QuoteYou guys are having a futile conversation with an incel who took the height obsession of the LL community to a whole new level. While I try to be respectful of all opinions, especially different than mine, he clearly has no idea what it means or takes to attract a woman. I don't say it because I'm an expert, but because people who are far more successful than me will speak very different about the subject. Thinking the only thing a woman can tell about you is your face and height without talking to you is just ridiculous and a clear sign of his extremely limited understanding of psychology and human behaviour, among other things.
Please don't give him more attention. He's spreading information that's "wrong" at best, and sometimes at the verge of being illegal (see his ideas about funding LL through credit card debt). There is no point in having a conversation with him because he's clearly set on his ways and have 0 openness to any other idea / opinion.
From seeing his posts in other threads, have to agree. I'm gonna stop responding to this clown.
Quote from: ballsackoffury123 on April 26, 2023, 05:52:55 PMNo one is disqualifying your point. Attracting and your value as a man is a complimentary of all your assets. Your personality, your wittiness, your face, your family, your HEIGHT. You can go start doing an improv class and be better at conversations and I'm sure girls will like you more. You can work hard at your job and earn $5 mil and I'm sure girls will like you more. You can also gain 3.15 inches in height, even at 5'9 and I'm sure girls will like you more.
And height isnt just about girls. People will respect you more in general. You go talk to 2 male strangers. One thats 5 inches below and one thats 5 inches above you. See how the dynamic of the conversation changes.
And appearance is important because people usually cant tell you're rich off the bat until they get to conversate with you. Do you think at a club a girl can see you and go like, oh that guy must be really smart and funny. No all she gets is your height and what your face (in the dark) looks like. And thats what she has to go off with to start the conversation with you and dance with you. It's almost like your appearearnce is the resume to get the interview. And everything else like your personality and how successful you are as a person is what happens in the actual interview to see if you get the job.
+1
Quote from: hippo60 on April 26, 2023, 06:55:39 PMDude what is that obsession with clubs? How often do you go to clubs? I'm willing to bet the number of people on this forum who go once a week is in the single digits. And even in clubs, you think your behavior doesn't matter? Or how well you're dressed / groomed? Again, height is very (!!!) important, but saying that confidence doesn't have any impact on attraction is beyond ridiculous.
And if that's not enough, I'm pretty sure most people meet today through dating apps, not clubs. Your height is important, but it's also "just" a number on a screen. You still have a lot of work to do.
Confidence can be derived from height, though. You bet your ass you'd get a self-esteem boost if a random girl makes a move on you in a dark crowded club where the only thing she go off of from you is your appearance. I get that personality matters but looks (face,height,body) and confidence are not mutually exclusive. You're not really doing yourself a disservice by becoming taller than what you were before. Essentially, you're just increasing your overall attractiveness which is part of the "entire package" that people always talk about when it comes to attraction.
These dogs don't get it and never will.
Say how 5ft 9 to 6ft is a boost and some hound is like "if you can't get a girl at 5ft 9 you won't be slaying at 6ft".
Of course your face matters at any height you utter cretins. But the way to judge the value of a surgery (or anything) is KEEPING ALL OTHER VARIABLES THE SAME.
There is no 5ft 9 man on Earth that wouldn't receive a boost from being 6ft. His potential dating pool widens. That goes no matter how much success or lack thereof he had at his former 5ft 9 height. Barking about face, confidence, money, game, or whatever else fking misses the point: no matter how much or little of that you have, the version of you that is 6ft will do better than the version of you at 5ft 9.
Quote from: Confidence on April 26, 2023, 10:06:53 PMConfidence can be derived from height, though. You bet your ass you'd get a self-esteem boost if a random girl makes a move on you in a dark crowded club where the only thing she go off of from you is your appearance. I get that personality matters but looks (face,height,body) and confidence are not mutually exclusive. You're not really doing yourself a disservice by becoming taller than what you were before. Essentially, you're just increasing your overall attractiveness which is part of the "entire package" that people always talk about when it comes to attraction.
Quote from: p00293 on April 26, 2023, 10:17:27 PMThere is no 5ft 9 man on Earth that wouldn't receive a boost from being 6ft. His potential dating pool widens. That goes no matter how much success or lack thereof he had at his former 5ft 9 height. Barking about face, confidence, money, game, or whatever else fking misses the point: no matter how much or little of that you have, the version of you that is 6ft will do better than the version of you at 5ft 9.
I'm quoting both of you because my answer is essentially the same. Do I think being taller makes someone more attractive? 100% yes. Do I think that's true for a 5'9" guy going to 6ft? 100%. Do I think he's going to do better with women because of that? To a degree, yes. But these questions are easy, the real (and fairly hard to answer) question is - how much better is he going to do? I'm willing to bet the answer is a lot lower than you'd like to believe.
And then of course, in order to consider whether something is worth it, we have to consider the costs (and potential downside/issues) as well. There are huge financial, physical, and emotional costs to LL. Not to mention a huge time commitment as well.
So the question is, does that insane cost outweighs the increased attractiveness (and self confidence, and some other things you're likely to gain)? Unlike some people here, I believe the answer is very personal, and impossible for others to answer for you.
p00293, being overly obsessed with height and dating, will lead you to believe it's 100% worth it for everyone at 5'9". For some reason, he made the decision that the cut off is 5'10", but who knows maybe next week he'll think the cut off it actually 6ft.
There is a reason why the average height of people who do LL is BELOW AVERAGE. Average isn't bad, most people are around average height. If you want to improve your dating life, and you're average height - you can most likely find things other than LL that can help you, at a fraction of the cost. While being taller will make you more attractive, it's very unlikely that your height is setting you back.
Quote from: hippo60 on April 26, 2023, 10:42:15 PMI'm quoting both of you because my answer is essentially the same. Do I think being taller makes someone more attractive? 100% yes. Do I think that's true for a 5'9" guy going to 6ft? 100%. Do I think he's going to do better with women because of that? To a degree, yes. But these questions are easy, the real (and fairly hard to answer) question is - how much better is he going to do? I'm willing to bet the answer is a lot lower than you'd like to believe.
And then of course, in order to consider whether something is worth it, we have to consider the costs (and potential downside/issues) as well. There are huge financial, physical, and emotional costs to LL. Not to mention a huge time commitment as well.
So the question is, does that insane cost outweighs the increased attractiveness (and self confidence, and some other things you're likely to gain)? Unlike some people here, I believe the answer is very personal, and impossible for others to answer for you.
p00293, being overly obsessed with height and dating, will lead you to believe it's 100% worth it for everyone at 5'9". For some reason, he made the decision that the cut off is 5'10", but who knows maybe next week he'll think the cut off it actually 6ft.
There is a reason why the average height of people who do LL is BELOW AVERAGE. Average isn't bad, most people are around average height. If you want to improve your dating life, and you're average height - you can most likely find things other than LL that can help you, at a fraction of the cost. While being taller will make you more attractive, it's very unlikely that your height is setting you back.
Yeah, the problem here is we're all arguing about the cost to benefit ratio of LL when that decision is completely subjective and personal. It's my personal opinion to believe that it's still worth it at 5'9 because the benefits:
- better chance at alleviating height dysphoria induced from social interactions forever
- improved overall attractiveness
- more respect from other men
- more "everyday confidence" from the way people subconsciously act towards you
- more respect in a corporate setting
- less anxiety about future generations becoming much taller than you even after height shrinkage due to old age
- less chance of height dysphoria when travelling to places where people are typically taller than where you're normally from (netherlands)
completely outweigh all the costs of getting it done. I don't know about the rest of you but I'd happily invest the time in my life grinding out the financial costs and risking potential complications if it means I could have all those benefits for the rest of my life.
Quote from: hippo60 on April 26, 2023, 10:42:15 PMI'm quoting both of you because my answer is essentially the same. Do I think being taller makes someone more attractive? 100% yes. Do I think that's true for a 5'9" guy going to 6ft? 100%. Do I think he's going to do better with women because of that? To a degree, yes. But these questions are easy, the real (and fairly hard to answer) question is - how much better is he going to do? I'm willing to bet the answer is a lot lower than you'd like to believe.
And then of course, in order to consider whether something is worth it, we have to consider the costs (and potential downside/issues) as well. There are huge financial, physical, and emotional costs to LL. Not to mention a huge time commitment as well.
So the question is, does that insane cost outweighs the increased attractiveness (and self confidence, and some other things you're likely to gain)? Unlike some people here, I believe the answer is very personal, and impossible for others to answer for you.
p00293, being overly obsessed with height and dating, will lead you to believe it's 100% worth it for everyone at 5'9". For some reason, he made the decision that the cut off is 5'10", but who knows maybe next week he'll think the cut off it actually 6ft.
There is a reason why the average height of people who do LL is BELOW AVERAGE. Average isn't bad, most people are around average height. If you want to improve your dating life, and you're average height - you can most likely find things other than LL that can help you, at a fraction of the cost. While being taller will make you more attractive, it's very unlikely that your height is setting you back.
You don't know what I'd "like to believe", but the evidence is pretty clear from studies on the matter that being taller will increase your options pretty much linearly from 5ft 6 to 5ft 10, then a decent amount from 5ft 10 to 6ft, and then a negligible small amount after that, and finally starts harming you at around 6ft 6. There was another study that saud women are happiest when their partner is 21cm taller than themselves - so taking the average height of young women in 2023, thatd be around 186-188cm in Europe, around 182cm in Asia, and about the same 182 in South America. Which is why 5ft 10 (and gaining 3 inches to be 6ft 1) is what I deem the cut off to be. It's based on science, and is a pleasing height to the overall majority of women no matter where in the world you are without getting into diminishing returns territory.
Average isn't bad but by definition it isn't good either. Going from short to average is better than going from average to tall but going from average to tall is still going to be worth it.
There's no reason one cannot do LL and do these "other things that will help you" too. If you've got a terrible jawline or you're balding, absolutely they should be fixed with surgery too, but this isn't an either/or thing, you should indeed "fix" them all to give yourself the best chances. If you don't have the money to do everything you need at once, then obviously pick the most important ones and come back to the others later.
Quote from: p00293 on April 26, 2023, 11:10:38 PMYou don't know what I'd "like to believe", but the evidence is pretty clear from studies on the matter that being taller will increase your options pretty much linearly from 5ft 6 to 5ft 10, then a decent amount from 5ft 10 to 6ft, and then a negligible small amount after that, and finally starts harming you at around 6ft 6. There was another study that saud women are happiest when their partner is 21cm taller than themselves - so taking the average height of young women in 2023, thatd be around 186-188cm in Europe, around 182cm in Asia, and about the same 182 in South America. Which is why 5ft 10 (and gaining 3 inches to be 6ft 1) is what I deem the cut off to be. It's based on science, and is a pleasing height to the overall majority of women no matter where in the world you are without getting into diminishing returns territory.
Average isn't bad but by definition it isn't good either. Going from short to average is better than going from average to tall but going from average to tall is still going to be worth it.
There's no reason one cannot do LL and do these "other things that will help you" too. If you've got a terrible jawline or you're balding, absolutely they should be fixed with surgery too, but this isn't an either/or thing, you should indeed "fix" them all to give yourself the best chances. If you don't have the money to do everything you need at once, then obviously pick the most important ones and come back to the others later.
You literally just said it's linearly up to 5'10" but only decent amount beyond (which makes total sense to me), yet you think someone at 5'10" needs to do LL. For me the conclusion is that 5'7" is the "clear cut off", but at 5'8"-5'10" it's beneficial but definitely not as clear.
Women are also happiest when they can go shopping all the time and their partner makes $500k annually. So if you don't - you're doomed? Of course not. Of course they prefer a taller guy, but they're not going to reject someone because he's average height. Sure, some will do, just like some will only date someone over 6'2". Do you really need to go and break your legs for these women? I think the answer is no, but you're welcome to think differently.
I'm bald, and I don't want to fix it with a surgery. I'm perfectly fine with it, and perfectly ok that some women might not like me because of that. Fine. Most guys who are average height think it's insane to break your legs to get taller. There is a reason why so many of you are ashamed to tell anyone about LL. It seems unfathomable for most people, because they don't view height the way most of us do.
Quote from: Confidence on April 26, 2023, 10:58:56 PMcompletely outweigh all the costs of getting it done. I don't know about the rest of you but I'd happily invest the time in my life grinding out the financial costs and risking potential complications if it means I could have all those benefits for the rest of my life.
And that's fine! But you're assuming that someone has height dysphoria to begin with. I know it sounds strange because we're deep in our echo chambers here, but MOST PEOPLE DO NOT SUFFER from height dysphoria anywhere near us. Do they sometimes think about their height? Maybe. Do they wish they were slightly taller? You bet. Would they want to break their legs and go through all of that? Hell no.
Quote from: hippo60 on April 27, 2023, 12:45:33 AMYou literally just said it's linearly up to 5'10" but only decent amount beyond (which makes total sense to me), yet you think someone at 5'10" needs to do LL. For me the conclusion is that 5'7" is the "clear cut off", but at 5'8"-5'10" it's beneficial but definitely not as clear.
Women are also happiest when they can go shopping all the time and their partner makes $500k annually. So if you don't - you're doomed? Of course not. Of course they prefer a taller guy, but they're not going to reject someone because he's average height. Sure, some will do, just like some will only date someone over 6'2". Do you really need to go and break your legs for these women? I think the answer is no, but you're welcome to think differently.
I'm bald, and I don't want to fix it with a surgery. I'm perfectly fine with it, and perfectly ok that some women might not like me because of that. Fine. Most guys who are average height think it's insane to break your legs to get taller. There is a reason why so many of you are ashamed to tell anyone about LL. It seems unfathomable for most people, because they don't view height the way most of us do.
And that's fine! But you're assuming that someone has height dysphoria to begin with. I know it sounds strange because we're deep in our echo chambers here, but MOST PEOPLE DO NOT SUFFER from height dysphoria anywhere near us. Do they sometimes think about their height? Maybe. Do they wish they were slightly taller? You bet. Would they want to break their legs and go through all of that? Hell no.
Yes a "decent" amount WHICH IS STILL VERY MUCH WORTH HAVING. Its only when we start getting into small gains that I'd say it's not worth it - so basically anything taking you past 6ft 1 is a bit of a waste of time.
Another "you're doomed?" strawman I won't be responding to.
Sorry you joined the Norwood cemetery bro. No matter what copers try to tell you about muh Jason Statham and the Rock, the vast majority of young women prefer guys with hair. It's actually an even stronger preference than for height. You can choose not to care, or tell yourself you don't care, but these are the facts.
The only reason I'm "ashamed" to tell others is because women prefer to fk you because they believe you have good genes, so it simply wouldn't be to my advantage to let them know otherwise.
Average men suffer a hit to their dating life from being average, not tall. I don't accept its a "dysphoria" to acknowledge the very real advantages being tall gives in society, and plays into the hands of those cucks on reddit who would tell you to JUST GET THERAPY BRO. Before you bang on with another strawman, no I didn't say you can't have a good sex life at average height (or even if you're short, just that it'll be much harder than if you were tall).
Quote from: p00293 on April 27, 2023, 01:55:39 AMSorry you joined the Norwood cemetery bro. No matter what copers try to tell you about muh Jason Statham and the Rock, the vast majority of young women prefer guys with hair. It's actually an even stronger preference than for height. You can choose not to care, or tell yourself you don't care, but these are the facts.
The only reason I'm "ashamed" to tell others is because women prefer to fk you because they believe you have good genes, so it simply wouldn't be to my advantage to let them know otherwise.
No woman will want to touch you with a ten-foot pole, regardless of your height. You're insufferable, and an intellectual moron. I'm done.
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