Wow, Purushrottam and ProgramDude coming back to share their thoughts. It is a good time to be on this forum. I really believe the elimination of dysphoria that PD and Purush experienced comes from going below average (honestly not even that short) to firm average-above average. It's close to the bell curve so the percentiles jumped is very large with the addition of three inches completely changing perspective. In the same vein, I think it's also why yellowspike struggled at first with dysphoria after the surgery because although 5'5 to 5'8 is a great jump, It's still firmly below average in the end, so the main social category doesn't undeniable change. In general, especially in america, he was still a short dude after the procedure, so dysphoria lingered. On the bright side, the last few posts on his diary suggest that he accepted and enjoyed his new height in the end.
That's my analysis that nobody asked for. It seems 5'7-5'8 seem to benefit most from the journey due to the complete social category shift.
Obviously, that doesn't benefit me because I am 5'4 flat and I only want to go for 2 inches due to worries on proportion and recovery. It's fine because I just wanted to be closer in height to my father anyway and feel more in line with some of my ethnic friends.
Installing height- Programdude's Precice 2 Internal femurs with Dr. Paley
Quote from: programdude on September 15, 2019, 08:46:03 AMI think it is essential when evaluating if LL is right for you, that if you are using my testimonial to really get a feel on if your head in general was at a similar place as mine before the surgery. I say that because while I had a strong dysphoria, it truly was dysphoria, whereas I have certainly seen some people in the community that I honestly believe if they magically grew three inches would still be discontent, or who are channeling their general frustrations in life and attributing its to their height. Yes certain elements in your life are going to improve post LL but its not something that will magically fix all your problems. I cannot imagine the depression that spending the money and time on this surgery and enduring its pain as well as any complications, babe them physical or in your personal life, only to not feel any different at the end of it.
I really feel for people with body image issues, and having immersed myself in the community both online and in person I would never want to steer people in the wrong direction. That being said I would also not want to ever deter someone who genuinely was in my head space pre LL from getting it. Despite my words of warning I had that horrific complication and a very slow recovery and paid for everything from my hard earned cash and I still am fully satisfied with it, and everyone I personally met and stayed in touch with have been complication free to my knowledge, and are also satisfied. That being said a large chunk of them had a parent bankrolling it(lucky I know!) which obviously takes away a huge barrier.
Amazing to see two LL veterans drop in multiple years after their operations. For future LLers like myself, times like these give us a rare glimpse into the long term outlook of this procedure.
I want to start off by saying thank you to both programdude and purushrottam for sharing their experiences and diaries with the community, I've read both of your diaries twice over and gleaned several valuable insights along the way. I'm actually sitting alone in my room at Homewood Suites in WPB, my operation for bilateral Stryde femurs with Paley is this Tuesday. Knowing that both of you were in my shoes before this is a huge motivator. You've both shared the good, the bad, and the ugly of this journey and I feel way more informed because of it.....THANK YOU!
@programdude a couple of questions:
1) How did you transition back to normal life post op 3 inches taller in the context of friends, family and coworkers? I know you mentioned you came clean to your roommates as they noticed the height gain and you told your mom, but how about everyone else in your life? Did they notice? In my case, for the past 4 years I've been wearing lifts that have added about 2 inches to my height, I'm shooting for 7 cm here to end up at 5'11.5, (I'm currently about 5'8.5 to 5'9 in the morning) and plan on taking the lifts out post op so I'm hoping I can hide this, but wanted to get your take.
2) When you say you are satisfied with the results, is this more freedom of height dysphoria/neurosis or actual incremental gains in different aspects of life such as dating/career/etc? For me, I was generally happy and content with the core areas of my life (career, friends/family, and women) before LL, I just struggled with height dysphoria every day and that nagging psychological constraint has started to wear on me. All I'm seeking here is freedom of height neurosis. I'm currently addicted to wearing lifts which as put a constraint on living life (e.g no beach, pool, no getting too intimate or serious with dating due to concealing lifts, etc.)
3) Any advice for someone doing this alone? My experience is very similar to yours. Doing it solo, keeping it private from friends and family, and staying at Homewood Suites. My biggest fear is the psychological challenge of solitude and loneliness moreso than the physical pain (although I know the physical part will be no walk in the park and will require every ounce of strength.)
Quote from: TheAlchemist on September 16, 2019, 04:41:16 AMAmazing to see two LL veterans drop in multiple years after their operations. For future LLers like myself, times like these give us a rare glimpse into the long term outlook of this procedure.
I want to start off by saying thank you to both programdude and purushrottam for sharing their experiences and diaries with the community, I've read both of your diaries twice over and gleaned several valuable insights along the way. I'm actually sitting alone in my room at Homewood Suites in WPB, my operation for bilateral Stryde femurs with Paley is this Tuesday. Knowing that both of you were in my shoes before this is a huge motivator. You've both shared the good, the bad, and the ugly of this journey and I feel way more informed because of it.....THANK YOU!
@programdude a couple of questions:
1) How did you transition back to normal life post op 3 inches taller in the context of friends, family and coworkers? I know you mentioned you came clean to your roommates as they noticed the height gain and you told your mom, but how about everyone else in your life? Did they notice? In my case, for the past 4 years I've been wearing lifts that have added about 2 inches to my height, I'm shooting for 7 cm here to end up at 5'11.5, (I'm currently about 5'8.5 to 5'9 in the morning) and plan on taking the lifts out post op so I'm hoping I can hide this, but wanted to get your take.
2) When you say you are satisfied with the results, is this more freedom of height dysphoria/neurosis or actual incremental gains in different aspects of life such as dating/career/etc? For me, I was generally happy and content with the core areas of my life (career, friends/family, and women) before LL, I just struggled with height dysphoria every day and that nagging psychological constraint has started to wear on me. All I'm seeking here is freedom of height neurosis. I'm currently addicted to wearing lifts which as put a constraint on living life (e.g no beach, pool, no getting too intimate or serious with dating due to concealing lifts, etc.)
3) Any advice for someone doing this alone? My experience is very similar to yours. Doing it solo, keeping it private from friends and family, and staying at Homewood Suites. My biggest fear is the psychological challenge of solitude and loneliness moreso than the physical pain (although I know the physical part will be no walk in the park and will require every ounce of strength.)
Hey Alchemist, congrats on taking that huge dive! I'm glad documenting my journey here has been helpful to some people, my jaw dropped a bit when I actually realized what its view count was. One day I'll have to swing by there again for some nostalgia.
Hopefully my answers can be helpful since you are indeed in a similar situation to the one I was in.
1. Even without lifts/getting people ready preemptively, those who didn't see me crippled were none the wiser to a surgery being involved, even if they did notice me being taller. Off the top of my head my dad noticed I was taller, and a friend I had been close to but not seen until I was nearly fully recovered noticed but otherwise there were no comments and even in those instances it was just a brief and awed mention before moving on.
Even though LL and your height change are at the forefront of your mind, the same isn't true for those around you, even those who do register a change in height. Because LL is not mainstream peoples minds will automatically brush it away, thinking they are misremembering, you somehow grew, your posture got better, or ironically, even started wearing lifts.
My advice is to just own it mentally. Don't go into each day or interaction in with a defensive mindset. If someone mentions you growing, a confident/slightly happy "Oh yeah? Can't complain about that" response is a lot better than being hesitant and bashful. If you recover quicker than I did which is likely, and you are already wearing lifts I think this will be a breeze for you.
2. It sounds like what you are describing is essentially exactly the position I was in beforehand, though lifts didn't really assuage my dysphoria since there wasn't any actual physical change and the discomfort honestly probably exacerbated it. I've mentioned it before but my life was objectively great before LL-robust social life, good money, no shortage of women, and just in general no doors closed on me due to height. Height was not even on my mind as something I was unhappy with until relatively shortly before I did LL, however when it set in, it was exactly as you describe it.
The good news for you is that considering how much more significantly your method of coping with it has affected your life(limited activities, infringing on intimacy etc.), I would think you would get even MORE of a benefit psychologically than I did. If you feel "right" with your lifts on then I think you will be satisfied with the results, since its no exaggeration to say the dysphoria is gone without a trace.
3. The bad news is people in our shoes definitely are at a disadvantage, no sugar coating that. However if you can handle the physical side I think you should do fine. I don't want to scare you but some parts of the process early on are hard because it is both physical pain coupled with the isolation. Sitting in the shower for an hour or more with two broken legs at the most painful part of the process, with the heat turned up just to distract from the pain was a distinct low point. Since its not your main concern my one physical tip to you will just be to stretch even more than you think you need to, even though there will be plenty of times you'd rather not.
The stay doesn't have to be a lonely one however, and in many ways it can be one of the most unique and socially stimulating experiences you'll have. You will have regular interactions with your PT's, hotel staff, and ideally some fellow LL patients/their families, be it cosmetic or not. Embrace the fact you are in a place where you are free to be open about your situation, it can be interesting discussing with fellow cosmetic LL'ers what brought them to making the decision, as well as talking with patients and their families about things surrounding the process. Some days it might be tempting to be antisocial when you are feeling tired or in pain but its worth it to make connections.
Also if you have people who aren't in your life currently because they moved and aren't part of your family/your social circle striking up a conversation with them could be a good idea, whether it be for general talk or telling them what you were doing. Opening up to the few people I did was nice since it was a little tether to my normal life.
Once you are out of the early part of the process you could invite some girls over, having company in your room can definitely be a breath of fresh air, as well as physical contact etc.
Lastly I would get some shows and books you've been wanting to get through lined up since its the perfect time to get through some of them.
Best of luck man! I'll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for how you're doing.
Quote from: programdude on September 16, 2019, 04:31:13 PMHey Alchemist, congrats on taking that huge dive! I'm glad documenting my journey here has been helpful to some people, my jaw dropped a bit when I actually realized what its view count was. One day I'll have to swing by there again for some nostalgia.
Hopefully my answers can be helpful since you are indeed in a similar situation to the one I was in.
1. Even without lifts/getting people ready preemptively, those who didn't see me crippled were none the wiser to a surgery being involved, even if they did notice me being taller. Off the top of my head my dad noticed I was taller, and a friend I had been close to but not seen until I was nearly fully recovered noticed but otherwise there were no comments and even in those instances it was just a brief and awed mention before moving on.
Even though LL and your height change are at the forefront of your mind, the same isn't true for those around you, even those who do register a change in height. Because LL is not mainstream peoples minds will automatically brush it away, thinking they are misremembering, you somehow grew, your posture got better, or ironically, even started wearing lifts.
My advice is to just own it mentally. Don't go into each day or interaction in with a defensive mindset. If someone mentions you growing, a confident/slightly happy "Oh yeah? Can't complain about that" response is a lot better than being hesitant and bashful. If you recover quicker than I did which is likely, and you are already wearing lifts I think this will be a breeze for you.
2. It sounds like what you are describing is essentially exactly the position I was in beforehand, though lifts didn't really assuage my dysphoria since there wasn't any actual physical change and the discomfort honestly probably exacerbated it. I've mentioned it before but my life was objectively great before LL-robust social life, good money, no shortage of women, and just in general no doors closed on me due to height. Height was not even on my mind as something I was unhappy with until relatively shortly before I did LL, however when it set in, it was exactly as you describe it.
The good news for you is that considering how much more significantly your method of coping with it has affected your life(limited activities, infringing on intimacy etc.), I would think you would get even MORE of a benefit psychologically than I did. If you feel "right" with your lifts on then I think you will be satisfied with the results, since its no exaggeration to say the dysphoria is gone without a trace.
3. The bad news is people in our shoes definitely are at a disadvantage, no sugar coating that. However if you can handle the physical side I think you should do fine. I don't want to scare you but some parts of the process early on are hard because it is both physical pain coupled with the isolation. Sitting in the shower for an hour or more with two broken legs at the most painful part of the process, with the heat turned up just to distract from the pain was a distinct low point. Since its not your main concern my one physical tip to you will just be to stretch even more than you think you need to, even though there will be plenty of times you'd rather not.
The stay doesn't have to be a lonely one however, and in many ways it can be one of the most unique and socially stimulating experiences you'll have. You will have regular interactions with your PT's, hotel staff, and ideally some fellow LL patients/their families, be it cosmetic or not. Embrace the fact you are in a place where you are free to be open about your situation, it can be interesting discussing with fellow cosmetic LL'ers what brought them to making the decision, as well as talking with patients and their families about things surrounding the process. Some days it might be tempting to be antisocial when you are feeling tired or in pain but its worth it to make connections.
Also if you have people who aren't in your life currently because they moved and aren't part of your family/your social circle striking up a conversation with them could be a good idea, whether it be for general talk or telling them what you were doing. Opening up to the few people I did was nice since it was a little tether to my normal life.
Once you are out of the early part of the process you could invite some girls over, having company in your room can definitely be a breath of fresh air, as well as physical contact etc.
Lastly I would get some shows and books you've been wanting to get through lined up since its the perfect time to get through some of them.
Best of luck man! I'll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for how you're doing.
Thank you programdude! Super helpful advice. I gotta say, you have a gift with writing. Every single one of your posts are concise and eloquent.
Quote from: TheAlchemist on September 17, 2019, 02:25:01 AM
Thank you programdude! Super helpful advice. I gotta say, you have a gift with writing. Every single one of your posts are concise and eloquent.
I appreciate that! While not something I do professionally, writing is actually one of my main passions so I'm happy to hear that bleeds through a bit.
It's also ironic since I revisited the beginning of my journal today for the first time and was surprised at how evident the toll of the stress, pain, and drugs was on my writing and mindset. While I usually don't spell check posts rigorously, the amount of spelling errors was worth an eyebrow raise, not to mention some of the things I said in general.
Definitely plan on giving a bit more commentary than that as I re-read things since as insightful as my in the moment thoughts might be, a fully coherent breakdown of things might be more valuable to some.
I've decided what I'm (most likely) going to do is re-read my diary and take some notes as I do, then use those notes as well as my perspective to give an objective breakdown of the LL journey broken into three parts.
The first which would cover as bit about me before LL, my interest in LL coming about, to me pulling the trigger and actually following through with it, as well as my first month or so post OP. The second would cover the second month or so, and the third would go into the end of the process as well as recovery and closing thoughts. It's possible I'll decide to just make it two parts or even divide it up further but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
The format will likely be me going over the events of each period, as well as potentially commenting on my posts in this diary, clarifying and expounding on anything I feel needs it, then wrapping up the analysis with bullet points of advice, warnings, or overall thoughts that someone curious about LL, or who was preparing for their surgery might find most useful.
As useful and interesting as the in the moment and gritty play by play of things can be, I think a fully coherent revisiting of the process will be ultimately more informative, especially after revisiting some of my posts where the effects of either the medication, pain, or lack of sleep were extremely evident. Additionally, because a lot of people steadily drift away from the community completely or have very brief returns, a more in depth look at the whole topic/process of LL from someone who's been in the thick of it but has it far in their rear view mirror might be a slightly rare perspective since for so many people active in the community LL/height neurosis is THE thing in their lives.
Anyways that's the plan! Its been quite surreal reading over the diary so far, and I'm sure digging up some of my memories will be as I continue the read. If anyone has any thoughts on the format or ideas about information I could include that would be helpful to them or others I'm all ears.
I basically want to know your current physical and athletic abilities. Are they now gone back to what they were pre op? Can you fit into the normal world like everyone else? Like run, walk, jump etc. Are you facing any physical difficulties right now ? Also it would be awesome if you could give some tips if a person wants to do LL on his own? Without family or friends getting involved. And I have almost finished your entire diary, it's mind blowing the way you went through your journey..! Thanks for this awesome diary, looking forward to read you analysis.
Quote from: programdude on September 27, 2019, 09:31:38 AMI've decided what I'm (most likely) going to do is re-read my diary and take some notes as I do, then use those notes as well as my perspective to give an objective breakdown of the LL journey broken into three parts.
The first which would cover as bit about me before LL, my interest in LL coming about, to me pulling the trigger and actually following through with it, as well as my first month or so post OP. The second would cover the second month or so, and the third would go into the end of the process as well as recovery and closing thoughts. It's possible I'll decide to just make it two parts or even divide it up further but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
The format will likely be me going over the events of each period, as well as potentially commenting on my posts in this diary, clarifying and expounding on anything I feel needs it, then wrapping up the analysis with bullet points of advice, warnings, or overall thoughts that someone curious about LL, or who was preparing for their surgery might find most useful.
As useful and interesting as the in the moment and gritty play by play of things can be, I think a fully coherent revisiting of the process will be ultimately more informative, especially after revisiting some of my posts where the effects of either the medication, pain, or lack of sleep were extremely evident. Additionally, because a lot of people steadily drift away from the community completely or have very brief returns, a more in depth look at the whole topic/process of LL from someone who's been in the thick of it but has it far in their rear view mirror might be a slightly rare perspective since for so many people active in the community LL/height neurosis is THE thing in their lives.
Anyways that's the plan! Its been quite surreal reading over the diary so far, and I'm sure digging up some of my memories will be as I continue the read. If anyone has any thoughts on the format or ideas about information I could include that would be helpful to them or others I'm all ears.
Amazing! Really looking forward to this. I don't there has ever been a comprehensive revisting of the entire LL process from an experienced veteran. Would love if you talked through how LL enhanced your day to day life as well as elements where it may have downgraded your day to day life post full recovery. Since you seem to have had been content with your life pre LL and looked LL to enhance it (rather than escape a miserable life) I'd love to hear your perspective here. Also, now that you are on the other side of freedom from height neurosis, in hindsight, would LL have been the only solution for height neurosis or would you advise on alternative methods (e.g therapy?)
Quote from: Dreamer57 on September 27, 2019, 12:27:06 PMI basically want to know your current physical and athletic abilities. Are they now gone back to what they were pre op? Can you fit into the normal world like everyone else? Like run, walk, jump etc. Are you facing any physical difficulties right now ? Also it would be awesome if you could give some tips if a person wants to do LL on his own? Without family or friends getting involved. And I have almost finished your entire diary, it's mind blowing the way you went through your journey..! Thanks for this awesome diary, looking forward to read you analysis.
All good suggestions from you and the alchemist!
The short answer to your question in terms of physical ability is that my athleticism is certainly not close to pre op in terms of running/sprinting but aside from the irritation from the hardware from my fracture, in my day to day I am completely normal, don't even have LL pop into my head, and certainly to others look completely normal. I believe 6 CM would probably see a quite fast recovery to something close to 100% but really think people expecting to return to sports after 8 CM are playing a dangerous game.
If someone is going solo the main advice is to be ready and over prepare. Even when going with the best money can buy things can go wrong and it will still be taxing. Also if you are just barely coming up with surgery costs then it really is best to hold off. Things can go wrong, recovery can take awhile and cause delays in work, and insurance might not cover your meds which can all equate to more strain on your bank accounts.
As for your curiosity Alchemist, again I will incorporate a more thorough answer in my actual post, but in my case there were certainly significant short term downgrades, however after recovering aside from the soon to be removed hardware irritation there are none. I cant really conceive of therapy helping, but I do think people need to think really long and hard how badly they want it. As my diary illustrates, I spent a ton of money and brutalized myself, had a bumpy recovery and still think it was extremely worth it even this long after the initial relief of being unburdened by height neurosis when viewing it from an objective lens.
It's hard to say if anything could have assuaged it, or if it would have faded naturally to an extent, and that the money and time spent on eliminating the neurosis could have netted a more happy me but it really is hard to picture.
That being said I always try and be careful since I am quite sure there are people who are suffering temporary body image issues, have mental issues that not even the LL would remedy, or are in a situation financially where they would create a far bigger problem for themselves- A person with a social circle that they truly wanted to keep 100% in the dark, had to return to work on a set day after an estimated recovery date, or who hadn't had complications budgeted into things could easily find themself in a pit of depression from strain from many angles.
At the end of the day when someone who is a fit for LL does it, it is a respectable way of changing their stars, but when someone isn't its a recipe for disaster.
Quote from: programdude on October 03, 2019, 08:55:21 AMAll good suggestions from you and the alchemist!
The short answer to your question in terms of physical ability is that my athleticism is certainly not close to pre op in terms of running/sprinting but aside from the irritation from the hardware from my fracture, in my day to day I am completely normal, don't even have LL pop into my head, and certainly to others look completely normal. I believe 6 CM would probably see a quite fast recovery to something close to 100% but really think people expecting to return to sports after 8 CM are playing a dangerous game.
If someone is going solo the main advice isto be ready and over prepare. Even when going with the best money can buy things can go wrong and it will still be taxing. Also if you are just barely coming up with surgery costs then it really is best to hold off. Things can go wrong, recovery can take awhile and cause delays in work, and insurance might not cover your meds which can all equate to more strain on your bank accounts.
As for your curiosity Alchemist, again I will incorporate a more thorough answer in my actual post, but in my case there were certainly significant short term downgrades, however after recovering aside from the soon to be removed hardware irritation there are none. I cant really conceive of therapy helping, but I do think people need to think really long and hard how badly they want it. As my diary illustrates, I spent a ton of money and brutalized myself, had a bumpy recovery and still think it was extremely worth it even this long after the initial relief of being unburdened by height neurosis when viewing it from an objective lens.
It's hard to say if anything could have assuaged it, or if it would have faded naturally to an extent, and that the money and time spent on eliminating the neurosis could have netted a more happy me but it really is hard to picture.
That being said I always try and be careful since I am quite sure there are people who are suffering temporary body image issues, have mental issues that not even the LL would remedy, or are in a situation financially where they would create a far bigger problem for themselves- A person with a social circle that they truly wanted to keep 100% in the dark, had to return to work on a set day after an estimated recovery date, or who hadn't had complications budgeted into things could easily find themself in a pit of depression from strain from many angles.
At the end of the day when someone who is a fit for LL does it, it is a respectable way of changing their stars, but when someone isn't its a recipe for disaster.
It's really fantastic your height dysphoria is 100% cured!
It's interesting how this plays out sometimes.
Sometimes a 5'3 guy lengthens to 5'6 and ends up 100% cured of height dysphoria.
Maybe a 5'11 guy with alot of tall people in in his life lengthens to 6 feet and ends up 100% cured of height dysphoria.
Or a 5'3 guy lengthens to 5'6 and feels better but is still not quite happy.
There's maybe one or two people on this forum who are, deep inside, wishing they could compete with 6'-6'3 handsome guys at night clubs - people who feel the brunt of the emotions associated with this inequality are completely screwed I think. In 2019, we have no means to get the vast majority of people anywhere near that territory and it really fks people over when their life experiences cause them to compare themselves to such lucky men. An unwinnable fight. Good to hear that you are 100% free of body image issues.
What is something you would recommend people buy to help make the lengthening process a bit more convenient aside from walkers/wheelchairs/standard stuff? Ex: some people said that buying body wipes was convenient for when they wanted to clean themselves without walking to the bathroom.
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