Quote from: myloginacct on May 27, 2018, 11:56:58 AMWhat a bunch of bs you wrote about Italy and Italians.
And correlating the status of "Italians" as 3rd worlders (in your conception) with the color of their skin? Really?
I guess all the tales about geography classes in the US are true. You do know Italy has only become an unified country in the last 147 years, right? There's no such thing as pure ethnic Italians, equal in genetics from south to north, from southwest to northeast. The same can also be said about the "whitest" part of Europe, i.e., Scandinavia.
Do you even know what alphabet you are using to write all that nonsense?
Italy, a third world country? Your paternal bloodline should have been eradicated? You do know you, yourself, are a member of that bloodline, right?
And here I thought you weren't just another lunatic in this forum.
I know I have been there and am one myself. I like to disassociate myself with them in my head. I agree could be much worse.
I believe they are non aryan AND they’re third worlders. Not third worlders because they’re non aryan. Not that it matters or I even care if you thought that’s what I meant lol. Me personally, I would have preferred to inherit more traits from the other side of my family.
What’s the problem with the eradication comment? I’m fully aware of what bloodline I’m a part of.
What's the minimum height in your opinion to be a hot guy?
@Johnson1111 He obviously meant that if your bloodline didn't exist, you yourself wouldn't either, so would you rather not exist? Isn't that a bit of a morbid assertion. Personally I get where you're coming from since I too wished that the dominant genes that manifested would have been from my mother's side, then I would probably been taller and more masculine. Are you racially discrepant compared to your cousins or relatives? Is that the reason for this resentment?
Quote from: ZUCC420 on May 27, 2018, 04:44:15 PM@Johnson1111 He obviously meant that if your bloodline didn't exist, you yourself wouldn't either, so would you rather not exist? Isn't that a bit of a morbid assertion. Personally I get where you're coming from since I too wished that the dominant genes that manifested would have been from my mother's side, then I would probably been taller and more masculine. Are you racially discrepant compared to your cousins or relatives? Is that the reason for this resentment?
I'm whiter than my dads side but not as white as my moms side. This is literal too as in i'm referring to my skin tone. I prefer to be 100% on my moms side.
I mainly want to disassociate from the small, mighty label that is put on that side of my family that i've inherited. That type of person disgusts me so therefor I disgust myself in many ways. I label myself with something that is completely out of my control. Probably the worst thing a man can do.
This is why i'm willing to trash my athletics which I excel at for a few inches. I'm not a circus show where I have to do X , Y , Z when I first meet people as if to say "Hey i'm smaller but don't get it twisted i'm worthy!" Or something of that nature.
Some people would call me crazy for wanting to do that and I agree to an extent. If I even recovered ONLY 70% i'd still be more than capable in an athletic environment.
When you say you'd be taller and more masculine half of that is simply not true. You'd APPEAR more masculine. In reality being taller means nothing when it comes to being masculine. But we can all agree that we are wired to think differently. We are wired to think wrongly.
Myloginacc might think that's a ridiculous way of thinking. All that matters to me is that I don't. Just like nobody can change his mind.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 27, 2018, 05:41:25 PMWhen you say you'd be taller and more masculine half of that is simply not true. You'd APPEAR more masculine. In reality being taller means nothing when it comes to being masculine. But we can all agree that we are wired to think differently. We are wired to think wrongly.
You are partially correct but to disregard an integral dimorphic characteristic of a man is illogical, a 5' man with a beefed up body will never be conventionally masculine regardless of a dominant/assertive personality, and will be seen as having Napoleon complex aka manlet syndrome. There is a criteria of masculinity and physicality plays a greater role relative to personality, in short you have to be at least average in terms of height to even be considered masculine by "women", only after then your personality will determine whether you're alpha or beta. You may agree to disagree but there are countless of studies regarding dimorphism and sexual selection.
Quote from: ZUCC420 on May 27, 2018, 06:23:10 PMYou are partially correct but to disregard an integral dimorphic characteristic of a man is illogical, a 5' man with a beefed up body will never be conventionally masculine regardless of a dominant/assertive personality, and will be seen as having Napoleon complex aka manlet syndrome. There is a criteria of masculinity and physicality plays a greater role relative to personality, in short you have to be at least average in terms of height to even be considered masculine by "women", only after then your personality will determine whether you're alpha or beta. You may agree to disagree but there are countless of studies regarding dimorphism and sxxual selection.
The whole alpha/beta talk is ridiculous to me. How would anyone ever TRULY prove it other than to focus on a mans performance in his life? Are we fighting in coliseums and killing for our food? I mean come on lol. And if you focused on performance there would be countless shorter guys that are more "alpha" than taller ones. So it obviously can't be that.
It's just false interpretation and social stigma that we are battling. Not reality. Men a few inches taller are NOT more "masculine" in any objective way other than how they're interpreted socially based on outdated biological wiring in our brains.
It's APPEARING more masculine so you can BE more masculine in the eyes of others. The goalposts are adjusted, and the definitions are twisted just like the word "racism" these days. We are just stooping down to the dumb game.
That's all being taller is and does for you. And that's admittedly important since no matter what other logical steps you take to be more "manly" you will be judged by your height first and foremost. So it's a smart move to play the game and want to be taller in this day in age since it's judged so heavily whether logically or not.
It's just weighing the pros and cons of doing LL. Athleticism and performance in physical tasks being the most heavily weighed thing in most peoples's minds aside from the obvious other risks negligence and the procedure itself present when they're deciding on the surgery. Most of us have accepted it now, inevitably some of us will regret it forever.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 27, 2018, 06:48:19 PMThe whole alpha/beta talk is ridiculous to me. How would anyone ever TRULY prove it other than to focus on a mans performance in his life? Are we fighting in coliseums and killing for our food? I mean come on lol. And if you focused on performance there would be countless shorter guys that are more "alpha" than taller ones. So it obviously can't be that.
The argument could be made that since we don't live in the cave days where we would need to be taller and stronger to survive and protect (run faster, cover more ground), nevertheless height and long limbs are a vital health indicator, tallness is associated with better athleticism (there are studies on this), shorter guys may be stronger because of stumpy limbs capable of exerting more force but it's negligible, more often then not the taller guy might be stronger because of the large torso size, thicker bones.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 27, 2018, 06:48:19 PMIt's just false interpretation and social stigma that we are battling. Not reality. Men a few inches taller are NOT more "masculine" in any objective way other than how they're interpreted socially based on outdated biological wiring in our brains.
And this outdated biological lust will stay for a long time before humanity finally evolves into a more sxxless cerebral logical beings, until then it's pointless to even vindicate about this. Maybe the society of first world countries does reinforce the taller the better theme but it's ingrained deeply and intrinsically onto human beings, take my third world country for example; here taller guys are seen as successful aristocrats despite nothing indicating of such.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 27, 2018, 06:48:19 PMIt's just weighing the pros and cons of doing LL. Athleticism and performance in physical tasks being the most heavily weighed thing in most peoples's minds aside from the obvious other risks negligence and the procedure itself present when they're deciding on the surgery. Most of us have accepted it now, inevitably some of us will regret it forever.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994722 Short men prone to suicide as height decrease, a few cm increase in height led to a substantial drop in suicide rate.
https://www.redorbit.com/news/health/188666/short_height_linked_to_increased_suicide_risk/
All I can say is CLL probably saves hundreds of lives of men that might have killed themselves otherwise, it's just the way it is.
Quote from: ZUCC420 on May 27, 2018, 07:30:04 PM
The argument could be made that since we don't live in the cave days where we would need to be taller and stronger to survive and protect (run faster, cover more ground), nevertheless height and long limbs are a vital health indicator, tallness is associated with better athleticism (there are studies on this), shorter guys may be stronger because of stumpy limbs capable of exerting more force but it's negligible, more often then not the taller guy might be stronger because of the large torso size, thicker bones.
And this outdated biological lust will stay for a long time before humanity finally evolves into a more sxxless cerebral logical beings, until then it's pointless to even vindicate about this. Maybe the society of first world countries does reinforce the taller the better theme but it's ingrained deeply and intrinsically onto human beings, take my third world country for example; here taller guys are seen as successful aristocrats despite nothing indicating of such.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994722 Short men prone to suicide as height decrease, a few cm increase in height led to a substantial drop in suicide rate.
https://www.redorbit.com/news/health/188666/short_height_linked_to_increased_suicide_risk/
All I can say is CLL probably saves hundreds of lives of men that might have killed themselves otherwise, it's just the way it is.
I agree with everything you wrote and i'm not turning a blind eye to the reality however the reality is clearly illogical and rigged.
And about the last part that is a fair assumption.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 27, 2018, 06:48:19 PMThe whole alpha/beta talk is ridiculous to me. How would anyone ever TRULY prove it other than to focus on a mans performance in his life? Are we fighting in coliseums and killing for our food? I mean come on lol.
Who is "we"? Maybe you don't physically fight for survival, but plenty of people around the globe still do. This isn't limited to soldiers or mercenaries either. I've been in more than my fair share of fights (again because of my height - nobody wants to fk with tall guys, EVERYONE wants to fk with short ones) throughout my life where I stood a very good chance of being killed, especially in my earlier youth (high school). I lost a good deal of fights I could've won if I had the extra leverage, arm length, and weight conferred by taller stature. I had to run for my life plenty of times, ended up bruised and bloodied plenty of times, barely escaped being hospitalized plenty of times.
I'm not the only one, either. Plenty of other short guys I knew had similar experiences, some even ended up attempting suicide because of it, and one succeeded.
QuoteAnd if you focused on performance there would be countless shorter guys that are more "alpha" than taller ones. So it obviously can't be that.
"Countless" is a strange word to use here. It isn't really fair to compare the top percentile short men to the bottom percentile tall ones. By that same logic, there are "countless" taller guys that are more "alpha" than shorter ones, since statistically speaking the average tall man will be stronger, have a longer reach, have superior leverage, and have a huge mass advantage over a short one.
ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, a tall man is highly statistically likely to perform better at any strength, power, or combat sport or endeavor than a shorter one. This is what matters.
I can think of very few sports or physical endeavors of any kind where being taller (at least up to a point) isn't a straight upgrade over being shorter. Irrelevant ones like jockeying and bodybuilding (only a "sport" in the most technical of ways, since it's really more of a beauty contest than an actual competition), maybe.
QuoteIt's just false interpretation and social stigma that we are battling. Not reality. Men a few inches taller are NOT more "masculine" in any objective way other than how they're interpreted socially based on outdated biological wiring in our brains.
Whether it's "outdated" or not is irrelevant (even though it isn't, as I pointed out already). A fundamental part of how people define masculinity is physical power, and larger men have more of it on average because they are more massive. Period, end of story. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, "masculinity" isn't defined on arbitrary made-up """personality""" bullsh*t like "confidence". It's defined based on PHYSICAL traits, like having a large penis, being highly dimorphic, having masculine facial features, etc.
You can say being taller has nothing to do with "masculinity" and instead define your own version of "masculinity", but then you're just making sh*t up (like you claim other people are). There is no reality independent of your surroundings. No man is an island. If I put a dress, a wig, high heels and make-up on and walk outside, I can think I'm the most "masculine" man on earth, but as far as anyone who sees me is concerned, I'm a nancy-boy homosexual and the farthest thing from masculinity, and it's their beliefs about me that's going to ultimately affect my quality of life, because it'll affect the way I'm treated in society, whereas my belief won't affect a thing.
And...
QuoteIt's APPEARING more masculine so you can BE more masculine in the eyes of others. The goalposts are adjusted, and the definitions are twisted just like the word "racism" these days. We are just stooping down to the dumb game.
That's all being taller is and does for you. And that's admittedly important since no matter what other logical steps you take to be more "manly" you will be judged by your height first and foremost. So it's a smart move to play the game and want to be taller in this day in age since it's judged so heavily whether logically or not.
You appear to realize this yourself.
Quote from: extremis on May 28, 2018, 05:13:46 AMWho is "we"? Maybe you don't physically fight for survival, but plenty of people around the globe still do. This isn't limited to soldiers or mercenaries either. I've been in more than my fair share of fights (again because of my height - nobody wants to fk with tall guys, EVERYONE wants to fk with short ones) throughout my life where I stood a very good chance of being killed, especially in my earlier youth (high school). I lost a good deal of fights I could've won if I had the extra leverage, arm length, and weight conferred by taller stature. I had to run for my life plenty of times, ended up bruised and bloodied plenty of times, barely escaped being hospitalized plenty of times.
I'm not the only one, either. Plenty of other short guys I knew had similar experiences, some even ended up attempting suicide because of it, and one succeeded.
"Countless" is a strange word to use here. It isn't really fair to compare the top percentile short men to the bottom percentile tall ones. By that same logic, there are "countless" taller guys that are more "alpha" than shorter ones, since statistically speaking the average tall man will be stronger, have a longer reach, have superior leverage, and have a huge mass advantage over a short one.
ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, a tall man is highly statistically likely to perform better at any strength, power, or combat sport or endeavor than a shorter one. This is what matters.
I can think of very few sports or physical endeavors of any kind where being taller (at least up to a point) isn't a straight upgrade over being shorter. Irrelevant ones like jockeying and bodybuilding (only a "sport" in the most technical of ways, since it's really more of a beauty contest than an actual competition), maybe.
Whether it's "outdated" or not is irrelevant (even though it isn't, as I pointed out already). A fundamental part of how people define masculinity is physical power, and larger men have more of it on average because they are more massive. Period, end of story. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, "masculinity" isn't defined on arbitrary made-up """personality""" bullsh*t like "confidence". It's defined based on PHYSICAL traits, like having a large penis, being highly dimorphic, having masculine facial features, etc.
You can say being taller has nothing to do with "masculinity" and instead define your own version of "masculinity", but then you're just making sh*t up (like you claim other people are). There is no reality independent of your surroundings. No man is an island. If I put a dress, a wig, high heels and make-up on and walk outside, I can think I'm the most "masculine" man on earth, but as far as anyone who sees me is concerned, I'm a nancy-boy homosxxual and the farthest thing from masculinity, and it's their beliefs about me that's going to ultimately affect my quality of life, because it'll affect the way I'm treated in society, whereas my belief won't affect a thing.
And...
You appear to realize this yourself.
What were you doing that in high school you had people basically attempting to kill you? Surely this isn't solely due to your short stature? Yes, shorter men being picked on in high school is common practice...But people attacking and physically fighting them for that reason? It's much more rare.
I mean theres not much for me to say about the definitions point. You're right about the masculine definition but at the end of the day I strongly believe that a focus on performance is a better marker to indicate whether someone is "alpha" or not than their height. I understand it's great that I can think that but it's simply not true....But
It's just that if anything tragically goes wrong as far as the LL procedure, or even my trips to a different country or the recovery process it will warm my coffin knowing that all I did was try to improve myself and level the playing field in a rigged society I didn't choose to be born into.
I think someone believing at a shorter height that they're very masculine because they're a high performance person and in great shape etc. is not someone deluding themselves. It's someone logically seeing that everything that SHOULD matter is in order and they've lived life the best they can with what they were given. It's something to be proud of, all of their accomplishments and achievements shouldn't be dwarfed nullified by their shorter stature.
This isn't the reality for me ^ I will always feel bitterness and resentment even at 5'6.5-5'7" towards loving family members who have done nothing but good for me. I cannot help it because mind wandering, what-ifs, psychological rumination.
I have discussed with my parents only out of everyone in the world and they would even want to help pay for me but told me to accept whatever happens that if i'm cripple etc. It was my choice and they couldn't talk me out of it. I will definitely be devastated more for them than myself if anything were to ever happen like that...Especially since they contributed money and worked hard only to help fix my psychological issues that are killing me but ends in a tragedy.
Due to this i'm heavily weighing whether I should pay for the process in full by myself and leave my family out of it. However it will take much longer and I will be older and older.
When I go through my procedure i'm gonna make a very detailed log and meet up with as many people here that are willing as possible. Sometimes i'd like to bring encouragement and happiness to many of the shorter communities of men but the reality is that the efforts are futile because it will never fix the problem and only worsen it. I can never help these people unless I could make them taller.
Quote from: extremis on May 28, 2018, 05:13:46 AM I've been in more than my fair share of fights (again because of my height - nobody wants to fk with tall guys, EVERYONE wants to fk with short ones) throughout my life where I stood a very good chance of being killed, especially in my earlier youth (high school). I lost a good deal of fights I could've won if I had the extra leverage, arm length, and weight conferred by taller stature. I had to run for my life plenty of times, ended up bruised and bloodied plenty of times, barely escaped being hospitalized plenty of times.
Brings back memories, all the fights that I have ever been in my life (all in highschool) was because the "other guy" wanted to take me out cause I seemed "easy", high school where nothing is censored, every human emotion/expression isn't being impeded by "societal standards", basically a jungle that comprises of a glorifying social hierarchy.
I was a social outcast and a nerd which didn't help a bit except when the other guys forced me to show my homework, help them cheat,etc. Soon being frustrated I made a ploy, I purposely failed so that accordingly my parents will admit me to board examinations instead of schools/colleges which thankfully succeeded after a little bit of convincing.
@extremis can you elaborate about the times you were going to get "killed" in your youth, sounds like a warzone dude I really want to know.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 28, 2018, 05:57:45 AMYou're right about the masculine definition but at the end of the day I strongly believe that a focus on performance is a better marker to indicate whether someone is "alpha" or not than their height.
What do you mean by performance? Sounds like your talking about intellect rather than masculinity.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 28, 2018, 05:57:45 AMI have discussed with my parents only out of everyone in the world and they would even want to help pay for me but told me to accept whatever happens that if i'm cripple etc. It was my choice and they couldn't talk me out of it. I will definitely be devastated more for them than myself if anything were to ever happen like that...Especially since they contributed money and worked hard only to help fix my psychological issues that are killing me but ends in a tragedy.
Don't think so negatively, If you want to avoid any major complications/risks then you have to go to an expensive renowned doctor. Your issues should be dealing with the reactions of your relatives about your sudden growth spurt, It will be so embarrassing if they find out.
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