Quote from: SeekingSentimetres on August 07, 2017, 01:10:41 PMBut this surgery will NEVER improve your physical function. This in addition to the fact that the majority, yes the majority, of short statured people (that are not classified as having dwarfism or restricted growth) can live their lives normally without even considering this surgery makes it purely cosmetic regardless of your justification
Normal is not only a matter of function.
If socially you face disadvantages due to your appearance, then a cosmetic surgery is not for making your life perfect or for vanity but for making you live normal.
So of course it is not the same for a 5.5 man to do LL compared to a 5.11 one.
If Monegal or any other LL doctor think that these two patients are the same only because they do LL and think it is good to increase the price for both of them, it is ok.
I'll just go to an other doctor who thinks more logically.
Limb lengthening with Fitbone
Quote from: Body Builder on August 07, 2017, 02:48:34 PMNormal is not only a matter of function.
If socially you face disadvantages due to your appearance, then a cosmetic surgery is not for making your life perfect or for vanity but for making you live normal.
So of course it is not the same for a 5.5 man to do LL compared to a 5.11 one.
If Monegal or any other LL doctor think that these two patients are the same only because they do LL and think it is good to increase the price for both of them, it is ok.
I'll just go to an other doctor who thinks more logically.
LL is a cosmetic surgery, it doesn't matter if you start as 1.68 m or 1.80 m. The fact that the 1.68m man has actual social advantages in increasing his height and that the 1.80 one is only a special snowflake that wants to be taller than everyone/the majority to feel better about themselves DOES NOT change the cosmetic nature of the procedure. A non-cosmetic LL is the case of a limb discrepancy in which a person has to wear ugly enormous shoes just to walk close to normal and has chronic back pain because of this. The latter case is a non cosmetic LL, because it improves function while CLL does not regardless of initial height.
It is also naive and stupid to think that a doctor should increase the prices for a 5'10 man vs a 5'5 man. For a doctor, both cases are cosmetic and there is no difference from a medical point of view of why one should be more entitled than the other. A doctor with strong ethics would not perform such a risky procedure for a normal functional person.
Dr. Monegal has every right to increase the price of the surgery. Keep in mind that because of inflation prices of everything go up (manufacture of the nail, hospital expenses, etc). Also, unlike his initial bad cases, now I think he has gained experience and because of this his "worth" as a LL doctor is going up. The same happened when Dr. Paley started doing CLL compared to now (he doubled his price).
Very well explained LLSouthAmerica! I agree with everything you said.
Bodybuilder, in your country 200 years ago, you would have been perfect average even before LL! So you are not below average because you are short but because the average height increased a lot in recent years. If all people of your height were taller, then the average height would be even higher, which makes everyone feel shorter!
On the other hand short people bring the average down, and thus benefit everyone else.
Fitbone vs Precise II. Dr. Monegal can operate with both but prefers Fitbone. Why would you think Precise II is better?
Quote from: helloworld on August 07, 2017, 07:35:05 PMVery well explained LLSouthAmerica! I agree with everything you said.
Bodybuilder, in your country 200 years ago, you would have been perfect average even before LL! So you are not below average because you are short but because the average height increased a lot in recent years. If all people of your height were taller, then the average height would be even higher, which makes everyone feel shorter!
On the other hand short people bring the average down, and thus benefit everyone else.
Fitbone vs Precise II. Dr. Monegal can operate with both but prefers Fitbone. Why would you think Precise II is better?
I insist that a cosmetic surgery is not the same for anyone.
No LLsouthamerica, LL is not just a cosmetic procedure for a 5.3 tall man, it is necessary for him to live normally.
A 5.3 man who lives in the fringe because noone respect him and can't date any woman is not doing LL to become handsome but to live more normal.
Not only people with leg discrepancies have true true reasons to do LL. And if someone does a cosmetic surgery just to live normal, then there is no difference with someone who does a surgery to fix a health problem and live normal too.
Health and social problems are two aspects of living normally.
Helloworld, I explained you that even LL was for free, only a few people have the guts to do it.
So increasing the price is not good for someone like me who wants another one LL and has proven that he has the guts to do it, because the more money I spend there the less I can spend in imoroving my life in other aspects.
Maybe you have plenty of money but I don't and price play a big role for me.
Finally, precise 2 is superior because it is more reliable (your fitbone stopped working and you needed another surgery and maybe you'll have to pay for something that is not your fault and fitbone stopped working in musicmaker too and other patients so it is really unreliable), it has more weight bearing capabilities and it can go backwards.
Is there anything that fitbone does better than precise 2?
Also, I wonder what is the price for doing LL with precise 2 and Monegal, because there we can see exactly if he is cheaper that Pili who operates in europe too.
Quote from: Body Builder on August 07, 2017, 11:05:26 PMI insist that a cosmetic surgery is not the same for anyone.
No LLsouthamerica, LL is not just a cosmetic procedure for a 5.3 tall man, it is necessary for him to live normally.
A 5.3 man who lives in the fringe because noone respect him and can't date any woman is not doing LL to become handsome but to live more normal.
Not only people with leg discrepancies have true true reasons to do LL. And if someone does a cosmetic surgery just to live normal, then there is no difference with someone who does a surgery to fix a health problem and live normal too.
Health and social problems are two aspects of living normally.
Of course, it is not the same for everyone, as you said a person with a beautiful nose who undergoes rhinoplasty is not the same as a person with a huge ugly nose which everyone looks with disgust. But LL is not necessary, people can live normally at any height; sure with some social problems, as an ugly, deformed, weird looking person might have. Nobody NEEDS CLL.
Leg discrepancy is the only true true reason to do LL.
It is a disagreement on terminology but you are wrong. A cosmetic surgery means "surgery in which the principal purpose is to improve the appearance" which is exactly the case of CLL surgery in which the main result is improved physical appearance and its benefits (women, social standing, etc) NOT recovery of normal function.
Quote from: Body Builder on August 07, 2017, 11:05:26 PM
Also, I wonder what is the price for doing LL with precise 2 and Monegal, because there we can see exactly if he is cheaper that Pili who operates in europe too.
I think this would be a good question to ask him! So just ask him.
Dr. Monegal has told me that there are advantages to Precise II but others for Fitbone. But I cannot tell you exactly. So this would be another question you could ask.
Bodybuilder, I agree that society discriminates against short men. I would discrimination on height is much bigger than that on gender, religion, or race.
But still when you are lengthening your legs you only help yourself, not society. ANd if everyone were to do the same, then height becomes more and nobody has gained anything.
Quote from: helloworld on August 08, 2017, 02:59:59 PMI think this would be a good question to ask him! So just ask him.
Dr. Monegal has told me that there are advantages to Precise II but others for Fitbone. But I cannot tell you exactly. So this would be another question you could ask.
Bodybuilder, I agree that society discriminates against short men. I would discrimination on height is much bigger than that on gender, religion, or race.
But still when you are lengthening your legs you only help yourself, not society. ANd if everyone were to do the same, then height becomes more and nobody has gained anything.
And with fixing a health problem you help yourself and not society.
Hyoothetically speaking yes, if anyone did LL the average height would increase.
But as I said you before, only a few people could handle LL, even the short ones who really benefit a lot from it.
So in reality, price increase just make LL harder for the few of us who are willing to do it. Nothing else.
Precise is much better in cases of non union you can reverse and it doesn't fail
The child in Somalia story is bull they told me he tricked into people without resources and then made them pay.
Quote from: Body Builder on August 08, 2017, 04:04:16 PMAnd with fixing a health problem you help yourself and not society.
Hyoothetically speaking yes, if anyone did LL the average height would increase.
But as I said you before, only a few people could handle LL, even the short ones who really benefit a lot from it.
So in reality, price increase just make LL harder for the few of us who are willing to do it. Nothing else.
OK. I see!
I understand that people have a real need for it and would even sacrifice health for gaining height.
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