LON Femur - broken bones not straight

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Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on August 29, 2022, 03:56:13 AMThe internal nail is only attached at one end.  It's not holding anyhing in place now.

interesting post from an LL veteran

your statement is indeed correct - the nail is attached on one end, but the job of holding everything together falls on the external frame. nothing can move in any direction but the direction of the frame

and the frame is installed in a way that will push the bones inwards

so then when they remove the frame first they will screw the bottom of the internal nail and then unscrew the external frame

otherwise if they remove the frame before screwing the nail the body will immediately pull the bone back and destroy the gained centimeters

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The reason I'm not pessimistic about this case is that the device isn't strong enough to hold the leg completely stationary.  Other forces like muscle resistance can influence alignment, so what that physiotherapist said will happen is possible.  The resistance currently pulling it inward may get canceled out by opposite forces from other muscles as they recover, or diminished as the muscles that are providing the resistance now stretch more.

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Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on August 29, 2022, 05:05:33 AMThe reason I'm not pessimistic about this case is that the device isn't strong enough to hold the leg completely stationary.  Other forces like muscle resistance can influence alignment, so what that physiotherapist said will happen is possible.  The resistance currently pulling it inward may get canceled out by opposite forces from other muscles as they recover, or diminished as the muscles that are providing the resistance now stretch more.

I sincerely hope for rafi's sake that you're correct, but me personally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).

Its just NEGLIGENT INSTALLATION at the first surgery, plain and simple.

Also, the monorail technology doesn't provide adjustment after installation like a TSF frame or illizarov - obviously these frames are unusable on femur surgery

LON Femur is a stupid method to choose when internal nails exist. People just have to put an extra year or two of saving and get an internal femur surgery instead of rolling the dice on a LON Femur


With the current hardware there is no point in time when the surgeon can adjust the bone back to normal alignment, not that he wants to, we heard what rafi said, buldu doesnt see any problem. And how would he see any problem, when we know from Hasaki's case that he would remove an external fixator and screw in the internal nail while the patient has bilateral non union and a raging case of acute osteomyelitis.


But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink

good luck rafi

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Quote from: boklecrt on August 29, 2022, 05:21:40 AM
I sincerely hope for rafi's sake that you're correct, but me personally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).

Its just NEGLIGENT INSTALLATION at the first surgery, plain and simple.

Also, the monorail technology doesn't provide adjustment after installation like a TSF frame or illizarov - obviously these frames are unusable on femur surgery

LON Femur is a stupid method to choose when internal nails exist. People just have to put an extra year or two of saving and get an internal femur surgery instead of rolling the dice on a LON Femur


With the current hardware there is no point in time when the surgeon can adjust the bone back to normal alignment, not that he wants to, we heard what rafi said, buldu doesnt see any problem. And how would he see any problem, when we know from Hasaki's case that he would remove an external fixator and screw in the internal nail while the patient has bilateral non union and a raging case of acute osteomyelitis.


But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink

good luck rafi

Do you think LON Tibia could have the same problem? Regarding bow legs and X legsv

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Quote from: boklecrt on August 29, 2022, 05:21:40 AM
But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink

good luck rafi

Well, i will email them to ask for a 2nd opinion. i haven’t yet because i tried to be positive and hope that i might not need another surgery.
If they will say that i will need another surgery to fix it, probably I  won’t be able to afford it in other place than in turkey.

Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on August 29, 2022, 03:56:13 AMThe internal nail is only attached at one end.  It's not holding anyhing in place now.

The nail at the moment can move inside my bone. While exercising, i can feel it moving in my bone. i believe  that if i can stay with legs wide open during x-rays, miss alignment will be gone. but we will see the x-rays after removal.

Quote from: shortisnotfun on August 29, 2022, 01:54:03 AMBest of luck man, and looking forward to your progress. How are you doing so far and what's your length achieved now?

Doing well, i lengthened 6 cm so far; i expected more pain at the end (that’s what other pacients told me after reaching +5) but either I got used to the pain or the fact that i got taller makes me not feel the pain so much (being happy seeing results)  i hated and regretted this surgery at the beginning but now, just seeing myself taller than people who were taller than me before really changed my point of view and i’m glad i did it. I hope i’m not speaking to early and i won’t have any major complications until the end.

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rafi thats very unwise on your part, being positive and putting your head in the sand like a flamingo will not fix ongoing complications. You cant wish away bone misalignment, the more you pull the frame the more it diverts from the neutral axis. Noone said you need to go spend 100 000 usd on a new surgery, the whole reason we told you to contact these doctors - assayag, paley, rozbruch, giotikas, donghoon(although he doesnt respond to emails apparently), parihar, birkholtz, betz even is because these people have seen thousands of cases combined and are well equipped to deal with any misalignment issues such as yours.

Then when you get the opinion of 2-3 surgeons, if they dont tell you how they'd fix it over simple emails, you stick your hand deep in your wallet and fork out $200 for a skype consult with a few of them and ask them to explain to you in details how they will fix your legs

And then you take this information and discuss it with a good ORTHOPEDIC(doesnt have to be limb lengthening) turkish surgeon thats covered under your insurance or whatever the healthcare system is in turkey. You agree on what to do and you go and get it fixed for free or co-paid

If a bunch of these doctors say you got nothing to worry about - great!

In the end of the day, its your legs and your future mobility, better safe than sorry amirite buddy boyo

Also, you better make damn sure you got union on those xrays before you take the frame off. You don't wanna become hasaki #2

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Quote from: boklecrt on August 29, 2022, 05:21:40 AMpersonally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).

Because the rod is presently providing neither of those things for the bone, which is why muscles were able to pull it out of alignment in the first place.

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I think rafi case is similar to LLprime3 .

LLPprime3 topic.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=69283.0

Images of LLPprime3
https://ibb.co/SPx8YJq
https://ibb.co/1TCMk0S

The problem with LLPprime3 was bow-legs, not X-legs.

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Quote from: maison on August 30, 2022, 01:20:26 AMI think rafi case is similar to LLprime3 .

LLPprime3 topic.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=69283.0

Images of LLPprime3
https://ibb.co/SPx8YJq
https://ibb.co/1TCMk0S

The problem with LLPprime3 was bow-legs, not X-legs.

its great when an intelligent person writes a diary, its a pleasure to read

his end result xray looks great compared to his pre-op xray, they fixed him back to normal as perfectly as it could've been done

hope he fixed his walk in the end


as a side note, if you notice his femur xray, the insertion of the nail and the placement of his fixator is again suboptimal which aggravated his pre-op bow legs. i suppose buldu doesnt really go for ultra precision when doing his multiple surgeries a day. "close enough"

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Quote from: boklecrt on August 30, 2022, 02:21:24 AM
as a side note, if you notice his femur xray, the insertion of the nail and the placement of his fixator is again suboptimal which aggravated his pre-op bow legs. i suppose buldu doesnt really go for ultra precision when doing his multiple surgeries a day. "close enough"

i couldn’t find in his post what surgery he did to correct his bow legs 🤔