Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 12:47 am
#31
Have you done LL?
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I'm disappointed that even the top suregons favor internal method (Rant)
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 1:08 am
#32
Quote from: Leonard Shelby on December 22, 2023, 11:15:55 PMFor starters, Dr. Paley the GOAT had 2 embolism cases who almost died through internal method and he's the best in the world. Let that sink in. Now feel free to find us an embolism case through external method.
It's a common knowledge that the internal method has a higher risk of embolisms. The reason you don't see it mentioned often enough is the very reason that I made this thread. Most of the surgeons aren't very open about it but if you ask them this specifically and corner them enough, they'd have no choice but to admit it.
That's wonderful! Thanks for sharing man. Here's the type of answers that people are looking for coming to this thread.
The physical pain inside the femur does sound quite scary but unfortunately, still the only way for femoral lengthening.
It's not what I think. I'm not a surgeon but that's what the surgeons I spoke with told me. But one of the reasons might be the one that the poster above me has pointed out "Finally, having a surgeon who KNOWS how to properly attach the pins/ rods is critical if you do externals."
Yeah, been there, done that.
There's a relatively famous case in Korea where someone died from fat embolism doing externals like 8 years ago.
Right now lot of the popular surgeons here in Korea still offer externals but many of them recommend internals like most of the western Doctors. They are still doing externals mostly because it's lower cost and something more people can afford - a reason why there are still lot of people going to India/Egypt/Turkey for their surgery.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 3:25 am
#33
He is not, inventor of Internal method is Bliskunov who lived Ukraine!
Don't get confused and do not confuse people!
I would say - Paley improved that method and made it popular but not invented.
Interesting fact - fathers of LL, external and internal methods are from USSR.
Don't get confused and do not confuse people!
I would say - Paley improved that method and made it popular but not invented.
Interesting fact - fathers of LL, external and internal methods are from USSR.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 3:26 am
#34
I found an article about it: https://www.allkpop.com/buzz/2018/06/musical-actor-trainee-suddenly-dies-after-limb-lengthening-surgery and if it's the right one, it says "pulmonary thromboembolism" which is different from "fat embolism". A surgeon told me that the risks for PE are the same for both, the difference is the risks for FE.
That's why it's always important to go to the right clinic. No one says that external lengthening is risk-free. But safer? Hell, yes.
I found an interesting thread about a possible solution to PE: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83522.msg262082#msg262082
That's why it's always important to go to the right clinic. No one says that external lengthening is risk-free. But safer? Hell, yes.
I found an interesting thread about a possible solution to PE: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83522.msg262082#msg262082
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 5:29 am
#35
Well, I gotta agree with NailedLegs. Indeed studies beat anecdotes and whatever the forumers here say, even if they are LL veterans.
But yeah there is nothing wrong with doing exteral tibias, and I don't think it is not a bad decision to trade a lot of expenses for marginally higher risks.
But yeah there is nothing wrong with doing exteral tibias, and I don't think it is not a bad decision to trade a lot of expenses for marginally higher risks.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 9:29 am
#36
Quote from: Body Builder on December 22, 2023, 11:34:03 PMNobody talked.about femurs though.
And yes externals on tibias need a much more capable doctor than an internal nail. That's another reason many surgeons stick with internals.
More and easier money, thats all.
Seems to me in the thread no one was distinguishing between femurs and tibias.
I agree externals on tibias is 'safer', albeit it's much more uncomfortable and inconvenient, with a fair bit more scarring. These aren't just small things to be handwaved away though - patient comfort is going to be a big predicator for adherence to stretching and good mental health during the lengthening process and so will directly affect outcomes. Given we all do this surgery to 'look better', the scars from externals are of course another issue, particularly if you live in a warm climate where you'll be wearing shorts a lot.
On the flip side, yes safety is better in terms of major complications and it is of course cheaper.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 9:32 am
#37
Quote from: jbfjbj4 on December 23, 2023, 09:29:03 AMSeems to me in the thread no one was distinguishing between femurs and tibias.So this isn't some subjective opinion? External tibias is the safest form of LL when looking at the science?
I agree externals on tibias is 'safer', albeit it's much more uncomfortable and inconvenient, with a fair bit more scarring. These aren't just small things to be handwaved away though - patient comfort is going to be a big predicator for adherence to stretching and good mental health during the lengthening process and so will directly affect outcomes. Given we all do this surgery to 'look better', the scars from externals are of course another issue, particularly if you live in a warm climate where you'll be wearing shorts a lot.
On the flip side, yes safety is better in terms of major complications and it is of course cheaper.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 9:58 am
#38
Quote from: Kintaeryos on December 23, 2023, 09:32:47 AMSo this isn't some subjective opinion? External tibias is the safest form of LL when looking at the science?
Yes if we're talking about tibias only. But 'risk' and 'safety' are overused words. The vast majority of patients, both internal and external, have no serious complications. Whereas the discomfort from wearing fixators is guaranteed. As is the higher cost of internals. Those are the main factors to look at.
You've significantly more lifetime risk of dying in a car accident than getting a serious fat embolism with either method, and yet I bet you still drive your car and don't worry about it.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 11:01 am
#39
Quote from: jbfjbj4 on December 23, 2023, 09:29:03 AMSeems to me in the thread no one was distinguishing between femurs and tibias.
I agree externals on tibias is 'safer', albeit it's much more uncomfortable and inconvenient, with a fair bit more scarring. These aren't just small things to be handwaved away though - patient comfort is going to be a big predicator for adherence to stretching and good mental health during the lengthening process and so will directly affect outcomes. Given we all do this surgery to 'look better', the scars from externals are of course another issue, particularly if you live in a warm climate where you'll be wearing shorts a lot.
On the flip side, yes safety is better in terms of major complications and it is of course cheaper.
You might consider getting tattooed on them or look into some laser therapy, but I haven't thought that far.
However, speaking of looking better, longer tibias definitely look more aesthetic than longer femurs. In fact, you would most probably end up looking weird after femur lengthening. Imagine, that your knee lines stay the same height.
It's another worthy advantage of tibia lengthening that is often overlooked.
Quote from: jbfjbj4 on December 23, 2023, 09:58:28 AMWhereas the discomfort from wearing fixators is guaranteed.
Well, I imagine what the other LL veteran above has pointed out that the discomfort from internal nail would be the physical pain of having the nail inside your bones. I actually feel discomfort already just by reading it.
Posted on Dec 23, 2023, 4:15 pm
#40
At some point is stupid this discution, LL is not safe and it never willl be, period. You can have a better chance if is a good doctor, but still paley had patients with embolism, and halil had excellent results , so at this point is a matter of luck
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