@zakika You mean limited goals, I think LL is a single piece of the puzzle, in order for it to be complete we need the other 2 pieces. That is arm lengthening including both the forearm and humerus and torso lengthening. But I think by then we would presumably be able to reopen the growth plates.
Quote from: lemonade311 on May 20, 2018, 04:05:04 PMPost evidence then. There have been 0 deaths/amputations from the top doctors.
FYI
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=3922.0
Quote from: insearchofanswers on October 31, 2016, 08:04:32 PMWho died after LL? These are the examples I have found in the boards.
- Catagni's patient died from fat embolism.
- MasterHY is probably dead according to his friends. He had his surgery with Betz and then went home with the best doctors in the world and he died after his 4th surgery.
- Guy in Barcelona guesthouse died after femur fracture (not Monegal's patient)
- Young girl died in OR after LL and plaster removal and her organs disappeared in Barcelona so the authopsia couldn't be conducted.
- African Girl died in India after LL.
You can add Monegal patient who committed suicide (6) and the Korean star who died after surgery (7).
About 1)
Quote from: KiloKAHN on April 20, 2015, 10:49:52 PMI don't know of any stats, but I did come across a report where Dr Catagni reported a patient death during an Achilles tendon lengthening.
About 2)
Quote from: hanshi on November 06, 2016, 07:56:02 AMThere is no final proof that he died, however there is no reason to believe he is still alive either. As already mentioned i was in contact with him and there was no reason for him to stop answering me. He wanted to sue Betz and i promised to help him.
In his 4th surgery he got his 4th nail plus a bone graft for his left leg. The bone was taken from his hip. It was a big surgery because they had to fill a 10cm gap. He wrote to me :“ I am recovering from the surgery, it was pretty intense, I had a lot of pain and my leg seemed to be reacting a bit strange to the bone graft. I also have a lot of discomfort in the hip area where the bone graft was done, and I think it will be awhile before get somewhere with all of this.”
There was much more in his email. Shortly afterwards he stopped replying to me. That was in May 2015. So i'm quite convinced he died.
About 3)
Not LL patient it seem.
Quote from: LLuser1 on October 14, 2016, 12:59:33 AM
2) I said there was a patient who died in the guesthouse and MM had a complication again. Was it false? No. No defamation then. It's true there was a guy in the guesthouse who died from a femur fracture and that Musicmaker had a new complication. When people said the guy who died was not a Monegal patient I accepted that because I don't know more details than that but I cannot accept new lies about Musicmaker because I know she is having complications and went to hospital because people from the guesthouse confirmed this.
About 4)
Quote from: Koi on November 03, 2016, 08:30:45 AM I talked with this girl's family and I can tell this casw is real, BUT she didn't die because of the LL procedure itself. There was a negligence measuring the dose of anesthesia, and she died from a heart attack (she was 11 y.o.). And no, Monegal was never involved into this incident since he stopped working with that medical team before.
About 5)
Quote from: LLuser1 on July 28, 2016, 11:53:56 PMSome people die after LL surgery or become crippled because they are mislead by unethical doctors.
Young people whose lives have been destroyed
https://www.naij.com/655056-indian-doctors-killed-nigerian-girl-india.html
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/01/they-let-my-daughter-die-as-i-watched-in-horror-mother-of-uniabuja-graduate/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Appoint-JNAFAU-VC-by-June/articleshow/51917509.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Doctors-in-dock-over-Hyderabad-techies-height-surgery/articleshow/51721493.cms
About 6)
Quote from: notatroll on May 09, 2018, 08:01:59 PMIt's a hard pill to swallow. My doctor told me it would be easy but he lied. If I had known, I'd have never done it. I didn't get complications but the pain was so strong I couldn't imagine. The wheelchair makes you feel stagnant and useless. I used it for months but some patients have used it for years. Life as a cripple is sad. I don't know how those patients managed to keep suicidal thoughts away (one of them commited suicide though)
Quote from: Oh So Arrogant on May 11, 2018, 12:39:45 AMThis is so incredibly sad. Dr. Monegal causes the problems with his horrible surgical technique, then he can't fix the problems, so the patient feels helpless and takes their own life.
About 7)
Quote from: 1683131665 on May 16, 2018, 06:36:11 AMToday I saw a news. A Korean wanted to be a star but had surgery because of height restrictions. He had a high fever shortly after the operation, but the hospital gave him only a few pills. He was taken to hospital the next day. The treatment was declared dead after five days.
The autopsy results were caused by the stenosis of pulmonary valve. The location of the operation was in Seoul. No specific hospitals or doctors were announced.
Quote from: 1683131665 on May 18, 2018, 01:43:47 AMI only have Chinese news links. Because I'm not Korean. I just asked Dr. Li’s assistant. It was determined that this tragedy is true. It happened in July 2016. It was exposed by the media a few days ago.
Note: The accident doctor is not Dr Li
http://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1600511972162017723&wfr=spider&for=pc
YOU HAVE ALSO PATIENTS WITH TERRIBLE COMPLICATIONS THAT LAST YEARS LIKE MUSICMAKER (MONEGAL) OR UNICORN888 (GUICHET). MUSICMAKER WAS ABOUT TO DIE TOO,
Quote from: iwontallow on May 19, 2018, 11:34:33 PMI heard that Musicmaker was about to die too in one of the surgeries. She had a very bad reaction to anesthesia and blood loss. Other people developped blood clots. They are very dangerous. These patients didn't die but death is a risk you have to face with this surgery. Doctors who underplay risks should be discarded as options for LL.
Yes, tissue engineering (genetically, or else) will solve all these issues. Currently arm lengthening, and torso lengthening theoretically - for reaching ideal body ratio - would be neccessary, not to mention femur/tibia-fibula ratio. This is the reason every patient has to be considered differently according to unique antropometric measures. According to the recent, logical standpoint (taking a caucasian body inside an average range in body ratio) above 10 cm (femur) lengthening there is no need to to tibias, over it tibia has to be touched (however Dr Pili thinks differently, what I don't consider a good standpoint). What humerus+radius-ulna concerns Russian surgeons did it in extreme lengthening processes, I personally wouldn't do it.
It would be good to see the big picture: gender, age, nail, MD, physical, mental stage etc...These datas are a bit blurry to me, don't get me wrong, I don't intend to mitigate the risk of such an intervention, but the list as itself is only able to create a false picture. I would prefer to see the cases more detailed. I can bring an example to clear it: there was a study with over 200 patient who underwent limb lengthening in the last years (exact number I can't bring). They measured the exact number of infections (as the most common complication), and intramedullary infection (the more serious trait). There was 4 of these complications, and all 4 hat originated from external approach (however people would think it is usually caused by intramedullary nails). With precise nails (that is in use for years) not in 3rd world countries there was no death as I know of, please correct me, if I'm mistaken. Just to be able to draw some conclusion.
Quote from: iwontallow on May 20, 2018, 07:11:16 PM
FYI
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=3922.0
You can add Monegal patient who committed suicide (6) and the Korean star who died after surgery (7).
About 1)
About 2)
About 3)
Not LL patient it seem.
About 4)
About 5)
About 6)
About 7)
YOU HAVE ALSO PATIENTS WITH TERRIBLE COMPLICATIONS THAT LAST YEARS LIKE MUSICMAKER (MONEGAL) OR UNICORN888 (GUICHET). MUSICMAKER WAS ABOUT TO DIE TOO,
Quote from: zakika on May 20, 2018, 07:28:38 PMIt would be good to see the big picture: gender, age, nail, MD, physical, mental stage etc...These datas are a bit blurry to me, don't get me wrong, I don't intend to mitigate the risk of such an intervention, but the list as itself is only able to create a false picture. I would prefer to see the cases more detailed. I can bring an example to clear it: there was a study with over 200 patient who underwent limb lengthening in the last years (exact number I can't bring). They measured the exact number of infections (as the most common complication), and intramedullary infection (the more serious trait). There was 4 of these complications, and all 4 hat originated from external approach (however people would think it is usually caused by intramedullary nails). With precise nails (that is in use for years) not in 3rd world countries there was no death as I know of, please correct me, if I'm mistaken. Just to be able to draw some conclusion.
Complications happen. I know some cases. The list doesn't give a false picture. Doctors create a false picture when they say they don't have complications or blame poor patients.
You're right, it doesn't give any picture. We should see exact numbers, and details. Who claimed complications doesn't happen (even for a local anaesthesia intervention as well)? I'm out for now, I think anyone should use his/hers common sense, and read real papers (pubmed) as well. Do your own research, and talk to doctors with good reputation. At the end it comes down to your gut feeling (based on evidence, and well based knowledge).
I don't recall much sugarcoating, plenty of people chime in on new user threads about how it's an arduous process. We sometimes share filmed operations, and those definitely get the message across that it's no walk in the park.
Quote from: Android on May 20, 2018, 11:14:09 PMI don't recall much sugarcoating, plenty of people chime in on new user threads about how it's an arduous process. We sometimes share filmed operations, and those definitely get the message across that it's no walk in the park.
Doctors sugarcoat very often. My doctor was a good example. He said it was an easy process. He said if his patients got complications it was the patient's fault. When you get the surgery you realize it isn't like that. If you're lucky you will get knee pain and arthritis like me. If you're unlucky you will die, commit suicide in despair or suffer inmensely in your wheelchair for years and having countless surgeries like my friends.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 20, 2018, 06:01:52 PMWe all have our own psychological problems as it pertains to wanting to get LL knowing the risks. It usually depends on our life experiences which problems we develop first. ALL of them are justified if you're below 5'9"-5'10" whereas NONE of them are if you're above.
The fact that someone in the Netherlands can bxtch and complain about how they're 6'1" when everyone else is 6'4" there is absolutely ridiculous. Boo hoo. It's the equivalent to being born in Beverly Hills from a family who only owns 3 Ferraris instead of the 5 all of your friends have. It is not justified get LL from an objective prospective if statistics and logic are used for a 6'1" person.
To be fair, that's how it feels to me when I see anyone 5'10 complaining about their height.
Anything from 177cm and up (just under 5'10) is tall to me... I don't really care if it feels short in the tallest country in the world (though I understand it). 175cm (5'9) is also in no way short. At 177cm, your proportions matter way more than your height. To be a 177cm wide-shouldered guy with naturally high body mass and athletic proportions (i.e. good shoulder-to-waist ratio), or be 3cm taller (5'11) but have weak, narrow shoulders, trouble putting on weight, and be a slenderman? The choice to me is obvious.
Quote from: notatroll on May 21, 2018, 12:06:52 AM If you're lucky you will get knee pain and arthritis like me. If you're unlucky you will die, commit suicide in despair or suffer inmensely in your wheelchair for years and having countless surgeries like my friends.
Scare tactics. The worst case scenario's are very real however the best case scenarios are far better than having arthritis and constant knee pain. Having a higher risk of arthritis is realistic and not too uncommon, but GETTING and HAVING rapidly accelerated arthritis as a result of LL is rare.
I wouldn't question you if you just posted proof.
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