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Posted on Dec 24, 2023, 3:06 pm
#41
Quote from: Leonard Shelby on December 23, 2023, 11:01:31 AMYou might consider getting tattooed on them or look into some laser therapy, but I haven't thought that far.

However, speaking of looking better, longer tibias definitely look more aesthetic than longer femurs. In fact, you would most probably end up looking weird after femur lengthening. Imagine, that your knee lines stay the same height.

It's another worthy advantage of tibia lengthening that is often overlooked.

Well, I imagine what the other LL veteran above has pointed out that the discomfort from internal nail would be the physical pain of having the nail inside your bones. I actually feel discomfort already just by reading it.

I don't really have to imagine any of this as I've done femur lengthening.

Agree tibias are more aesthetic (although femurs get you more height which I'd say is much more important). Regarding the pain of an internal nail, to be honest I didn't feel much pain at all post-surgery. Certainly not any pain from the nail being in the bone canal. The main pain came towards the the of lengthening where I was trying to grind out those extra few millimetres, and I was using a gnail so the twisting of the leg was quite painful towards the end (last couple of weeks). That wouldn't apply with Precise. I recognise everyone's experience is different though.

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Posted on Dec 24, 2023, 4:11 pm
#42
Quote from: Sorcerer on December 23, 2023, 05:29:19 AMIndeed studies beat anecdotes

Theoretically, though as has been evidenced multiple times over, people here rarely have the skill set required to interpret them correctly.
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Posted on Dec 25, 2023, 4:11 am
#43
 
   How was your experience with giotikas and gnail?.. want it for the next year
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Posted on Dec 25, 2023, 7:08 am
#44
Quote from: jbfjbj4 on December 24, 2023, 03:06:55 PMI don't really have to imagine any of this as I've done femur lengthening.

Agree tibias are more aesthetic (although femurs get you more height which I'd say is much more important). Regarding the pain of an internal nail, to be honest I didn't feel much pain at all post-surgery. Certainly not any pain from the nail being in the bone canal. The main pain came towards the the of lengthening where I was trying to grind out those extra few millimetres, and I was using a gnail so the twisting of the leg was quite painful towards the end (last couple of weeks). That wouldn't apply with Precise. I recognise everyone's experience is different though.
You don't get much more height in reality with femurs.
For 8cm, which is the upper safety limit, you get about 7.2cm in reality due.to the curvature of femur bone. With tibias you can get all the 6.5cm (which is the upper safety limit).
Ok 0,7 cm is a difference but not so.significant compared to how cheaper are external tibias and with a relatively very good safety profile for LL which of course is a not a safety cosmetic surgery compared to almost any other one.
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Posted on Dec 25, 2023, 10:23 pm
#45
with 8cm lengthened most people “lose” 2 to 3 mm, although this may depend on the angle at which the surgeon inserts the nail



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Posted on Dec 25, 2023, 10:35 pm
#46
there are cons and pros of external vs internals, but imo internals are overall better because

cons: with external the psychological and social aspect of having bulky frame for 9 or up to 12 months is underestimated. superficial infection almost guaranteed and a lot more scars

pros: cheaper and easier to correct deformities

Replying to op: the logic of most suregons is the risk of serious infection with externals, it is unacceptable for aesthetic purposes, at least in the US and most of Europe

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Posted on Dec 25, 2023, 10:38 pm
#47
im currently watching game of thrones. season 5 rn haha about to finish it then onto my next series. alot of tv series during LL
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Posted on Dec 26, 2023, 6:58 pm
#48
Quote from: JON SNOW on December 25, 2023, 10:35:50 PMthere are cons and pros of external vs internals, but imo internals are overall better because

cons: with external the psychological and social aspect of having bulky frame for 9 or up to 12 months is underestimated. superficial infection almost guaranteed and a lot more scars

pros: cheaper and easier to correct deformities

Replying to op: the logic of most suregons is the risk of serious infection with externals, it is unacceptable for aesthetic purposes, at least in the US and most of Europe

People seems to forget that one usually doesnt have 60k or more to go internals or don’t want to travel to a third world country for months.
A big pros of externals that’s a lot understimated on this forum is that is a lot cheaper so you can afford it whill still staying in your country.
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Posted on Dec 27, 2023, 2:35 am
#49
Quote from: Leonard Shelby on December 21, 2023, 10:59:10 PMWe would think that if there was an advanced method, it would be something safer and less invasive.

But no, LL used to be a rather simple external method, just separate the the bones in a controlled manner and put the fixators on. Sadly, it's followed up by something a lot of more invasive that would only increase the chance of embolism complications where not only you have to break the bones, but also drill the fukc out of them.

I mean why on earth would you want to do that? (Except for femurs) The original LL (external method) is already dangerous and painful enough that most people won't even do it, the last thing we need is taking more unnecessary risks by doing it internally.

I wish that instead of them being so busy marketing PRECICE or Stryde or what ever the fukc it is called, more efforts and resources are allocated at the perfection of the already existing and superior external method to make it even safer that it has ever been.

More read on this: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=84060.msg265525


The premise of this entire thread is false.

Internals are safer, more convenient, leave less scarring, and have an overall faster recovery. ESPECIALLY for femurs.

For tibias and tibias only, there is an argument to be made that external is good enough. But, as I'm sure you already know by reading everything on this forum, it is recommended to do femurs over tibias. The only time one should really be doing tibias is if they are doing quad LL.



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Posted on Dec 28, 2023, 5:10 pm
#50
Quote from: JON SNOW on December 25, 2023, 10:35:50 PMthere are cons and pros of external vs internals, but imo internals are overall better because

cons: with external the psychological and social aspect of having bulky frame for 9 or up to 12 months is underestimated. superficial infection almost guaranteed and a lot more scars

pros: cheaper and easier to correct deformities

Replying to op: the logic of most suregons is the risk of serious infection with externals, it is unacceptable for aesthetic purposes, at least in the US and most of Europe


I would disagree and push back a little bit with some of the cons you referenced regarding externals. First of all, it is not necessary to wear the frames for 9-12 months. If you do LATN (Lengthening and Then Nailing) method, which is the one that I used, you remove the frames and insert an intramedullary internal fracture nail into your tibias immediately once you finish lengthening. That means you will only wear the frames for the lengthening period (approximately 3 months) rather than the 9-12-month period that you reference. I agree with you 100% that wearing frames for 9 months would be unbearable. I would not be able to do that. However, 3 months in frames is much easier to endure. Honestly, there was very little pain and I eventually got fairly used to the discomfort of the frames. The discomfort never fully goes away, but like with anything in life, the human spirit is remarkably resilient and we become accustomed to conditions that initially may appear quite unpleasant.

Regarding your 2nd point, infection is NOT guaranteed. It is certainly a risk, but you can reduce the risk if you are careful and follow the treatment protocol. I never had an infection once throughout my time in frames. I was very meticulous and systematic in keeping my pin sites clean. That is how I was personally able to avoid infections. Another patient who was in Athens with me and using external frames DID get an infection. However, he only got it once throughout his lengthening period and it was a relatively minor infection that the doctor immediately treated with oral antibiotics. It went away after a few days and I don't think it even disrupted his lengthening (although perhaps he stopped lengthening for 2-3 days while the infection was being treated).

So yes, wearing externals is psychologically difficult. I agree with you there! it certainly took me a while to get used to them. And I was counting down the days until I finished lengthening and would have them removed. But in my opinion, 3-4 months with externals is highly manageable assuming you follow some basic guidelines:

-Develop a good daily routine that keeps your mind off your frames
-Follow a good eating and physical therapy protocol
-Keep the pin sites clean by always having gauze and antiseptic in your apartment
-Be disciplined about cleaning your pinsites at least 3 times per week. I usually cleaned my pinsities immediately after a shower. I would shower and get water on my frames/ pinsites. Then immediately after the shower, I dried my pinsites with a hair dryer and cleaned them up nicely and reapplied the gauzes and antiseptic. The nursing team in Athens taught me how to do this and they personally came over to my hotel room and cleaned my pinsites for me at first until I was 100% comfortable doing this myself and I no longer needed them. 
-I also still showered every day, even on days I did not want to get the pinsites wet. You can also still take showers and not get your pinsites wet by wrapping a thick towel around your metal frames. That is what I did on the days that I still wanted to shower my upper body, but avoid having to clean my pinsites
-Finally, do consider an LATN method so you do not have to endure external frames for more than 3-4 months

For anyone who has additional questions on external frames (and/or internal femur lengthening), please feel free to respond to this thread. Or send me a DM if you have personal questions regarding your specific situation. I will try to help as best as I can. 
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