to perform daily pin cleaning, and physical awkwardness"
the main testimonial on the paley institute website is a guy who successfully did quad internals complete with links to youtube videos of his athletic recovery. his diary is on the old forum too. unless of course you want to accuse that of being fake too like shyshy. there's also oldiebutgoldie and yellowspike off the top of my head. I dont understand why, but you're refusing to acknowledge the number of successful internal femur recoveries out there
Quote from: goldenegg on February 24, 2016, 12:23:14 AMnot sure why you feel the need to keep rationalizing externals over internals...
paley himself prefers internals for cosmetic lengthening and has described the shortcomings of externals compared to internals in his research
"external fixators are plagued by high complication rates secondary to pin-tract infections, associated risk of deep infection, neurovascular injuries, prolonged treatment time until removal, muscular and soft-tissue transfixation that lead to contractures and stiffness, pain and discomfort, refracture after removal of the fixators, as well as, psychosocial burden, requirement to perform daily pin cleaning, and physical awkwardness"
the main testimonial on the paley institute website is a guy who successfully did quad internals complete with links to youtube videos of his athletic recovery. his diary is on the old forum too. unless of course you want to accuse that of being fake too like shyshy. there's also oldiebutgoldie and yellowspike off the top of my head. I dont understand why but there are a number of successful internal femur recoveries out there that you're refusing to acknowledge
Paley also reccomended a max of 5 cm for femurs once... Than extended it to 6.5 and now to 8.5... The funny thing is that this max safe limit is the same as the max of the nails he helped create.
No, I dont believe every internal diary is fake... I only said it about shyshy's diary. I dont have any proof... It's just my own feeling and it does not mean it's the truth...
Yellowspike hasnt recovered yet and betz's diaries arent to be fully trusted with all the things that happened there regarding Sysop/apotheosis and betz's agreements...
Paley's research contradicts Catagni's research about the safety of the external method (which btw, is still used much more worldwide in treating deformeties and disperancies in adults than internal methods).
Rozbruch, Paley's and even that fraud Dr. Mahboubian used externals in their "most famous" success stories on youtube.
About deep infections, it is much more common with internals than with externals for the simple fact that the internal nail is inside the bone. The superficial infections are easily dealt with.. Neurovascular damage is due to bad surgeons with lack of knowledge of anatomy.
And if Paley who treats 150 patiens a year for cosmetic reasons has only one success story on his main website, it means something (and it's not positive in my opinion).
Btw, if you search on Paley on the web you will see that he was kicked out because of some fraud or something from the hospital he used to work in.
Do I advocate externals? Yes, but only for tibias (internals do seem the better solution for femurs). But the only thing I do advocate is to go to the best surgeon possible (not thinking about budget because money is not an issue here).
I have chosen Catagni to be the only possible choice (If will do this surgery... I will decide after consultation) because he (with prof. Cattaneo) are the ones that imported limb lengthening from Ilizarov himself to the rest of the world. Catagni and Cattaneo were the ones that tought this method to the rest of the western world (even Paley says it) and as of today, there is almost no one that is as an expert on this technique as much as him(I mean external tibias).
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