Posted on Jun 8, 2022, 12:07 pm
#1
Hi guys,
long time lurker recent time poster on our forum, i recently underwent LON tibia with Dr. Quynh in Vietnam and wanted to share my thoughts and how things are going now that it has been about 2 and a half weeks since frame removal and im starting to use walker and learning to walk again. I write this diary post factum as I have questions pertaining to my recovery which I want to ask you, so might as well share my experience and then ask my questions.
Stats:
male
early 30s
starting height 170cm
western europe
Why I chose LON and tibia
Ive known about LL since many years, never was something I seriously considered, however recently over the past few years my height dysphoria has been amplified by some personal interactions. Also, I found myself single, without any immediate obligations therefore I finally could fit in a good 6 months away from friends/family for the LL + recovery so as to not have anyone know where exactly I am and what I am doing.
I chose LON instead of pure external for the fact that the frame comes off after lengthening is done, and tibia because there is just no way im doing LON on femur, I tip my hat to anyone who has undertaken LON Femur, you guys are heroes.
Furthermore, obviously price was a factor, as I am not financially well off enough to shell out 40-50k for internals. Moreover, reading about spending 100-130k on this surgery like how some patients do seems in the realm of dreams to me.
Anyway, I have told no one therefore couldn't enjoy the support of my family with the process and recovery. For this purpose I was looking for an LL doctor offering an all included package.
As we all know, the most famous "package" place is Buldu in turkey, but reading about his work ethics and distracting of 2mm per day and the fact that they put their patients faces on their instagram made me run away with 200km/h. Not to mention I don't feel the need to pay 24 000 euro to stay in a 5 star hotel for 3 months. A simple room with food seemed enough to me.
Enter the Vietnam doctor Dr. Quynh in Ho Chi Minh. This doctor does not speak English, which is not an issue to me, my main priority is skills and experience. Spent some time researching and figured he was a good choice.
The price I paid for my package was 21 000 USD for a 4 month All included package - visa, all surgeries up to frame removal(including scar revision which I decided not to do as I can't be bothered to stay in a hospital a 3rd time), room, food, helper 24/7, laundry, vitamins, medicine, xrays etc. Anything besides ordered food is covered. They say they offer 10 year warranty on complications - if something happens they cover free of charge. Hoping I don't have to take advantage of that one.
Anyway,
I wrote them in January, had the visa process started by them, waited 1.5 months for the visa and then flew to Ho Chi Minh to do it in March 2022.
What I experienced
Day 0-7
Arrival at airport - i got picked up by the English speaking assistant from the airport, who dropped me off at a quite nice small hotel in a good part of the city.
I spent 1 week in the hotel, and i was ordering food through him.
Day 4 of my stay we went for half body xray + tibia xray and to meet the Doctor, as well as current patients. Spoke with the patients, from their words and vibe I felt confident I have chosen a good place for LL. On the meeting with the doctor he looked at my legs and xrays and prescribed upper limit of 8cm lengthening. It was done with a contract which means that whatever I lengthen up to 8 cm will keep the complications warranty, and if I decide to do more than 8cm, there will be no warranty. Made sense to me.
Day 6
blood tests, heart tests, anesthesia doctor meeting, covid test etc
Day 7 surgery day
Well, finally the journey begins. In the surgery room I got a spinal infusion catheter installed for morphine and then had the surgery.
I woke up in the ICU with 7/10 pain, which I was warned would be expected, and its needed for adjusting the morphine dosage.
VERY GOOD THING was the fact that the English assistant was sitting next to my bed when I woke up in the ICU. I told them my pain level and they adjusted the morphine. I went back to sleep.
I think they overdid a little bit the morphine because I literally felt 0/10 pain for the next 2 days I had the morphine catheter on. Not that im complaining, I hate pain anyway.
After the icu I got moved to my hospital room, where a helper, a middle aged vietnamese lady, was waiting for me. The room had 2 beds, so she would be 24/7 with me. I was feeling 0 pain but slept most of that day. I spent the next few days in bed as I was only allowed mild exercise such as raising my legs to get the blood moving.
Day 9
Removal of morphine from spine and continuing normal infusion painkillers and antibiotics and blood thinners.
I got infused paracetamol multiple times a day which kept my pain level at 0/10 for the entire 7 day hospital stay. There was other things written on the paracetamol bottles which I couldn't read so it was some sort of paracetamol cktail + other medicine which I don't know.
Considering what horror stories I have read in the past on diaries here, I had a completely uneventful hospital stay with 0/10 pain.
Day 10
First walking with walker in hospital room. Well it was definitely painful but I knew I had to walk some so I walked across the room and back to the bed. Took me about 30 minutes and several sitting downs to rest.
Day 14
Discharge from hospital and getting back to the center. Got to their center, which was a multi-room apartment located in a residential area. Every patient has his own room and some get an inroom bathroom for extra charge. I didn't pay extra so I was sharing a bathroom with another patient. The helper from the hospital stayed with me in the room for 3 more days.
I was walking with the walker for these 3 days with the helper standing behind me with a small chair in case I need to rest or lose my balance.
Since I hate pain, I asked the assistant for painkillers and they gave me a Tramadol/Paracetamol mix, which kept my pain at 0/10 for basically the entire time in frames.
Day 17
Helper leaves, Im left alone. I get told to use a wheelchair for moving around as noone can be with me 24/7 like the helper to walk behind me and keep me safe from losing my balance and falling backwards. First time in my life using a wheelchair, you get used to operating it literally in 5 minutes though.
Day 18
Doctor comes with several assistants, one of which is my English speaking assistant. He did some adjustments to the frame and taught me how to turn the frame in order to distract.
Day 19-75
The lengthening process. Every day I hang out in my room, do my 4 turns a day, eat my food, and watch stuff on my laptop. Physical therapist comes every day 5 days a week for 1 hour and you need to do exercises, and she gives you feet massage.
Sleeping on my back was an issue for a good 3 weeks after I moved from the hospital to the apartment, until I got used to it. Every time i tried to side-sleep with the frames on it felt very awkward so I just stuck to back sleeping.
Showering was once a week, with waterproof covering on frames while sitting in the wheelchair in the shower.
Bandage change was 2 times per week, with the 2nd time being after the shower to remove moisture and lower the pin site infection chance.
Happy to report I had no pin site infections, which I understand are quite painful so at least that I skipped.
I cleared 50 mm so time to get those frames off.
Day 76
Frame removal day, back to the hospital. Felt excited to have these medieval torture devices off my legs and the lightness to come. I wake up in ICU with 6/10 pain concentrated in the ankles for some reason, have them adjust the morphine machine(this time IV), get down to 1-2/10 and get moved to my hospital room.
Again, a vietnamese lady helper to be with me during my hospital stay, which was 1 day. Not much to report regarding pain or discomfort. Just slept a lot, unfortunately had 0 appetite, especially when I smelled the hospital food when they brought it in. Ordered take out McDonalds to my hospital room, 3 burgers to at least eat something caloric that day and not have an entire day of 0 food. I spent 4 hours eating my Mcdonalds bite by bite, as 0 appetite made it difficult, so i had to be very careful not to make myself nauseous and having to puke all over myself.
Day 77
Back to the apartment, felt very good to be home(and it does feel like home after so long in there).
Day 78-83
4/10 pain level in ankles which I controlled with tramadol.
Day 84
First day of 0 painkillers as the pain was tolerable at 0-1/10. Going forward I haven't taken any more Tramadol, which was a milestone for me, as I had been taking it daily for all this time so I was concerned there would be addiction, thank God, no issues with craving to take it or anything.
Day 89
Xray day to see how the healing goes. Doctor tells me im allowed 70% weight bearing for 4 more weeks(total 6 weeks after frame removal). This shattered my hopes for walking without assistance sooner than 6 weeks however if the doctor says I will of course listen.
Day 91
After 2 weeks of 0 weight bearing this is the first day Im allowed to walk with the walker. Ballerina at 1.5cm if im able to judge correctly. Felt sad and depressed as I was walking with the walker i was only able to use my toes and it was very exhausting.
Day 93
Today, already did 3 sessions of therapy and walking. Still on my toes. Current thoughts and state of mind - mildly depressed, will I ever be able to take a normal stride where I put my heel down and push off with my toes, will I ever be normal again?! Did I make a mistake fking up my healthy legs and body.........and such thoughts..............time will tell
All in all summary of the Pros and cons of doing surgery with this doctor and their package
PROS
- cheapest LON package currently as far as I know, almost 10 000 USD less than Buldu
- pain management protocol dedicated to full patient comfort. Narcotics are given as much as requested(tramadol), without issue
- quiet, clean room in an apartment on the 15th floor so no mosquitoes and random bugs flying in the room
- good enough wifi to stream netflix
- assistant with you at all times for xrays and hospital visits. Assistant available 24/7 on the phone if needed during the lengthening process. You just call him and wake him up if its an emergency and he comes in 5 minutes. I had to take advantage of that only once, one night at around 2cm lengthened I panicked because I couldn't fall asleep and just straight up told him to start organizing the frame removal as I can't be bothered with this bull anymore and wasn't thinking clearly. He came over in the middle of the night and calmed me down.
CONS
- Noone speaks english besides the assistant - need google translate app on the phone to communicate
- Food provided with the package is vietnamese, as a westerner I can't get used to it. It is eatable but nothing to write home about. You can make small adjustments if you're vegan for example. I had them make me extra eggs every day(boiled/omelletes etc). Sometimes I don't eat it and order takeout
- xrays are not digitally provided to patient besides physically looking at them because their framing is a company secret
- For tibia they use 3/4 illizarov frame(opening on the back allows full knee mobility) which is very heavy and bulky. Would've preferred monorail like the turkish doctors. For femur they do use monorail for obvious reasons
Open for questions as I am kinda bored sitting in my room
long time lurker recent time poster on our forum, i recently underwent LON tibia with Dr. Quynh in Vietnam and wanted to share my thoughts and how things are going now that it has been about 2 and a half weeks since frame removal and im starting to use walker and learning to walk again. I write this diary post factum as I have questions pertaining to my recovery which I want to ask you, so might as well share my experience and then ask my questions.
Stats:
male
early 30s
starting height 170cm
western europe
Why I chose LON and tibia
Ive known about LL since many years, never was something I seriously considered, however recently over the past few years my height dysphoria has been amplified by some personal interactions. Also, I found myself single, without any immediate obligations therefore I finally could fit in a good 6 months away from friends/family for the LL + recovery so as to not have anyone know where exactly I am and what I am doing.
I chose LON instead of pure external for the fact that the frame comes off after lengthening is done, and tibia because there is just no way im doing LON on femur, I tip my hat to anyone who has undertaken LON Femur, you guys are heroes.
Furthermore, obviously price was a factor, as I am not financially well off enough to shell out 40-50k for internals. Moreover, reading about spending 100-130k on this surgery like how some patients do seems in the realm of dreams to me.
Anyway, I have told no one therefore couldn't enjoy the support of my family with the process and recovery. For this purpose I was looking for an LL doctor offering an all included package.
As we all know, the most famous "package" place is Buldu in turkey, but reading about his work ethics and distracting of 2mm per day and the fact that they put their patients faces on their instagram made me run away with 200km/h. Not to mention I don't feel the need to pay 24 000 euro to stay in a 5 star hotel for 3 months. A simple room with food seemed enough to me.
Enter the Vietnam doctor Dr. Quynh in Ho Chi Minh. This doctor does not speak English, which is not an issue to me, my main priority is skills and experience. Spent some time researching and figured he was a good choice.
The price I paid for my package was 21 000 USD for a 4 month All included package - visa, all surgeries up to frame removal(including scar revision which I decided not to do as I can't be bothered to stay in a hospital a 3rd time), room, food, helper 24/7, laundry, vitamins, medicine, xrays etc. Anything besides ordered food is covered. They say they offer 10 year warranty on complications - if something happens they cover free of charge. Hoping I don't have to take advantage of that one.
Anyway,
I wrote them in January, had the visa process started by them, waited 1.5 months for the visa and then flew to Ho Chi Minh to do it in March 2022.
What I experienced
Day 0-7
Arrival at airport - i got picked up by the English speaking assistant from the airport, who dropped me off at a quite nice small hotel in a good part of the city.
I spent 1 week in the hotel, and i was ordering food through him.
Day 4 of my stay we went for half body xray + tibia xray and to meet the Doctor, as well as current patients. Spoke with the patients, from their words and vibe I felt confident I have chosen a good place for LL. On the meeting with the doctor he looked at my legs and xrays and prescribed upper limit of 8cm lengthening. It was done with a contract which means that whatever I lengthen up to 8 cm will keep the complications warranty, and if I decide to do more than 8cm, there will be no warranty. Made sense to me.
Day 6
blood tests, heart tests, anesthesia doctor meeting, covid test etc
Day 7 surgery day
Well, finally the journey begins. In the surgery room I got a spinal infusion catheter installed for morphine and then had the surgery.
I woke up in the ICU with 7/10 pain, which I was warned would be expected, and its needed for adjusting the morphine dosage.
VERY GOOD THING was the fact that the English assistant was sitting next to my bed when I woke up in the ICU. I told them my pain level and they adjusted the morphine. I went back to sleep.
I think they overdid a little bit the morphine because I literally felt 0/10 pain for the next 2 days I had the morphine catheter on. Not that im complaining, I hate pain anyway.
After the icu I got moved to my hospital room, where a helper, a middle aged vietnamese lady, was waiting for me. The room had 2 beds, so she would be 24/7 with me. I was feeling 0 pain but slept most of that day. I spent the next few days in bed as I was only allowed mild exercise such as raising my legs to get the blood moving.
Day 9
Removal of morphine from spine and continuing normal infusion painkillers and antibiotics and blood thinners.
I got infused paracetamol multiple times a day which kept my pain level at 0/10 for the entire 7 day hospital stay. There was other things written on the paracetamol bottles which I couldn't read so it was some sort of paracetamol cktail + other medicine which I don't know.
Considering what horror stories I have read in the past on diaries here, I had a completely uneventful hospital stay with 0/10 pain.
Day 10
First walking with walker in hospital room. Well it was definitely painful but I knew I had to walk some so I walked across the room and back to the bed. Took me about 30 minutes and several sitting downs to rest.
Day 14
Discharge from hospital and getting back to the center. Got to their center, which was a multi-room apartment located in a residential area. Every patient has his own room and some get an inroom bathroom for extra charge. I didn't pay extra so I was sharing a bathroom with another patient. The helper from the hospital stayed with me in the room for 3 more days.
I was walking with the walker for these 3 days with the helper standing behind me with a small chair in case I need to rest or lose my balance.
Since I hate pain, I asked the assistant for painkillers and they gave me a Tramadol/Paracetamol mix, which kept my pain at 0/10 for basically the entire time in frames.
Day 17
Helper leaves, Im left alone. I get told to use a wheelchair for moving around as noone can be with me 24/7 like the helper to walk behind me and keep me safe from losing my balance and falling backwards. First time in my life using a wheelchair, you get used to operating it literally in 5 minutes though.
Day 18
Doctor comes with several assistants, one of which is my English speaking assistant. He did some adjustments to the frame and taught me how to turn the frame in order to distract.
Day 19-75
The lengthening process. Every day I hang out in my room, do my 4 turns a day, eat my food, and watch stuff on my laptop. Physical therapist comes every day 5 days a week for 1 hour and you need to do exercises, and she gives you feet massage.
Sleeping on my back was an issue for a good 3 weeks after I moved from the hospital to the apartment, until I got used to it. Every time i tried to side-sleep with the frames on it felt very awkward so I just stuck to back sleeping.
Showering was once a week, with waterproof covering on frames while sitting in the wheelchair in the shower.
Bandage change was 2 times per week, with the 2nd time being after the shower to remove moisture and lower the pin site infection chance.
Happy to report I had no pin site infections, which I understand are quite painful so at least that I skipped.
I cleared 50 mm so time to get those frames off.
Day 76
Frame removal day, back to the hospital. Felt excited to have these medieval torture devices off my legs and the lightness to come. I wake up in ICU with 6/10 pain concentrated in the ankles for some reason, have them adjust the morphine machine(this time IV), get down to 1-2/10 and get moved to my hospital room.
Again, a vietnamese lady helper to be with me during my hospital stay, which was 1 day. Not much to report regarding pain or discomfort. Just slept a lot, unfortunately had 0 appetite, especially when I smelled the hospital food when they brought it in. Ordered take out McDonalds to my hospital room, 3 burgers to at least eat something caloric that day and not have an entire day of 0 food. I spent 4 hours eating my Mcdonalds bite by bite, as 0 appetite made it difficult, so i had to be very careful not to make myself nauseous and having to puke all over myself.
Day 77
Back to the apartment, felt very good to be home(and it does feel like home after so long in there).
Day 78-83
4/10 pain level in ankles which I controlled with tramadol.
Day 84
First day of 0 painkillers as the pain was tolerable at 0-1/10. Going forward I haven't taken any more Tramadol, which was a milestone for me, as I had been taking it daily for all this time so I was concerned there would be addiction, thank God, no issues with craving to take it or anything.
Day 89
Xray day to see how the healing goes. Doctor tells me im allowed 70% weight bearing for 4 more weeks(total 6 weeks after frame removal). This shattered my hopes for walking without assistance sooner than 6 weeks however if the doctor says I will of course listen.
Day 91
After 2 weeks of 0 weight bearing this is the first day Im allowed to walk with the walker. Ballerina at 1.5cm if im able to judge correctly. Felt sad and depressed as I was walking with the walker i was only able to use my toes and it was very exhausting.
Day 93
Today, already did 3 sessions of therapy and walking. Still on my toes. Current thoughts and state of mind - mildly depressed, will I ever be able to take a normal stride where I put my heel down and push off with my toes, will I ever be normal again?! Did I make a mistake fking up my healthy legs and body.........and such thoughts..............time will tell
All in all summary of the Pros and cons of doing surgery with this doctor and their package
PROS
- cheapest LON package currently as far as I know, almost 10 000 USD less than Buldu
- pain management protocol dedicated to full patient comfort. Narcotics are given as much as requested(tramadol), without issue
- quiet, clean room in an apartment on the 15th floor so no mosquitoes and random bugs flying in the room
- good enough wifi to stream netflix
- assistant with you at all times for xrays and hospital visits. Assistant available 24/7 on the phone if needed during the lengthening process. You just call him and wake him up if its an emergency and he comes in 5 minutes. I had to take advantage of that only once, one night at around 2cm lengthened I panicked because I couldn't fall asleep and just straight up told him to start organizing the frame removal as I can't be bothered with this bull anymore and wasn't thinking clearly. He came over in the middle of the night and calmed me down.
CONS
- Noone speaks english besides the assistant - need google translate app on the phone to communicate
- Food provided with the package is vietnamese, as a westerner I can't get used to it. It is eatable but nothing to write home about. You can make small adjustments if you're vegan for example. I had them make me extra eggs every day(boiled/omelletes etc). Sometimes I don't eat it and order takeout
- xrays are not digitally provided to patient besides physically looking at them because their framing is a company secret
- For tibia they use 3/4 illizarov frame(opening on the back allows full knee mobility) which is very heavy and bulky. Would've preferred monorail like the turkish doctors. For femur they do use monorail for obvious reasons
Open for questions as I am kinda bored sitting in my room
