Hi,
So I am starting to share some info here, basically to help others (this forum helped me (I hope end results will be good) to get to this point, so would like to share some info about my experience.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Story:
5"9, in my thirties. I discovered about LL about 12 years ago and found this forum (used to be called MakeMeTaller, getting slightly taller was always something I thought can benefit me.
Back then I basically decided internals are more interesting, and femurs due to faster recovery and less complications (I will give you my view about proportions later).
Back then according to my conclusions, Guichet and Betz were the main players, precise/stryde didn't exist, externals were not something I would do (I am not very short so I was looking for fast recovery with minimal suffering).
There were a couple of Guichet diaries here and I travelled to meet him and some of his patients that had diaries in this forum. I was impressed with their mobility and I thought this is a nice idea. I didn't have enough money back then, and I also believed even if I did I probably wasn't responsible enough to go through this (without telling anyone). So I continued with my life.
I started using lifts and that made me quite happy with my life, the tall effect was great (it works for sure - don't let anyone tell you it's not). However - lifts suck big time. Using them for years will also damage a lot of things in your feet.
As I became more succesfull, I started playing around with the idea of doing LL, and as I was still obsessing with height the idea always popped into my mind.
I decided I would do it, hoping and praying I will manage to get a gain without risking too much other aspects of my life (job, friends, family, athletic ability).
The week before making the decision and paying for this was exteremly hard, and I almost decided not to do it up until the last minute. In the end, I said to myself that something must have brought me here for a reason and this is a journey that I must take. Please pray for my sucess.
General views about this after surgery::
So, basically I would say that even tough I was reading this forum for years, it didn't prepare me well enough for this. Neither Guichet and his team, or meeting other patient. When you are an "outsider" to the experience, anything seems easier for you and you assume things will work out. But when you are part of it - it will test who you are and what you can endure.
This is not a cosmetic surgery (like boobs, nose or any other thing in which you do a surgery and being pretty passive after you recover). This is a process that I would describe like this:
- Turn yourself into a disabled person (very disabled because you break TWO limbs (this is rare even in accidents)
- Lengthen the limbs gradually in a process that will make you count minutes every day looking for the next day, stretching muscles in a way you never experienced before, as well as soft tissue like nerves and tendons. This is traumatic to the body
- Isolate yourself from your environment
- Complications can occur
- Even after you finish lengthening, you have a very long recovery process to come back to what you were (I assume 1 year on average).
This means I will only recommend it to people who HIGHLY suffer from height (shorter guys than me - I feel you). And you must be very strong mentally.
Don't imagine that you will pay for a surgery and some magic will make you taller. Be PREPARED for a very tough experience.
You CANNOT do this alone. You need a 24h helper (you can't reach your feet or get up sofas or beds so easily in the first days). You must learn all the small bits of living as a disabled person (there are many tricks you will need to learn).
Guichet and team
Basically the have a very strict and define protocol, which includes Gym training twice a day for stretching and strength of your lefts(they recommend training before surgery with the team - I believe this is a great idea but I haven't done this myself). Besides training, you need to eat 4000 calories a day, take supplements, comply to their diet, do bike 1.5h each day, and click 3 times a day using the G-Nail). You also need to document all of that every day (that would take more hours than what you will have in your day).
Guichet is not an easy guy, but he is a scientist at the heighest levels (he invented this nail and is still actively researching LL). He is a difficult person and would not be your psycologist or support but more like an army general always pushing you to work harder and not crying. Sometimes - that helps (I have my cases of feeling so weak I couldn't stand and after he pushed me to gym I was actually feeling better). But sometimes, it's also problematic and might miss some issues that solving them could benefit his patients. I do believe support is important so don't get me wrong.
More on Guichet and team
I was impressed with the improvements he made to his protocol. Basically, I remember that 10 years ago with Guichet, the surgery would include more hospitalization, more complications and slower recovery. Right now, what he calls "hyper fast track" lowered the hospital time from 3 nights to 0-1 night. I stayed 1 night, although I was expecting to stay 0. Will touch on that later.
Also, I believed that his focus on training prior to surgery and after is key for recovery, and respected him for that because I am sure it made him lose a lot of patients (most of us are lazy, and that's ok).
Guichet is still available to you after surgery, as well as his team. However, don't expect him to be your 24h companion.
You will receive a program with everything you need to do after surgery, including all medicine, training, post-op check, gym training times and you need to document everything you do.
He will tell you exactly what to do and he emphasizes one thing - Don't ever do anything, even not changing 1mg of medication, adding an exercise or clicking an extra click without letting him know. He want's to know everything and will not accept any deviation from his protocol, which he will show you statistically using research evidence, that is beneficial (he will walk you through all his number and statistics).
He claims all of his statistics that are constantly improving is due to him constantly trying to improve in every parameter (he said "I am an inventor, I always try to make things better").
His anesthesia protocol impressed me as well, he basically uses General + Morphine to the spine. The reason for using specifically morphine is that it will maintain muscle, thus you can use it after surgery to achieve things like riding the bike or walking stairs. In addition, they are now using some compound that doesn't make patients vomit (I didn't feel sick at all).
My Experience
So before surgery I was nervous like hell, I thought it is better to dissappear from earth. But I was still curious if that is possible, that I can become taller and get through this, and live my life after I recover as a taller "me". Eventually I said to myself the NIKE approach of "Just do it" and boom, I decided that the best way for me to make sure I go to surgery is to do fun stuff the night before and not sleep a lot, so I would be quite tired when entering and my brain will be on "automatic" mode.
Checked in at the hospital, met Guichet and the Anestesiologist, The OR was full of people (around 8 people) one of the male nurses put an IV in my hand, after several attempts to find a vein, then I heard the Anestesiologist say something like "let's inject it", and the next thing I know I open my eyes and I see that I'm in the recovery room (I think).
I was looking at my legs, I could move my toes, but I could not move my legs. Imagine you are using your brain to move them but they don't move. So I thought to myself - That's probably due to spinal anesthesia. Then I see Guichet, and I just told him that I think anesthesia didn't finish yet on my legs. He said: no that's not possible. I said by I cannot move my legs. He said of course, we need to activate the muscle. Next thing I know he grabs my knee and pushes it to my chest. I couldn't believe how heavy my legs were, they felt like I had a truck on me. Then he tells me to grab my calf and push it towards the femur. It was almost impossible but I managed to connect them. He said very good, and then I was able to move my legs a little, but they were super heavy and stiff.
You cannot imagine the level of stifness until you do it. It is something I never experienced before. The only way to move your leg is if you make the initial movement with your hand and then your leg will "learn" that movement.
Then Guichet showed me how to click my legs, but I was super dizzy and didn't even understood what he was saying or which leg we clicked (he said I should click the next one by myself later). I later decided it was the left and clicked the right one more the next day but who knows...
The feeling of heaving two broken legs is something I will never forget. You are basically disabled. I had to call nurses to move my blanket 1cm, or handle me water that is 5cm away. In addition, I decided I would put my feet at the bed, and it felt like the part of the bed where I was laying my feet is like a boat, or something that moves. I thought that might be a special bed for recovery of the legs. But I was WRONG - the feeling I had is me moving my fracture site, which is possible I believe because this is a ratcheting nail with some degree of freedom for the LEFT and RIGHT. Once I understood that, I understood that I basically have new legs now, that I don't even know how to operate.
Guichet and a PT wanted me to stand a use a walker, I tried and then I just opened my eyes and understood that I fainted. So I was to stay at the hospital for 1 night (I didn't want to leave). But some patients leave in the same day of operation.
I hired a helper (you MUST have somebody 24/7 with you, at least for the first period (I am still day 4 post op so can't say anything for after). So told her to come back tomorrow.
The night was difficult, I had to rely on nurses and couldn't move from the bed. I was happy my legs were not shaven (this will hide the scars more). also, I was very happy that I don't have a cathether. I didn't have a lot of pain, just feeling disabled was hard. I got a slight fever and was given an IV.
The feeling of disability was the hardest for me, as you are perfectly normal a few hours before, and now becoming handicapped. This is something you must be prepared for mentally and this is not a joke. It would last more time, and will improve gradually in slow steps over many months. Make sure you can handle something like this (don't think - I am so strong, be sure you are)
Key insights after doing LL
1. Most people in this forum are height obsessive (this is an obsession). I understood I was obsessed as well. LL will give you more perspective. People in the world don't walk around thinking about height 10 times a day (at least) like most of you. Try to see the world from their eyes to get better proportions. You might be doing wrong decisions also for the number of CM you want.
2. LL is not a magic surgery that will make you "a taller you". It should be described as: a bone lengthening making a specific bone segment in you longer and your other parts of the body above it will increase from their previous position. Be carefull not to LL to much.
3. Being disabled is rough, especially if you lived a normal and active lifestyle before. The more you did - the more you should prepare mentally to sacrifice that. If you are a loner, this might be easier for you.
4. You must be 100% sure you want to do this (90% is not good enough)
5. You must be mature enough and responsible for every aspect (additional costs, organization) everything that will make you achieve this and go through this safe. Any parameter that you would skip could cause a major complication.
That's it for now.
Please wish me luck
Hi Limbfan2020,
I was actually aware of these cases, and it didn't make it any easier decision. However, I was more focused on the experiences of the patients that I met with my own eyes and on additional diaries in this forum that were more successful. I do believe that every medical procedure heavy as this has a rate of serious complications, and as more doctors will do it - the more cases that are unsuccessful will appear. It is something we should all take into account.
If you look carefully - you can find horror stories about every doctor. So this is part of the game. Don't think for a second that I don't believe these are very serious cases you have mentioned. But I found bad stories about all the other ones as well (Betz dissappearing and additional surgeries or complications/Horror stories from Turkey/And even complications from Paley and others), but what's common to all of the is that they are all still running and kicking with more patients still doing LL under their hands.
The fact that Giotikas also decided to use the G-Nail made me consider it even more, as this also increases the number of cases done by this method.
Quote from: informationispower on January 20, 2023, 06:22:54 PMHow much cms of lifts were you using? Also, care to elaborate about the "tall effect" you mentioned?
I believe they were about 5cm.
You can test the "tall effect" very easily. Through in some lifts and go play around the world. You will see a difference in how the world perceive you in many ways.
I would also tell you that lifts really sucks - people notice them (some will tell you, so multiply 5X and get also the people that noticed and just didn't say anything). In addition, they give you a strange height effect, which is different than LL.
Quote from: informationispower on January 21, 2023, 03:22:45 PMA total of 5cm or5cm insoles+height of boots?
Not counting boots. Just the insoles. I guess they would give you around 4cm as they have an angle.
So,
Basicaly you get 1cm during the operation, then you start clicking since the first day of surgery (there is not waiting period like I see here with other doctors). Clicking using the conventional method was easy for me for the first 2 days, but now at postop day 5,6 it has become harder for me. This is not due to pain, but due to my muscles being tight so I need to stay at that annoying position for more time until they relax. This increased stress a little, as one time I got a muscle contracting at the clicking position, heard the click, but it hurt as the muscle just contracted suddenly. ANY TIPS?
Guichet wants you to train all the time, and he says losing the most muscle is in the first week, so he wants you to do as hard as you can the first week (I was on the Eliptical machine the day after surgery).
At postop day 5, my legs were much stronger now (before, in order to raise them from the bed I need to do the first lift with my hands. Now I can control them better with my mind even without needing to kickstart them with a hand movement. Also I can move them much faster and stronger.
I have duckass since day 1 after op (anybody else had that so soon?
I am using the walker and now I feel pretty good with it. In order to train my walking (and not just lifting my body with my arms) I was suggested by Guichet to "Catwalk" - basically you walk leg crossing leg. He says if you walk like that since early stage, you will not get wide legs.
In my first week, I wasted all my strength on things that didn't contribute to my healing (entering a taxi took me 20 mins and sitting on the toiliet 15 mins). I was also very stressed from these things. Now I found better ways to do them (ordering a van and not regular taxi, getting a toilet sit lift).
I still keep my helper with me 24h, but for the last two days she went away for some hours so that's also an improvement.
Currently my biggest challenge is to find a way to click fast enough so I will not miss clicking sessions (I missed some already), whilst still keeping up with the crazy daily routine (2 gym training a day X2H, daily tests, and aslo eating 4k calories a day, taking all vitamins and supplements that Guichet requires.
All I care about is being as most efficient as I can, and continue lengthening.
Quote from: LengtheningDream on January 22, 2023, 10:21:52 AMHow do you have ur helper 24/7? Does she go away in her room until you need her or she's besides your bed all the time?
I took an apartment with a big sofa bed in the living room. She is staying there. I believe I don't need 24h anymore since I feel much comfortable now and less stress. But having the first night at the hospital was amazing (nurses to move my legs and help me). And since 2nd night helper until night 5 helped me feel more relaxed.
I will keep her just for the day this week. And she is preparing all meals for me (amazing food)
Quote from: ten on January 22, 2023, 01:57:09 PMI didn't realise you're early in your journey and so sorry if this question was not in good taste.
I was just trying to respond to how you said the doc shows stats but I'm not sure if he shows all his prospective patients all the complications including death (there has been at least one). From what I know, he doesn't list this.
Anyway, most of his patients lengthen and recover the fastest among most doctors and I'm sure you'll fall into that category too. Good luck! Is this in Milano or Londra?
Hi Ten,
Sure no worries 
I know there has been a death with other docs as well. Death is not included in his statistics as a parameter, but I have asked him. He did not hide it from me and basically answered that there was one patient that ever died and that was due to things relevant to compression stocking and other things that the patient did not comply with.
I then discussed Guichet regarding the major complications (like thrombosis, and PE). He gave me very good explanations to how he deals with them in his protocol, and at what parts of the process they become a risk (not all of them are relevant and there are specific timeframes in which they could happen. (after my surgery, I was actually rolled to an ultrasound machine that scanned my major arteries for PE), Guichet said that risk something you would already know about right after surgery and they are carefully checking for this.
Being here in this situation, I try to comply with everything he says. When you are sent to an apartment even at the day of surgery, you are on your own. This can be highly risky. This is why you must fully comply and understand everything, there are so many details however that sometimes its not easy to do (you are not in your optimal state - you are disabled and after a major surgery). So - I can also understand why individuals could get to complications, basically if you fall into depression and staying away from the protocol, or the opposite (being too active and doing too much activities or the wrong ones and breaking something or the nail), I could have easily fallen out of one of these taxis.
Currently in Milan
Guys any tips for clicking better and easier are welcomed! Please assist me if you have the knowledge.
Also how can I make my muscles less stiff. I am doing the regular stuff like bike exercise and stretching but still they are super hard to manuver.
I am at postop day 5
Quote from: OzBoy39 on January 22, 2023, 09:20:07 PMIf I can help… I did Gnail in August with Giotikas. You seem to have had the same issue I had in clicking as in at about day 4 or 5 (can’t remember exactly), I started having great difficulty in “finding” the click and was ending up straining all my legs in the effort.
I was using the “conventional” that they teach you in hospital. That didn’t work for me.
See the videos below and perhaps go read around page 3 or 4 of my diary for a detailed explanation on “how” I managed to execute those (super duper slowly).
If you do it slowly is really almost painless.
See videos below
LEFT LEG
https://streamable.com/z4xgzo
RIGHT LEG
https://streamable.com/l4ys7j
Hope this helps.
Oz thanks a lot my friend! I am checking out your videos. I actually don't have an issue holding my legs like you do over there, but it is quite scary to twist it like that. I need to practice but it looks like a good alternative. Did you have any boundaries before you were able to do that?
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