Internal or External for tibias?

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Quote from: prakash419 on January 15, 2018, 07:17:22 AMmost of doctors ae thieves, in US all doctors are more than thieves - they are decoits who would sell their souls for money, majority of LL doctors are thieves in the world (including Donghoon) , Xia/Lee are biggest thieves

I wouldn't say most doctors are thieves. In the US, cost of living is much higher, and the stricter regulations make things more expensive -- increasing costs for everything from renting operating theaters, equipment, to medication. Litigation is not uncommon either, and costs may be raised in anticipation for such events. Let's not forget that the US healthcare system is also brutally unforgiving without insurance, which CLL (or any cosmetic surgery) doesn't qualify for.

Elsewhere in the world where living costs are lower, I'd say the the increased demand has put a strain on the doctor's workloads, and they've raised prices to dissuade less committed patients. CLL is relatively unknown, but more people are finding out about it every year. They can effectively make the same money without overworking themselves; we as patients don't want to increase risk for error by allowing doctors to take on a handful of surgeries per day either. The solution is to have more specialized doctors to increase supply, and hopefully the increase in demand for CLL and improved surgical methods/equipment will make that possible.

And let's not forget that state-of-the-art internal nails like PRECICE accounts for the bulk of the cost these days. Cost of raw materials doesn't add up to so much, but they have to factor in profit margin, R&D, employee salaries, FDA processing fees, etc. NuVasive isn't the enemy either, since revolutionary products tend to start with high prices to pay for its initial investment.

Here's an interesting article by Dr. Birkholtz from September 2017, precisely about his takeaways of being a doctor as well as becoming a businessman:
Orthopaedic surgery as a business - getting it right

In the end, doctors indeed want to make money, just like all of us. It is a profession and they spent a lot of resources to become an expert in their field. They're not operating a charity and they are not your friend; they don't owe us anything. CLL is a cosmetic surgery, so no one is forcing us to do it. Lucky for us we have the internet, we have airplanes, and we have a lot of doctors to fit our unique needs.

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Quote from: prakash419 on January 15, 2018, 07:17:22 AMmost of doctors ae thieves, in US all doctors are more than thieves - they are decoits who would sell their souls for money, majority of LL doctors are thieves in the world (including Donghoon) , Xia/Lee are biggest thieves

What gives you the right to make a statement like that?

A lot of these doctors contribute more to the world in one day then what you would contribute in your whole life

Just because you can't afford Paley that doesn't make a theif. Cosmetic LL is a LUXURY, not a right

You sound really entitled person, the world or doctors don't owe you anything, if you don't like the price don't get it, or go to a cheaper doctor

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Quote from: Zeo on January 15, 2018, 10:58:35 AMWhat gives you the right to make a statement like that?

A lot of these doctors contribute more to the world in one day then what you would contribute in your whole life

Just because you can't afford Paley that doesn't make a theif. Cosmetic LL is a LUXURY, not a right

You sound really entitled person, the world or doctors don't owe you anything, if you don't like the price don't get it, or go to a cheaper doctor

When you are paying high sums of money (maybe life savings)  and putting at risk your body,they owe you something.Or do you think that doctors like Sarin/Sringari ecc don't have to be blamed ?
When you're doing this kind of operation,your doctor should perform 110% of his possibilities
Prakash for once is right. The majority are thieves.Think about the nail's cost(maximum 10-15.000€) and they are charging ofte 60.000€+ for internals
And Paley belongs to that cathegory,asking 100.000€ and then being fired from Baltimore for malpractice and going to Florida where laws allow him to do everything he wants

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Quote from: The Dreamer on January 15, 2018, 11:25:15 AMWhen you are paying high sums of money (maybe life savings)  and putting at risk your body,they owe you something.Or do you think that doctors like Sarin/Sringari ecc don't have to be blamed ?
When you're doing this kind of operation,your doctor should perform 110% of his possibilities
Prakash for once is right. The majority are thieves.Think about the nail's cost(maximum 10-15.000€) and they are charging ofte 60.000€+ for internals
And Paley belongs to that cathegory,asking 100.000€ and then being fired from Baltimore for malpractice and going to Florida where laws allow him to do everything he wants

First of all you're twisting my words, of course once you pay them, they have an obligation to do their best. Also I am specifically arguing against the point that "Dr.Paley/Rozbruch are theives for charging 100k for LL". I'm not talking about other doctors. I am just talking about the price with these specific doctors.

First of all something is worth what one is willing to pay for it. And just because you are paying 100k for a surgery that only lasts a few hours you need to realize that you are also paying for the DECADES of training and studying and learning that it took to get them to that point of expertise. It's like saying that a tattoo artist should only charge you 50$ for a expert tattoo because you only used 30$ worth of ink.

Also have you listened to some of Dr. Paley's presentations? People literally fly in their children in from all over the world becuase while other ortho surgeons recommended amputation, he was actually able to save the child's limb and function. He fixes children's limb deformities/saves childrens limbs and changes the lives of people with immense bone deformities all of the time. Think about that when you read Prakash saying that Paley is a "deceit who would sell his soul for money".

The biggest problem of people here is that they arn't getting laid as much as they would like. Boo fcking hoo. It a blessing that these doctors decide to do cosmetic LL at all.

Just because they have the skill set, it does not mean they have an obligation to make their services available to you for cheap. This is what I mean by they owe you nothing. And this is why I am saying that prakash/you are entitled. You think they have an obligation to make LL available to you on your low budget just because your insecure about your height. 

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Quote from: The Dreamer on January 15, 2018, 11:25:15 AMPrakash for once is right. The majority are thieves.Think about the nail's cost(maximum 10-15.000€) and they are charging ofte 60.000€+ for internals

PRECICE costs approximately 15,000€ PER NAIL, price can increase further depending on country due to import taxes and other factors. Unless you are only lengthening one leg, the cost to the doctor just to order the nails for surgery is approximately 30,000€.

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Quote from: Zeo on January 15, 2018, 03:20:00 PMAlso have you listened to some of Dr. Paley's presentations? People literally fly in their children in from all over the world becuase while other ortho surgeons recommended amputation, he was actually able to save the child's limb and function. He fixes children's limb deformities/saves childrens limbs and changes the lives of people with immense bone deformities all of the time. Think about that when you read Prakash saying that Paley is a "deceit who would sell his soul for money".

Paley was fired from Baltimore for several malpractices.Was FIRED,what is not clear from those words ? But no one talks about it
From one that requires 100.000€ it is unacceptable
As was well documented by Tibike200,he went to Florida because it is the only state that hasn't laws against malpractice
But still here there is the worship for him and I don't understand why(maybe promoters ?)
I also hate this attitude of genuflexion towards doctors considering them like gods.They are humans and if they made mistakes,they have to pay.This is not a game
And leave out my budget,you don't have idea what are you talking about neither it was the subject of the discussion.

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Quote from: Stadiometers on January 15, 2018, 04:19:13 PMPRECICE costs approximately 13,000€-15,000€ PER NAIL, price can increase further depending on country due to import taxes and other factors. Unless you are only lengthening one leg, the cost to the doctor just to order the nails for surgery is approximately 30,000€.

Well,let's say nails cost 30.000€.And other +70.000€ that are required by him how are explained ?
You will say clinical costs(that are nuts) and skills,experience ecc.
Every doctor is allowed to make what price he wants.But I'm also free to say that price is out of world,considering that the doctor has made mistakes in past and for me who asks 100.000€+ should be literally a machine.
So in this case I fully agree with Prakash

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Quote from: The Dreamer on January 15, 2018, 04:57:40 PMPaley was fired from Baltimore for several malpractices.Was FIRED,what is not clear from those words ? But no one talks about it

In the U.S. medical malpractice lawsuits are public record, easily searchable online. If that's true you should provide the links to these lawsuits. A lot of patients considering Dr. Paley might change their mind.

Quote from: The Dreamer on January 15, 2018, 04:57:40 PMAs was well documented by Tibike200, he went to Florida because it is the only state that hasn't laws against malpractice

Your statement is incorrect. Every state in the U.S. has laws regarding medical malpractice and the patients ability to file a lawsuit. Specifics of the law simply vary by each individual state.

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Quote from: The Dreamer on January 15, 2018, 05:03:58 PMWell, let's say nails cost 30.000€. And other +70.000€ that are required by him how are explained? 100,000€ is unacceptable. 100,000€ should be literally a machine.

Dr. Paley charges a total of 73,300€ to lengthen both femurs including 5 days per week physical therapy.

If you do not have U.S. health insurance Dr. Rozbruch charges a total of 81,500€ to lengthen both femurs, that price does not include physical therapy. If you have U.S. health insurance the price can be significantly lowered with Dr. Rozbruch to only 40,000€. One of the cheapest options available anywhere in the world for PRECICE.

Considering the astronomical cost of healthcare in the United States, it could easily be argued the prices by these doctors are justifiable. Particularly when you factor in the cost of the hospital stay, operating room, surgical and nursing staff, malpractice insurance, etc...All costs the doctor has no control over. In fact, the only cost a doctor has any control over is the surgeon fee. 

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Quote from: Stadiometers on January 15, 2018, 05:13:06 PMIn the U.S. medical malpractice lawsuits are public record, easily searchable online. If that's true you should provide the links to these lawsuits. A lot of patients considering Dr. Paley might change their mind.

Your statement is incorrect. Every state in the U.S. has laws regarding medical malpractice and the patients ability to file a lawsuit. Specifics of the law simply vary by each individual state.

Here is the discussion where there are documents speaking about this:
www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=3501.0;wap2
Page 2:the lawsuits that were faced by Paley
Page 5:description of the legal system in Florida