Isn't it just body dysmorphia at the end of the day?

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 6:07 pm

#1

I know there have been a few discussions regarding this on here, but I feel they came at it from the standpoint of 'Body Dysmorphic Disorder' as a literal translation. The name isn't a great descriptor of the actual disorder, because to have the disorder doesn't mean you're identifying a problem that doesn't exist.

The disorder is classically attributed to people who have no actual flaw but think so anyway, when in actual fact, BDD is more categorized as an intense, obsessive preoccupation with an aspect of your physical appearance. Given this, you can be ugly or good-looking and still have BDD, meaning it's not down to whether or not the perceived defect is real or not.

If we consider this, I feel like LL definitely falls under this category. It certainly feels like it for me. There's no question that height has a massive impact on your life, and if you're short, you have things noticeably harder on a sliding scale. That reality doesn't preclude the diagnosis of BDD, though; I've seen it mentioned several times on here that LL isn't BDD because it marks a legitimate, objective reality, but that isn't how it works.

The vast majority of short men I know (who are much shorter than me) may not like their height, but if I were to bring up LL in front of them they'd think I was insane. They're not obsessing to the point where they would ever consider dropping thousands on a grueling operation to get taller, where I feel for many of us here, height has manifested as the primary concern in our lives. That's an obsession and surely comes under the bracket of BDD. No one without an obsession about this would ever consider going the lengths required to do LL. The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

--

I think this raises a particularly interesting discussion that applies to all types of cosmetic surgery but is far more serious when it comes to LL. Even if there is a disordered pattern of thinking, is it advisable to treat the acute obsession? or to tackle the mental health problem? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.

LL isn't a nose job. Therapy is often brushed off as an approach for treating people with height dysphoria, but should it really be so easily dismissed?

Edit Post

I know there have been a few discussions regarding this on here, but I feel they came at it from the standpoint of 'Body Dysmorphic Disorder' as a literal translation. The name isn't a great descriptor of the actual disorder, because to have the disorder doesn't mean you're identifying a problem that doesn't exist.

The disorder is classically attributed to people who have no actual flaw but think so anyway, when in actual fact, BDD is more categorized as an intense, obsessive preoccupation with an aspect of your physical appearance. Given this, you can be ugly or good-looking and still have BDD, meaning it's not down to whether or not the perceived defect is real or not.

If we consider this, I feel like LL definitely falls under this category. It certainly feels like it for me. There's no question that height has a massive impact on your life, and if you're short, you have things noticeably harder on a sliding scale. That reality doesn't preclude the diagnosis of BDD, though; I've seen it mentioned several times on here that LL isn't BDD because it marks a legitimate, objective reality, but that isn't how it works.

The vast majority of short men I know (who are much shorter than me) may not like their height, but if I were to bring up LL in front of them they'd think I was insane. They're not obsessing to the point where they would ever consider dropping thousands on a grueling operation to get taller, where I feel for many of us here, height has manifested as the primary concern in our lives. That's an obsession and surely comes under the bracket of BDD. No one without an obsession about this would ever consider going the lengths required to do LL. The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

--

I think this raises a particularly interesting discussion that applies to all types of cosmetic surgery but is far more serious when it comes to LL. Even if there is a disordered pattern of thinking, is it advisable to treat the acute obsession? or to tackle the mental health problem? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.

LL isn't a nose job. Therapy is often brushed off as an approach for treating people with height dysphoria, but should it really be so easily dismissed?

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Acemace86

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 8:26 pm

#2

You mention therapy but the ultimate solution is at the hands of a surgeon.

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NailedLegs

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 8:36 pm

#3

Quote from: Acemace86 on March 10, 2024, 08:26:07 PMYou mention therapy but the ultimate solution is at the hands of a surgeon.

This.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

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LG1816

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 9:16 pm

#4

Quote from: NailedLegs on March 10, 2024, 08:36:32 PMThis.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

Edit Post

Quote from: NailedLegs on March 10, 2024, 08:36:32 PMThis.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

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Acemace86

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 9:49 pm

#5

I would recommend this surgery for you as it will cure your height dysphoria. It senseless to over analyze this when there is a fix to height dysphoria. It’s not necessary to live with this burden.

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LG1816

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 9:51 pm

#6

I'm not sure I'd consider it 'senseless' to be wary of undergoing such a procedure for what is ultimately a cosmetic procedure.
There's certainly an argument for it, but I don't see it as the one-and-done solution people think it is considering the potential complications.

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Metaphyglv

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 10:10 pm

#7

Quote from: NailedLegs on March 10, 2024, 08:36:32 PM Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

Yeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

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Acemace86

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 10:11 pm

#8

It’s the silver bullet if done by a reputable surgeon.

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sxxa

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 10:59 pm

#9

Quote from: Metaphyglv on March 10, 2024, 10:10:36 PMYeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

I could say I fall in this description, however I must say, my height dysphoria truly makes me feel phisically sick. A deep sense of self awareness and discomfort, it's not nice to live like that tbh.

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NailedLegs

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Posted on Mar 10, 2024, 11:20 pm

#10

Quote from: LG1816 on March 10, 2024, 09:16:49 PM
But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.

Most Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)

"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which effects tall people too.

You have two options: Cope, or fix the problem.

Quote from: Acemace86 on March 10, 2024, 09:49:50 PMI would recommend this surgery for you as it will cure your height dysphoria. It senseless to over analyze this when there is a fix to height dysphoria. It’s not necessary to live with this burden.

Exactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

Quote from: LG1816 on March 10, 2024, 09:51:54 PMI'm not sure I'd consider it 'senseless' to be wary of undergoing such a procedure for what is ultimately a cosmetic procedure.
There's certainly an argument for it, but I don't see it as the one-and-done solution people think it is considering the potential complications.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners

Quote from: Metaphyglv on March 10, 2024, 10:10:36 PMYeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

Height is a sliding scale. The 5'8" guys do not have as much of an excuse as the 5'4" guy. But there are still some detriments to being 5'8" over even just 5'10", as the research shows. Alot of it comes down to, "Is it worth it to YOU?" If money is no factor? If time is no factor? If the physical pain, and mental pain of temporarily crippling yourself, is no factor? Why not? Why not do it at that point? Because of the very, very rare chance of an embolism? If that's your reasoning, OK fine, I'll accept that.

Edit Post

Quote from: LG1816 on March 10, 2024, 09:16:49 PM
But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.

Most Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)

"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which effects tall people too.

You have two options: Cope, or fix the problem.

Quote from: Acemace86 on March 10, 2024, 09:49:50 PMI would recommend this surgery for you as it will cure your height dysphoria. It senseless to over analyze this when there is a fix to height dysphoria. It’s not necessary to live with this burden.

Exactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

Quote from: LG1816 on March 10, 2024, 09:51:54 PMI'm not sure I'd consider it 'senseless' to be wary of undergoing such a procedure for what is ultimately a cosmetic procedure.
There's certainly an argument for it, but I don't see it as the one-and-done solution people think it is considering the potential complications.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners

Quote from: Metaphyglv on March 10, 2024, 10:10:36 PMYeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

Height is a sliding scale. The 5'8" guys do not have as much of an excuse as the 5'4" guy. But there are still some detriments to being 5'8" over even just 5'10", as the research shows. Alot of it comes down to, "Is it worth it to YOU?" If money is no factor? If time is no factor? If the physical pain, and mental pain of temporarily crippling yourself, is no factor? Why not? Why not do it at that point? Because of the very, very rare chance of an embolism? If that's your reasoning, OK fine, I'll accept that.

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