It's time 5'7 to 5'10

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Quote from: Bander72 on August 30, 2017, 12:34:50 PMBecause on low amounts like 5 cm they won't need to do atl. And it's been said before that he highly encourages people to do atl. And besides that he has a good reputation.

Basically, Catagni is the reason why ll has become known worldwide and has advanced to such level. Back like 40 years ago ll was only done in Russia in illizarov  institutes / hospitals etc...
When catagni went to Russia and learned the method he brought it back to Italy and started improving and teaching it because the traditional illizarov method was extremely painful and inconvenient. Most of the well known doctors today were catagni's students(e.g. Paley) or his students students, these doctors came from different countries to catagni because back then it was hard for many citizens to enter Russia let alone study there. So, catagni is definitely one of the best when it comes to external tibia. Salameh is also up there with catagni because he also studied in Russia around that period of time and developed his own external device(salamehfix), even the Russians admired his creation!   Paley and the newer doctors didn't focus on the external methods because they found them harsh and very inconvenient, that's why they focused on developing the internal methods. So, if you want to do external, best choices are catagni, salameh and the Russians. If you want to do internal then go for the newer doctors such as paley, guichet etc...

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Quote from: Cloudo on August 30, 2017, 02:44:58 PMBasically, Catagni is the reason why ll has become known worldwide and has advanced to such level. Back like 40 years ago ll was only done in Russia in illizarov  institutes / hospitals etc...
When catagni went to Russia and learned the method he brought it back to Italy and started improving and teaching it because the traditional illizarov method was extremely painful and inconvenient. Most of the well known doctors today were catagni's students(e.g. Paley) or his students students, these doctors came from different countries to catagni because back then it was hard for many citizens to enter Russia let alone study there. So, catagni is definitely one of the best when it comes to external tibia. Salameh is also up there with catagni because he also studied in Russia around that period of time and developed his own external device(salamehfix), even the Russians admired his creation!   Paley and the newer doctors didn't focus on the external methods because they found them harsh and very inconvenient, that's why they focused on developing the internal methods. So, if you want to do external, best choices are catagni, salameh and the Russians. If you want to do internal then go for the newer doctors such as paley, guichet etc...

Someone that does his research finally.

OT: Btw I PM'd you some cool info, look it up

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Quote from: GeTs on August 30, 2017, 03:02:59 PMSomeone that does his research finally.

OT: Btw I PM'd you some cool info, look it up

Thanks, I read them 

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Quote from: Bander72 on August 30, 2017, 12:34:50 PMBecause on low amounts like 5 cm they won't need to do atl. And it's been said before that he highly encourages people to do atl. And besides that he has a good reputation.

Exactly. For 5-6cm the strong majority of people don't need atl at all.
Catagni is a very good doctor in terms of LL but no, atl is a catastriphic surgery and no doctor should do it unless the patient doesn't have huge bf for years that does not improve.

So I suggest Catagni for LL and only. Not for atl. After all no doctor will do atl to you against your will. So somene could trust him for LL and everything that has to do with bones. Tendons is another subject.

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Catagni states that you won't never recover 100% if you don't do the ATL.
I also did my homework.In a Catagni's study(I have the PDF and i will upload it) it is said that 19 did the ATL and 1 not.All the patients fully recovered except the one that didn't ATL.
All those patients did at LEAST 5 cm of gain in lengthening.
Therefore ATL should be not required for increments below 5 cm,which are very poor and don't worth the risks.
Maybe your doctor performed a bad ATL but I also remember that crimsontide had problems.At this point one could say that maybe crimsontide's doc had done some mistakes.
Statistically speaking it would be 19 (ATL benefits) vs 2 (ATL dangers). But I also heard that many doctors disagree om this subject.
So what are the conclusions ? Basically we have contrasting infos and doctors opinions.Therefore until when ATL will be identified with certainty as a danger or a benefit,doing LL is a complete gamble

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Quote from: The Dreamer on August 30, 2017, 08:02:33 PMCatagni states that you won't never recover 100% if you don't do the ATL.
I also did my homework.In a Catagni's study(I have the PDF and i will upload it) it is said that 19 did the ATL and 1 not.All the patients fully recovered except the one that didn't ATL.
All those patients did at LEAST 5 cm of gain in lengthening.
Therefore ATL should be not required for increments below 5 cm,which are very poor and don't worth the risks.
Maybe your doctor performed a bad ATL but I also remember that crimsontide had problems.At this point one could say that maybe crimsontide's doc had done some mistakes.
Statistically speaking it would be 19 (ATL benefits) vs 2 (ATL dangers). But I also heard that many doctors disagree om this subject.
So what are the conclusions ? Basically we have contrasting infos and doctors opinions.Therefore until when ATL will be identified with certainty as a danger or a benefit,doing LL is a complete gamble

Why do you think <5cm is not worth it?

To me 4cm are fully worth it.

I'm 176-177.5 and it would put me at 180. Not to mention it would leave room for doing femurs later on in case I want to reach 184.

Altough for someone <170 I think doing anything less than 5cm is worse than in my case



OT: Before someone tries to insult me for wanting to do it at my height, you can dearly fk off  I won't change my mind

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Quote from: GeTs on August 30, 2017, 08:43:47 PMWhy do you think <5cm is not worth it?

To me 4cm are fully worth it.

I'm 176-177.5 and it would put me at 180. Not to mention it would leave room for doing femurs later on in case I want to reach 184.

Altough for someone <170 I think doing anything less than 5cm is worse than in my case

I agree, if I were to do Tibias I would do 4-4.5 cm's not more. I would go from 173 cm to 177-177.5 which is a big jump with regards to population height.

Do you guys think it matters whether one does Tibias or Femurs first, if the goal is Dual LL?

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Quote from: GeTs on August 30, 2017, 08:43:47 PMWhy do you think <5cm is not worth it?

To me 4cm are fully worth it.
I'm 176-177.5 and it would put me at 180. Not to mention it would leave room for doing femurs later on in case I want to reach 184.

Altough for someone <170 I think doing anything less than 5cm is worse than in my case



OT: Before someone tries to insult me for wanting to do it at my height, you can dearly fk off  I won't change my mind

We have basically the same height,around 176/177 cm,obviously I will not insulte you.
However I'm saying that even for less than 5 cm,there is no evidence if ATL is required or less.The Catagni's stydy was speaking about lengthening base 5 cm or upper.And I want to be sure at 100% if this ATL will weaken my tendon or not.We talk about our Health that is priceless.Ballerina foot or on the either side complication from ATL,are not a small problem.
Personally I think that less invasive surgery=less problems.And ATL seems a invasive surgery.But I'm not a surgeon and my opinion is worthless.The problem is that surgeons have contrasting views on this topic.
PS:Speaking for my self,I think doing 2 LL is simply a madness.Let's not forget the others complication involving LL such Fat Embolism which can be fatal.Catagni reported 1 death from embolism.
So if you manage to survive and recover from the first LL,doing an another would be simply a insanity.
If I have to do this,only 1 surgery and job done with this  .

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Quote from: The Dreamer on August 30, 2017, 08:02:33 PMCatagni states that you won't never recover 100% if you don't do the ATL.
I also did my homework.In a Catagni's study(I have the PDF and i will upload it) it is said that 19 did the ATL and 1 not.All the patients fully recovered except the one that didn't ATL.
All those patients did at LEAST 5 cm of gain in lengthening.
Therefore ATL should be not required for increments below 5 cm,which are very poor and don't worth the risks.
Maybe your doctor performed a bad ATL but I also remember that crimsontide had problems.At this point one could say that maybe crimsontide's doc had done some mistakes.
Statistically speaking it would be 19 (ATL benefits) vs 2 (ATL dangers). But I also heard that many doctors disagree om this subject.
So what are the conclusions ? Basically we have contrasting infos and doctors opinions.Therefore until when ATL will be identified with certainty as a danger or a benefit,doing LL is a complete gamble

Achilles tendon is a very delicate part of the body, like all the tendons, and if you mess with its length the power deficiency is from big (for a little lengthening) to huge (if you have massive bf).
Achilles tendon is responsible for walking, jumping and running and even a small loss in power will make a big effect on these, but most of the time the power loss is really big.

Me, Crimsontide and other users from the old forum have written again and again how bad this surgery is. After all I could have said that I am fine and 100% consolidated compared to my preLL condition, I don't have any reason to write how bad was atl if I really believed it and saw it with my own eyes from my personal experience.
If I didn't have done the corrective surgery to shorten again my tendons I'd really be very frustrated right now but I am much better now thanx. I really see the days between atl and at shortening surgery as a nightmare. There is nothing worse to walk and feel your feet loose and weak.

Furthermore, I don't care what Catagni says about atl and that in 20 patients, 19 did it and fully recovered.
Here on the forum many people did tibias to more than 6cm lengthening and none except from Catagni's patients did atl, so there is no way that atl is necessary for the majority of people who underwent tibia lengthening. Even before less than a month a patient of Catagni wrote here about the terrible pains he had from atl and he was really frustrated about his condition. Of course he was on the first days and I hope he becomes better soon but I hope he will update his condition and see how good he is.
And finally, Paley and other serious doctors are totally against atl and only use it in very extreme cases where there is no improvement in dorsiflexion after years.

Anyway, I wrie all these from my heart and I believe it is my duty to inform people about how bad is atl surgery because I don't want anyone to be in my position when I trusted my ex doctor and he almost ruined my legs with this  y surgery. But I can't do anything more, if people don't believe me, Crimsontide and many other people (like Chris on the old forum) who are totally against that surgery then they could freely ruin their legs.
But noone xcan say that we haven't warned him.

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Quote from: Body Builder on September 01, 2017, 10:24:23 AMAchilles tendon is a very delicate part of the body, like all the tendons, and if you mess with its length the power deficiency is from big (for a little lengthening) to huge (if you have massive bf).
Achilles tendon is responsible for walking, jumping and running and even a small loss in power will make a big effect on these, but most of the time the power loss is really big.

Me, Crimsontide and other users from the old forum have written again and again how bad this surgery is. After all I could have said that I am fine and 100% consolidated compared to my preLL condition, I don't have any reason to write how bad was atl if I really believed it and saw it with my own eyes from my personal experience.
If I didn't have done the corrective surgery to shorten again my tendons I'd really be very frustrated right now but I am much better now thanx. I really see the days between atl and at shortening surgery as a nightmare. There is nothing worse to walk and feel your feet loose and weak.

Furthermore, I don't care what Catagni says about atl and that in 20 patients, 19 did it and fully recovered.
Here on the forum many people did tibias to more than 6cm lengthening and none except from Catagni's patients did atl, so there is no way that atl is necessary for the majority of people who underwent tibia lengthening. Even before less than a month a patient of Catagni wrote here about the terrible pains he had from atl and he was really frustrated about his condition. Of course he was on the first days and I hope he becomes better soon but I hope he will update his condition and see how good he is.
And finally, Paley and other serious doctors are totally against atl and only use it in very extreme cases where there is no improvement in dorsiflexion after years.

Anyway, I wrie all these from my heart and I believe it is my duty to inform people about how bad is atl surgery because I don't want anyone to be in my position when I trusted my ex doctor and he almost ruined my legs with this crapy surgery. But I can't do anything more, if people don't believe me, Crimsontide and many other people (like Chris on the old forum) who are totally against that surgery then they could freely ruin their legs.
But noone xcan say that we haven't warned him.

Bodybuilder,I believe you and crimsontide.I read some articles that were strictly against ATL and in fact it does have sense since the Achilleus tendon is a very delicate part of our body.
I was asking myself why you still recommends Catagni as one of the best concerning tibia.You cannot say "yes he is a top surgeon at lengthening tibia" and the fact that he strongly suggests ATL is negligible.Of course no one doctor will perform a surgery against your will.But will you disobey at his tips while doing this kind of surgery ? You cannot simply trust him at 50%.Or 100% or nothing