Discrimination Against Average-height Limb Lengtheners

Edit Post

Quote from: realpatient on July 07, 2017, 09:52:12 PMI prefer answering in private if you don't mind.

Sure, PM me if you'd like. Thanks

Edit Post

In the realm of statistics, there's average and then there's above average. If you can supplant being in the 50th percentile with going to the 80-85th percentile, I deem it to be a worthwhile cause, despite what others may think.

Edit Post

Old thread, but it covers the discussion topic, so...

The problem is not "average" people wanting to become taller.

Here are the problems:

• Using the average of the tallest countries of the world to say "average". Perception of height is relative to where you live, but height is an objective measurement, and we are only one species. Being average in tall countries doesn't mean you're objectively average: it means you are subjectively average.

• CLL is admittedly by everyone here the most invasive, painful, time-consuming cosmetic procedure there is - also associated with long term consequences. Many LL vets here said this message in some sort of form: "if you are X height, don't do LL". For paco, it was 5'7/170cm. doomsday mentioned something like 5'8/173cm in this thread. BB says something like 178cm.

So, the crux of the question is: people are free to do whatever they want with their own hard-earned money and their own bodies, but what is seen as discrimination is more a concern for a flawed cost-benefit analysis. Talking about men, being average in a place like Denmark means being 180cm. If you want to do this mainly because of women, online surveys put the ideal height for men at around 180cm in metric countries and 183cm (6 feet) in Imperial ones. So it seems that people who are around that height range and have women as one of the main concerns/reasons for wanting to undergo broken bones, with a gap slowly filled apart, plus lifelong consequences, are not being as sound of mind as many here would like them to be. They could, in all likelihood, get the same increased success with women that CLL would give them through non-invasive ways. I find cases similar to Helloworld's, mentioned in this thread, more understandable: being and feeling short within your own family, and not wanting to feel that way, or wanting to change that.

At the end of the day, like I mentioned, everyone is free to do what they want with their own bodies, granted they're not harming anyone else. I'll respect the decision of even a 190cm guy, as long as it seems to me he has done proper research about what this actually is, and he was honest with his reasons to want something like CLL. If he tells me it is about women, I'll refer him to those surveys and tell him to consider other avenues. If he straight tells me he just always wanted to be taller than that, has shown that he has done proper research and knows this is far from a nosejob, and is only willing to go to the best doctors, without seemingly risking his perspectives of future employment, retirement, and physical mobility, then I can't say anything. I wouldn't do it, but it's his life.

Edit Post

Sounds sensible to me. As long as they do their homework, take a step back and see their situation with an objective gaze, it's really up to them.

I see this argument a lot: "you think you have it hard, try being my height!" It's understandable, we've all felt this way and want to vent, but no amount of empathy is going to put them in our shoes. They've lived their life in their own way, and for some reason ended up looking into CLL.

Many of us on this forum want to get into the average height club, but I don't blame average height people wanting to become objectively tall. I can understand the desire for that when all our lives we're encouraged (and rewarded) to be better than average.

Edit Post

Quote from: Android on May 08, 2018, 10:17:52 PMSounds sensible to me. As long as they do their homework, take a step back and see their situation with an objective gaze, it's really up to them.

This is the problem here. Some of these objectively-tall-but-average-in-their-country people don't do their "homework" properly.

QuoteMany of us on this forum want to get into the average height club, but I don't blame average height people wanting to become objectively tall. I can understand the desire for that when all our lives we're encouraged (and rewarded) to be better than average.

Imagine being 5'11/180cm or 6'/183cm and getting "butchered" by any of the worst surgeons we know of. Be careful to not become what you're fighting. The concept that "more" height is better is heightist in itself. You are unnaturally adding more height to your legs; you aren't making all of yourself proportionally taller.

Going back to my example and actually illustrating it: you (180cm+ man) wanted to get taller. Soon. For cheap. Imagine how much of a loser you'd be seen by your peers to ruin your perfectly fine legs when you're taller than the vast majority of humans on the planet, and the worst possible scenario is that you're average where you live. Walking with a limp - or worse - to remind everyone of what you did to yourself. In this case, a failed CLL would be seen in much worse ways than a legitimately short guy who was just trying to experience life like the men within the normal distribution of height do.

I'm just putting it in a harsh way how the cost-benefit analysis that must be made is different for different heights. This "discrimination" is just trying to make really sure the people with low benefits really know what they're getting into. The taller you are, the more you'll be "discriminated" against. Most people don't like seeing others making possibly terrible decisions for themselves.

Edit Post

Yep, I wouldn't encourage it. My first sentence in the last message was short, but it's important.

Edit Post

Quote from: myloginacct on May 08, 2018, 11:57:39 PMThis is the problem here. Some of these objectively-tall-but-average-in-their-country people don't do their "homework" properly.

Imagine being 5'11/180cm or 6'/183cm and getting "butchered" by any of the worst surgeons we know of. Be careful to not become what you're fighting. The concept that "more" height is better is heightist in itself. You are unnaturally adding more height to your legs; you aren't making all of yourself proportionally taller.

Going back to my example and actually illustrating it: you (180cm+ man) wanted to get taller. Soon. For cheap. Imagine how much of a loser you'd be seen by your peers to ruin your perfectly fine legs when you're taller than the vast majority of humans on the planet, and the worst possible scenario is that you're average where you live. Walking with a limp - or worse - to remind everyone of what you did to yourself. In this case, a failed CLL would be seen in much worse ways than a legitimately short guy who was just trying to experience life like the men within the normal distribution of height do.

I'm just putting it in a harsh way how the cost-benefit analysis that must be made is different for different heights. This "discrimination" is just trying to make really sure the people with low benefits really know what they're getting into. The taller you are, the more you'll be "discriminated" against. Most people don't like seeing others making possibly terrible decisions for themselves.

I think most of it is that people can't imagine themselves with these complications as it's never happened to them. They feel they'll just be able to accept whatever as long as they get their instant gratification. And then you'll see the posts after about "How stupid I was" to make this decision...And then the next onlookers will just sift past it and think it could never happen to them.

I forget who's thread it was but they said that they were thinking about either suicide or LL. When they went through LL they realized that all they wanted to do was get it over with and be healthy.

Someone who's 5'11" wanting to get LL is absolutely insane in my eyes. Once they get the limp or the problem they'll wish they listened but i've found it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise when their mind is made up.

Edit Post

Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 09, 2018, 01:43:52 AMI think most of it is that people can't imagine themselves with these complications as it's never happened to them. They feel they'll just be able to accept whatever as long as they get their instant gratification. And then you'll see the posts after about "How stupid I was" to make this decision...And then the next onlookers will just sift past it and think it could never happen to them.

I forget who's thread it was but they said that they were thinking about either suicide or LL. When they went through LL they realized that all they wanted to do was get it over with and be healthy.

Someone who's 5'11" wanting to get LL is absolutely insane in my eyes. Once they get the limp or the problem they'll wish they listened but i've found it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise when their mind is made up.

funny thing is the same complications could arise for you. just because you are shorter doesn't make the surgery any less risky. People on this forum are insecure about their height so it makes sense there would be a lot of discrimination for average height men to undergo this surgery.
Height neurosis is a real thing regardless of your height, so idc what people on here say. Do your own research, regardless of your height and if you still think the surgery will be worth it for you, then do it. Don't let others insecurities try to dissuade you from this surgery.

Fact is this surgery is done hundreds of thousands of times in the united states for leg length discrepancies with rarely a serious complication. If this surgery was soooooo risky it wouldn't be performed for ll discrepancies in the united states on an otherwise healthy individual. You must do your research and get a good surgeon tho. Don't go to a butcher like guichet, sringari, sarin, monegal. If you want the upmost safety, save up and go to dr. Paley or Rozbruch and do a unilateral surgery for 5-7 cm. Or get TSF frames for external tibias for 3-5 cm with Mahboubian. If you really can't save up that much, then go to dr. parihar, who is a great honest surgeon and recommended by Paley.

Edit Post

If you give me one diary where a patient of dr. paley, rozbruch, mahboubian, or parihar's developed a limp that never recovered, I will give you a cookie.

Edit Post

Quote from: MirinHeight on May 10, 2018, 01:40:31 AMfunny thing is the same complications could arise for you. just because you are shorter doesn't make the surgery any less risky. People on this forum are insecure about their height so it makes sense there would be a lot of discrimination for average height men to undergo this surgery.
Height neurosis is a real thing regardless of your height, so idc what people on here say. Do your own research, regardless of your height and if you still think the surgery will be worth it for you, then do it. Don't let others insecurities try to dissuade you from this surgery.

Fact is this surgery is done hundreds of thousands of times in the united states for leg length discrepancies with rarely a serious complication. If this surgery was soooooo risky it wouldn't be performed for ll discrepancies in the united states on an otherwise healthy individual. You must do your research and get a good surgeon tho. Don't go to a butcher like guichet, sringari, sarin, monegal. If you want the upmost safety, save up and go to dr. Paley or Rozbruch and do a unilateral surgery for 5-7 cm. Or get TSF frames for external tibias for 3-5 cm with Mahboubian. If you really can't save up that much, then go to dr. parihar, who is a great honest surgeon and recommended by Paley.

By the way, you're the main (good) example I think of when I think about tall guys who want CLL in this forum. You want this for yourself (not for women), you make sure to do your research properly, you exclude bad doctors, and you don't have any insane amounts in your head. Overall seems to know what you're getting into too, which is the most important part.