I agree with some of the others. You should stop lengthening if you feel like you height dysphoria is gone and you don't crave anymore height. Don't listen to op, 2 cm is definitly not noticeable, and many people experience prolonged time waiting to fully recover and some never do because they decided to overlengthen and was in a similiar situation. Cyborg4Life recently talked about this in one of his live videoes, where he recommended to stay in the safe range between 6-7 cm on the femurs, cuz most people who do more don't fully recover or get's limited Range of motion, kind of like how your're describing it, but worse. And why suffer that fate for freaking 1-2 cm? Better posture than others will give you that, and the difference is absolutely minimal. Put 2 people side by side where the difference is between 1-2 cm and you will have to stand with a loop to see the difference, cuz it's barely their...
- 29:20
Quote from: p00293 on April 12, 2023, 10:41:36 AMAs for myself, booked in, paid for the surgery, will start it in 5 days.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you. Good luck with the surgery, and come back in a couple of months to tell us how it went and whether you still feel the same. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.
Quote from: p00293 on April 12, 2023, 10:41:36 AM181 vs 179 is important enough to make it worth another 20 days of your time and another month or two of crappy walking.
It's important enough for you (!!!), not for him. You're giving "advice" to him, which should be based on what's good for him, not what's good for you, yet you dismiss every reason he has given you to stop earlier just for the sake of your unhealthy obsession with maximizing every millimeter you can. I bet if he was pre surgery you'd tell him to go to Europe so he can do more than 8cm right? Why stop at 8cm when some people do 12cm?
Quote from: p00293 on April 12, 2023, 10:41:36 AMThere's a good reason 90% of patients do the max 8cm on Femur - you can assume most of the other 10% didn't stop out of choice either, but necessity.
Do you have evidence for this number? If so, please share with us, I'd love to see it. I suspect you just made up this number. I've seen a couple of top doctors talk about average height gained and it seems lower, definitely not 90% doing 8cm.
Quote from: hippo60 on April 12, 2023, 12:21:49 PMI'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you. Good luck with the surgery, and come back in a couple of months to tell us how it went and whether you still feel the same. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.
It's important enough for you (!!!), not for him. You're giving "advice" to him, which should be based on what's good for him, not what's good for you, yet you dismiss every reason he has given you to stop earlier just for the sake of your unhealthy obsession with maximizing every millimeter you can. I bet if he was pre surgery you'd tell him to go to Europe so he can do more than 8cm right? Why stop at 8cm when some people do 12cm?
Do you have evidence for this number? If so, please share with us, I'd love to see it. I suspect you just made up this number. I've seen a couple of top doctors talk about average height gained and it seems lower, definitely not 90% doing 8cm.
My "evidence" is what the doctor told me during the consultation, he specifically mentioned that 90% figure. Of course I've no way of proving that but by the same token I'm not obligated to provide you hard evidence of anything on demand.
As for the rest, hyperbole is never a good argument point, so I'll accept you conceding and move on.
Quote from: DanishViking on April 12, 2023, 11:02:15 AMI agree with some of the others. You should stop lengthening if you feel like you height dysphoria is gone and you don't crave anymore height. Don't listen to op, 2 cm is definitly not noticeable, and many people experience prolonged time waiting to fully recover and some never do because they decided to overlengthen and was in a similiar situation. Cyborg4Life recently talked about this in one of his live videoes, where he recommended to stay in the safe range between 6-7 cm on the femurs, cuz most people who do more don't fully recover or get's limited Range of motion, kind of like how your're describing it, but worse. And why suffer that fate for freaking 1-2 cm? Better posture than others will give you that, and the difference is absolutely minimal. Put 2 people side by side where the difference is between 1-2 cm and you will have to stand with a loop to see the difference, cuz it's barely their...
- 29:20
Keep injecting that estrogen.
Are you stopping because it gets really hard 5+cm in? I'm at 24mm so I cant understand, but when it gets super hard I'll have no issue slowing down. 0.75mm a day or 0.5/0.25, whatever. an extra 20-30 days of lengthening wont be anything compared to the next 80 years I hope to live.
You already spent the money, and surgery, and all that, why stop shy of an 8 cm goal? Athletic ability of 6cm and 8cm (when fully healed in 1-2 years) will be pretty indiffferent I think. As long as you are not a professional player who cares if you can sprint at 99% vs 96% top speed.
Quote from: hippo60 on April 12, 2023, 03:00:47 AMYou don't need to convince anyone other than yourself whether you should stop or not. Do what feels right to you.
It's really hard to grasp the impact on recovery between 6cm and 8cm. It's pretty obvious that you're going to recover faster if you do less. But are you going to lose more athletic ability? That's harder to answer. Let's assume for a second your athletic ability is going to be the same, but you will recover 50% faster (just throwing a number). Does it change your decision?
Your tightness is something to be more concerned with. You should definitely be able to bend your knees to at least (!) 90 degrees, and also straighten your leg with your knee touching the floor. If not then I assume your doctor might have something to say about it as well (feel free to share who that is if you're comfortable).
Other than that, how are you feeling about LL in general? Are you dreading every single day and just dying to finish? Are you in pain? Or you're just chilling? That can also make a huge difference, and there is no shame about it.
As for p00293's response - I'm 99.99999% he didn't do LL. While (some of) his arguments may seem somewhat reasonable, they're also quite silly as well. It's pretty easy to tell who actually did (or is doing) LL versus who is just talking about it. Keep in mind that most people who came here and did LL completed their recovery and forgot about this forum, so you're left with people who are going through it right now (typically they'll have a diary, but not always, like me 
), and the rest (which is the vast majority) - people who have no fking clue about LL other than reading and watching videos. You should be VERY cautious about their "advice" and "feedback". Personally I believe it's completely worthless, but you're welcome to think differently.
Thanks for the response.
Thats a good question about recovery. If I could guarantee I would recover 50% faster, I probably would be inclined to stop at or around 6 CM. From what I have heard, every MM after 6 CM increases recovery exponentially as opposed to linearly, but not sure how true that is.
I plan on doing a diary at some point, or a summary of my journey more so, but to give some background my surgeon is Dr. Assayag. They are concerned with the lack of knee flexion in my left knee, and if I were to continue they would slow me down to .75 or .5 MM a day. But he does believe I will regain the flexion back when fully recovered. He is truly a great doctor, and he will support me whatever my decision.
I am eager to get back to normal activities, but I have no pain currently. The most annoying thing is the gabapentin definitely affects my mental state, and gives me brain fog. Besides that, the only challenging thing is PT.
Another thing is I am going back to work in two weeks. I work mostly a hybrid job, and Ill probably work from home the first 1-2 weeks regardless, but that is impacting my decision as I would like to be done lengthening by the time I go back.
I did post this question on the d as well, and got a lot of the same responses. One individual who recently completed LL and went the full 8 said he would not feel satisfied if he stopped at 6. Most of the response there was the same, that I should go for a full 8, but it can be an echo chamber in these spaces so I heed your warning of caution.
I am giving myself a few bonus millimeters regardless, but ultimately I know I am the one that has to decide when to stop. I don't have anyone I can deliberate this with in my life since I haven't told many people about this, so I appreciate your engagement on this post, it is extremely useful in helping me decide.
Quote from: informationispower on April 12, 2023, 07:47:00 AMLol at the incels above who didnt even do the surgery. Anyway, you are smart. 6cm is very good and 179cm is not short anywhere and no one besides height obsssesed people can notice the difference between you and s 6 footer
Thanks, this is my general feeling too. Goal was never to be "tall", just wanted not to be "short"
Quote from: p00293 on April 12, 2023, 10:41:36 AMNo it doesn't mean you need Tibia surgery, it just simply means that at each centimetre within that range your life gets better. That has to be weighed up against the costs and time taken - another surgery would put you out tens of thousands of dollars and months more time, whereas doing the last 2cm here and now requires you to just grit your teeth and suffer 20 more days - the reward to cost ratio is much better.
Saying "no one notices" an extra couple of centimetres, well its just not really true. True, i probably couldn't accurately tell the difference between a 179 guy and a 180 or 181 guy in terms of being able to accurately determine their height walking past them on the street. That doesn't mean its "not noticable" though, as these things work off a sliding scale, subconsciously people will treat you better taller and they don't need to be able to name your exact height for it.
For girls, no, being 173cm definitely cost you some lays. Just because you "did fine" at 173 means little: no one except retards think its not possible to get laid as a short man, just that it's significantly harder than IF THE SAME VERSION OF YOURSELF WAS TALLER. Whatecer success you had before, you'd have done BETTER if taller. That difference is far less from 179 vs 181, but don't let anyone delude themselves its not there. Footwear is irrelevant as there's no reason one can't do the extra 2cm AND wear chunky trainers, it's not one or the other.
As for myself, booked in, paid for the surgery, will start it in 5 days.
It's not only about "not being short". I'll agree 179cm is perfrctly average. But once you've broken your legs already, you want to maximise the benefits you're getting. This isn't the same as a 178cm guy who did 6cm and is asking about continuing more - because in that case the extra centimetres aren't gonna change a whole lot. 181 vs 179 is important enough to make it worth another 20 days of your time and another month or two of crappy walking. There's a good reason 90% of patients do the max 8cm on Femur - you can assume most of the other 10% didn't stop out of choice either, but necessity.
If I really was not satisfied with only 6 CM, I wouldn't be concerned with the cost of an additional surgery. I would be concerned with the additional trauma to the body.
I should disclose that a lot of this surgery has been covered by insurance in my case since I had a limb deformity (retroversion) that Dr. Assayag corrected along with a meniscectomy in addition to the lengthening. I actually haven't received any bills from the surgery itself yet since my insurance is still processing the claim. I will probably have to pay for the lengthening nails and maybe some other items, looking in the 30-40k range. If I had already shelled out 70k I might be more inclined to go for the full 8, I don't know. I just can't see a 2 cm difference mattering that much where I would risk additional functionality/athleticism. You even mentioned in a previous post that you wouldn't consider the surgery if you were 5'11
I won't argue that I *could* have had more success w/ women if I was 6 ft, assuming everything else was equal. Although its never equal, being shorter gave me a chip on my shoulder that led to a lot of my success that then led to more success w/ women. Regardless, that's not a huge concern since I have a long term girlfriend.
Footwear is not irrelevant since most people in the normal-tall range of height are not consciously wearing thick footwear to be taller, so you close the gap with those '"normies" by wearing your air maxes or timbs. Yes anyone can do it, but most people don't care enough to do it, they just wear whats comfortable.
I'd like to see actual numbers of how many patients actually get 8. I'd believe its more than 50%, but 90% seems like a stretch.
Best of luck with your surgery bud, see you on the other side.
Quote from: DanishViking on April 12, 2023, 11:02:15 AMI agree with some of the others. You should stop lengthening if you feel like you height dysphoria is gone and you don't crave anymore height. Don't listen to op, 2 cm is definitly not noticeable, and many people experience prolonged time waiting to fully recover and some never do because they decided to overlengthen and was in a similiar situation. Cyborg4Life recently talked about this in one of his live videoes, where he recommended to stay in the safe range between 6-7 cm on the femurs, cuz most people who do more don't fully recover or get's limited Range of motion, kind of like how your're describing it, but worse. And why suffer that fate for freaking 1-2 cm? Better posture than others will give you that, and the difference is absolutely minimal. Put 2 people side by side where the difference is between 1-2 cm and you will have to stand with a loop to see the difference, cuz it's barely their...
- 29:20
Thanks for posting that video, really brings some perspective to it. My range of motion on my left knee is definitely an issue, which is contributing to my thoughts of stopping. Dr. Assayag does not seem too worried that I will not be able to get it back, but he does want me to slow down so I can catch up if I were to continue.
Quote from: ballsackoffury123 on April 13, 2023, 01:19:54 AMAre you stopping because it gets really hard 5+cm in? I'm at 24mm so I cant understand, but when it gets super hard I'll have no issue slowing down. 0.75mm a day or 0.5/0.25, whatever. an extra 20-30 days of lengthening wont be anything compared to the next 80 years I hope to live.
You already spent the money, and surgery, and all that, why stop shy of an 8 cm goal? Athletic ability of 6cm and 8cm (when fully healed in 1-2 years) will be pretty indiffferent I think. As long as you are not a professional player who cares if you can sprint at 99% vs 96% top speed.
Hey man, glad to hear you're doing well. Ironically I was just reading your post in the thread about IT band releases, as that is what my PT and the Dr think is limiting my knee flexion. I did have the release, but mine may have grown back too fast on my left side. Going to try to keep stretching it before considering getting a re-release, doctors typically don't like doing those.
If I didn't have this flexion issue, there would be no physical indications that I need to slow down or stop. Apart from tightness & nerve irritation which required me to get on gabapentin, the whole process has been smooth. Definitely not easy, but I am pleased and have no regrets. Going to 8 would require slowing down to at least .75MM/day, probably .5, and adds some more time into consolidation and soft tissue recovery.
If only I had a TemPad from the Loki series to jump timelines, then I could see how the alternate version of myself recovered when I do 8 CM vs when I do 6 CM. Reality is whichever one I choose, I'll never know how the other would have fared.
Appreciate your perspective. a 3% difference in athleticism would probably not be a deal breaker, but it is something I would consider when talking about trading off for an extra 2 CM.
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