Mod Note: The OP (original poster) has request to include a footnote warning against HGH. do read the entire topic for the full details on HGH .
" Some patients may want to inject themselves with HGH because they think they can just take it and it'll make them taller. "
This topic is a merge of two topics by the OP
Original Post as follow
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Hi LL Forum! I have been lurking this forum for a while but decided to get more involved here.
I am considering LL however I wanted to know your opinions.
Height: 5'7 (171cm)
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'10 (179cm)
Inseam: 25-26" - Finding trousers is a nightmare as most places in Europe start at 30" inseam clothing for men.
Femur (measured in an MRI scan): 35cm
Tibia: 28cm
Chest: 42 inches (No I'm not very muscular)
Weight: 80kg / 176lbs (17% body fat, weight comes from wide and large upper body).
Rationale: I don't want to go over 5cm for femurs as it appears to me that you start getting complications after that. With tibiae, 5cm will take slightly longer to heal however I do not mind losing some explosiveness. My aim is to maximise recovery pre-LL so I will not be greedy due to the risks involved. I am considering doing 5cm on femurs (internal STRYDE) and 4-5cm on tibiae (internal STRYDE) so the biomechanics are not affected greatly due to the 0.8 ratio between the tibiae and the femurs. My priorities are safety and maximum recovery, not massive gains (i.e. 12-16cm+) which increase risks exponentially. I'm also currently waiting for STRYDE to return as it has full weight bearing capabilities, unlike PRECISE 2.2.
Problems: I am in the 18-25 age bracket (looking to keep some anonymity). My growth plates (epiphysis) are still open according to a radiologist. The scan was taken 3 months ago and the growth plates have shown no signs of closure. Currently unsure when it would be better to go through with my plans for LL. Is it worth taking somatropin/human growth hormone and wait until they close?
I wanted to ask any veterans what exercises I should do in order to maximise my recovery. What kind of stretches should I do in order to reduce the likelihood of complications arising?
Due to having a really long upper body, I was wondering if there is any point worrying about proportions. I am still growing so I am using HGH (grew 0.5cm in 2 months of use) so I can minimise the amount of lengthening needed.
I wanted to do some mock-ups however I am not sure how to go about it. Can someone give me some information on how I could do this?
For context, I am a southern European male living in a really tall region of Western Europe. Most women my age are around my height. I am tired of all the height remarks and short leg comments from both genders. To add salt to the wound, I lost count of the times that I heard "I would date you/hook up with you but you're too short". I want to reach the average so I do not have to compensate to be respected by both genders.
Paley Institute | Bilateral Femur Surgery | Dr Dr Deszczyński & Dr Albrewczyński
Quote from: ReadRothbard on December 29, 2021, 10:48:05 PMMy gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.
With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.
Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal 
.
Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.
Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.
I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.
I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.
I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members 
.
Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 29, 2021, 07:05:06 PMI have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?
HGH is essentially a natural hormone in your body which stimulates growth. If your growth plates are open you can take synthetic HGH to increase your height. This can be done if you have low HGH levels. If you do not have low HGH levels and/or your growth plates are closed, it can cause serious complications and growth will not occur.
I will see a public endocrinologist soon to see if I can get some extra HGH. It would be a nice top-up to what I am getting privately (and it should hopefully boost my height). The private endocrinologist deals more with HGH for aesthetic reasons rather than diagnosing problems.
Yeah, by average I mean my country's average.
It is better to wait for the weight-bearing STRYDE nail. It appears to be the best one so might as well go for it.
I am thinking of going to Paley due to his experience. What about you?
Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 29, 2021, 11:16:49 PMI just realized I asked the doctor when the post name is quadrilateral w/Paley lol
No worries at all haha, it happens.
Quote from: ReadRothbard on December 30, 2021, 11:41:54 PMYou should absolutely put your money towards treating any HGH deficiencies or any other such hormone-related problems, first. It's very likely you won't even need LL if you're treated correctly. I unfortunately didn't address my precocious puberty growing up, and as a result, I lost out on 5-6 inches that I need LL to regain. If you work quickly, you might be able to avoid this mistake & LL entirely.
I feel like it will be a race against time when it comes to HGH and growth plates.
I’ll probably see if I can get some from the public system for cheaper so I can buy many more pens and therefore increase the concentration. The biggest problem will be convincing my GP. However, I assume that with all the evidence that I got from the private clinic it should be enough to get it sorted. 0.5 height increase in 6 weeks with low dosages of HGH in addition to odd proportions should HOPEFULLY raise some eyebrows.
Hey fellow European! I decided to update this thread.
After taking Human Growth Hormone (HGH) also known as Somatropin, my height increased from 5'7 to 5'8 with consistent use since October. My dosage has increased from 3IU to 6IU.
I will maximise my growth (projected to hit 178-181cm which is 5'10-5'11), I will then then pay for bilateral femurs (4cm gain) at the Schoen clinic under Dr Ian Bacarese-Hamilton for a final 6'0-6'1 height. I am assuming that my growth plates will not close before 5'10-11. If they do not, I will only do 4cm femurs as the recovery is fantastic relative to 5cm+.
Surgery should occur in the summer of 2024.
Quote from: five_six on February 25, 2022, 11:26:53 PMConsider yourself lucky, I definitely wish my parents and I knew about growth hormone before my growth plates closed. I'll need one more surgery than you, but hopefully we can both make it to 6'1!
I was fortunate enough to learn about LL when I was 18. I was able to discover that my legs did not grow for whatever reason so I'm able to maximise my growth while they're still open. I am even likely to get free HGH as I will see an endocrinologist in the public system in the first week of April!
My ideal scenario would be growth plates closing at 6'1, but if I get 5'10-5'11 I'll consider myself blessed.
Let me know how the surgery goes! What are your reasons for doing LL? Do you have a thread which I can follow? You got this brother!
Quote from: five_six on February 25, 2022, 11:41:47 PMIIRC, most guys' growth plates close around 17, so it's cool that you got lucky on that front. For me, when I was 16 the doctor showed that I haven't grown in a year. Got xrays on my left knee and wrist, turns out my growth plates are fused. Enter a ton of height dysphoria and realizing that you'll end up shorter than your own sister + a ton of your peers.
I'm 17 now, and fortunate enough to have a family that can afford two surgeries. The timing works out pretty well too, allowing me to recover from the first surgery over summer break, then waiting a year to get the second surgery. I'll definitely start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June this year. Fingers crossed I'm 6'1 in a year and a half, which is my ideal height imo.
First thing: you have an Operation Wildfire medal as your pfp, glad to see other CSGO players xD
Yeah I was really lucky in this aspect, the leg ones are the first growth plates to close. Then the upper-body follows and ends at the spine. THEORETICALLY I have 2-3 years until all growth plates close, so fingers crossed that I will reach my goal without surgery!
I was actually misdiagnosed by the radiologist. He claimed that they were closed (but they looked open) so I got a second opinion. The other radiologist claimed that they were open so I disputed the diagnosis. After the review, it was found that they were actually open. So I am quite lucky!
I wonder if I'll be lucky enough for it to close at 6'1 (theoretically it can close now, which is less than ideal). If that happens, I will probably use the surgery money for tooth whitening and other stuff.
However, I was unlucky in another aspect: I was projected to hit 6'3 until I was 10. However, I never had a growth spurt so I continued to grow linearly. Growth patterns are usually linear, then the growth spurt occurs and then it stops. In my case, there was no growth spurt so I kept growing linearly until 5'7, so my bone age is actually in the 14-15 region.
I am stretching, sleeping properly, and exercising a lot as I saw some medical journals claiming that it helped with maximising growth. I am also drinking a lot more diary products (milk, cheese, supplements, yoghurts, etc.) as it resembles the Dutch diet. They must be doing something correct as it's clearly working for me.
My reason for LL was because I live in a tall region in Europe so I get mocked over it ("Napoleon complex"). If I reached 6'1 I'd be above average and would be taken much more seriously socially, romantically and career-wise. I see this as an investment as taller people earn more according to international studies so I'll make my money back eventually.
Once you get in college it starts to bother you as there are so many tall guys. As soon as college started, that's when I started the LL research. And here I am now.
Do you have specific goals for tibia and femurs? Btw do you plan on creating a diary?
Quote from: five_six on February 26, 2022, 01:00:43 AMReally cool to meet another cs player on here, hopefully I can hit faceit lvl 10 sometime this year lol.
It's crazy how genetics and growth works, with delays and such. I personally know someone at my school who's always been shorter than me, but over quarantine grew to 6'2. Crazy stuff. Fingers crossed with good diet and discipline you can make it to 6'1+ without surgery! That'd be the dream. It's definitely a solid height in northern Europe, US too.
I'm going to try to hit 8cm on both the femurs and tibias. Given my age, current flexibility, and time, I should at least have a fighting chance. And yep, I plan to start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June.
I haven't played in ages but do you want to have a match sometime? It'd be fun xD
I feel like genetics is the ceiling, the growth itself can be affected by the environment (exercise, nutrition, stress, sleep, stretching, and sun exposure).
That's a very interesting case, some people grow so quickly in a matter of months! I'm really excited for next year as I'll be able to tell whether I hit my goal or not. I guess I'm young enough to brush it off as a late growth spurt. I feel like people demonise you for using HGH / doing LL surgery, Messi is a prime example of being mocked for HGH.
6'1 would be so sweet, I'm burning all my savings so I can reach that goal. Let's see how it goes I suppose!
8cm on femurs + 8cm on tibiae is a very ambitious goal. Are you not concerned about the side effects? Have you considered something along the lines of Paley's option 5 (https://limblengthening.org/lengthening-strategies/)? It would be a lot safer than 2 surgeries!
Quote from: five_six on February 26, 2022, 02:35:52 AMI private messaged you my steam profile if you want to add me!
I totally understand how 8cm femur AND 8cm tibia (especially tibia) is very uncommon, but again, given that I'm younger and probably more flexible than most CLLers, and am doing both surgeries one year apart, I believe I have a chance at this. Meck and MyEvolution are good examples of people who lengthened "more than recommended." Also as shown in my previous posts, my proportions won't look too weird afterward. I already have longish arms, and apparently longer legs looks better on a guy anyway. We'll see what happens!
Fair enough buddy. Have you considered doing 4cm femurs 4cm tibia 2x? You’d be able to see if 16cm is really for you! I’m only concerned that you might get an injury from 8cm at once in a bone. Look after your health! 4cm in each segment with HGH, hydrotherapy and a good diet twice sounds a lot safer. Dr Ian said that 4cm as a one-off is possible without complications. Best of luck with your journey!
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