Paley Institute | Bilateral Femur Surgery | Dr Dr Deszczyński & Dr Albrewczyński

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Posts: 180

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 29, 2021, 5:51 pm

#1

Mod Note: The OP (original poster) has request to include a footnote warning against HGH. do read the entire topic for the full details on HGH .

" Some patients may want to inject themselves with HGH because they think they can just take it and it'll make them taller. "

This topic is a merge of two topics by the OP

Original Post as follow
===
Hi LL Forum! I have been lurking this forum for a while but decided to get more involved here.

I am considering LL however I wanted to know your opinions.

Height: 5'7 (171cm)
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'10 (179cm)
Inseam: 25-26" - Finding trousers is a nightmare as most places in Europe start at 30" inseam clothing for men.
Femur (measured in an MRI scan): 35cm
Tibia: 28cm
Chest: 42 inches (No I'm not very muscular)
Weight: 80kg / 176lbs (17% body fat, weight comes from wide and large upper body).

Rationale: I don't want to go over 5cm for femurs as it appears to me that you start getting complications after that. With tibiae, 5cm will take slightly longer to heal however I do not mind losing some explosiveness. My aim is to maximise recovery pre-LL so I will not be greedy due to the risks involved. I am considering doing 5cm on femurs (internal STRYDE) and 4-5cm on tibiae (internal STRYDE) so the biomechanics are not affected greatly due to the 0.8 ratio between the tibiae and the femurs. My priorities are safety and maximum recovery, not massive gains (i.e. 12-16cm+) which increase risks exponentially. I'm also currently waiting for STRYDE to return as it has full weight bearing capabilities, unlike PRECISE 2.2.

Problems: I am in the 18-25 age bracket (looking to keep some anonymity). My growth plates (epiphysis) are still open according to a radiologist. The scan was taken 3 months ago and the growth plates have shown no signs of closure. Currently unsure when it would be better to go through with my plans for LL. Is it worth taking somatropin/human growth hormone and wait until they close?

I wanted to ask any veterans what exercises I should do in order to maximise my recovery. What kind of stretches should I do in order to reduce the likelihood of complications arising?

Due to having a really long upper body, I was wondering if there is any point worrying about proportions. I am still growing so I am using HGH (grew 0.5cm in 2 months of use) so I can minimise the amount of lengthening needed.

I wanted to do some mock-ups however I am not sure how to go about it. Can someone give me some information on how I could do this?

For context, I am a southern European male living in a really tall region of Western Europe. Most women my age are around my height. I am tired of all the height remarks and short leg comments from both genders. To add salt to the wound, I lost count of the times that I heard "I would date you/hook up with you but you're too short". I want to reach the average so I do not have to compensate to be respected by both genders.

Edit Post

Mod Note: The OP (original poster) has request to include a footnote warning against HGH. do read the entire topic for the full details on HGH .

" Some patients may want to inject themselves with HGH because they think they can just take it and it'll make them taller. "

This topic is a merge of two topics by the OP

Original Post as follow
===
Hi LL Forum! I have been lurking this forum for a while but decided to get more involved here.

I am considering LL however I wanted to know your opinions.

Height: 5'7 (171cm)
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'10 (179cm)
Inseam: 25-26" - Finding trousers is a nightmare as most places in Europe start at 30" inseam clothing for men.
Femur (measured in an MRI scan): 35cm
Tibia: 28cm
Chest: 42 inches (No I'm not very muscular)
Weight: 80kg / 176lbs (17% body fat, weight comes from wide and large upper body).

Rationale: I don't want to go over 5cm for femurs as it appears to me that you start getting complications after that. With tibiae, 5cm will take slightly longer to heal however I do not mind losing some explosiveness. My aim is to maximise recovery pre-LL so I will not be greedy due to the risks involved. I am considering doing 5cm on femurs (internal STRYDE) and 4-5cm on tibiae (internal STRYDE) so the biomechanics are not affected greatly due to the 0.8 ratio between the tibiae and the femurs. My priorities are safety and maximum recovery, not massive gains (i.e. 12-16cm+) which increase risks exponentially. I'm also currently waiting for STRYDE to return as it has full weight bearing capabilities, unlike PRECISE 2.2.

Problems: I am in the 18-25 age bracket (looking to keep some anonymity). My growth plates (epiphysis) are still open according to a radiologist. The scan was taken 3 months ago and the growth plates have shown no signs of closure. Currently unsure when it would be better to go through with my plans for LL. Is it worth taking somatropin/human growth hormone and wait until they close?

I wanted to ask any veterans what exercises I should do in order to maximise my recovery. What kind of stretches should I do in order to reduce the likelihood of complications arising?

Due to having a really long upper body, I was wondering if there is any point worrying about proportions. I am still growing so I am using HGH (grew 0.5cm in 2 months of use) so I can minimise the amount of lengthening needed.

I wanted to do some mock-ups however I am not sure how to go about it. Can someone give me some information on how I could do this?

For context, I am a southern European male living in a really tall region of Western Europe. Most women my age are around my height. I am tired of all the height remarks and short leg comments from both genders. To add salt to the wound, I lost count of the times that I heard "I would date you/hook up with you but you're too short". I want to reach the average so I do not have to compensate to be respected by both genders.

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M

Masteryourlife

Member

Posts: 67

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 29, 2021, 7:05 pm

#2

I have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?

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R

ReadRothbard

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Posts: 411

Joined: Aug 2014

Posted on Dec 29, 2021, 10:48 pm

#3

My gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.

With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.

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M

Masteryourlife

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Posts: 458

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 29, 2021, 11:16 pm

#4

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 29, 2021, 07:05:06 PMI have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?

I just realized I asked the doctor when the post name is quadrilateral w/Paley lol

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I

IgnoredByMods

Member

Posts: 472

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 11:51 am

#5

Quote from: ReadRothbard on December 29, 2021, 10:48:05 PMMy gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.

With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.

Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal

Paley Institute | Bilateral Femur Surgery | Dr Dr Deszczyński & Dr Albrewczyński

.

Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.

Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.

I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.

I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.

I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members

.

Edit Post

Quote from: ReadRothbard on December 29, 2021, 10:48:05 PMMy gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.

With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.

Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal

.

Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.

Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.

I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.

I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.

I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members

.

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I

IgnoredByMods

Member

Posts: 407

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 12:02 pm

#6

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 29, 2021, 07:05:06 PMI have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?

HGH is essentially a natural hormone in your body which stimulates growth. If your growth plates are open you can take synthetic HGH to increase your height. This can be done if you have low HGH levels. If you do not have low HGH levels and/or your growth plates are closed, it can cause serious complications and growth will not occur.

I will see a public endocrinologist soon to see if I can get some extra HGH. It would be a nice top-up to what I am getting privately (and it should hopefully boost my height). The private endocrinologist deals more with HGH for aesthetic reasons rather than diagnosing problems.

Yeah, by average I mean my country's average.

It is better to wait for the weight-bearing STRYDE nail. It appears to be the best one so might as well go for it.

I am thinking of going to Paley due to his experience. What about you?

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IgnoredByMods

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Posts: 391

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 12:03 pm

#7

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 29, 2021, 11:16:49 PMI just realized I asked the doctor when the post name is quadrilateral w/Paley lol

No worries at all haha, it happens.

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M

Masteryourlife

Member

Posts: 407

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 12:56 pm

#8

Quote from: LongTorso on December 30, 2021, 12:02:47 PMHGH is essentially a natural hormone in your body which stimulates growth. If your growth plates are open you can take synthetic HGH to increase your height. This can be done if you have low HGH levels. If you do not have low HGH levels and/or your growth plates are closed, it can cause serious complications and growth will not occur.

I will see a public endocrinologist soon to see if I can get some extra HGH. It would be a nice top-up to what I am getting privately (and it should hopefully boost my height). The private endocrinologist deals more with HGH for aesthetic reasons rather than diagnosing problems.

Yeah, by average I mean my country's average.

It is better to wait for the weight-bearing STRYDE nail. It appears to be the best one so might as well go for it.

I am thinking of going to Paley due to his experience. What about you?

About Paley I said it several times in this forum , he is a great doctor but he do not perform on you .
Robbins does the job and follow ups are not made by Paley as well so 90k + living expenses in an expensive place for a surgery done by a less experienced surgeon then a lot out there...seems little stretched to me .
It is my opinion tho so no big deal but that's why I asked before (realizing later u mentioned Paley), because I'm from Europe too and wanted to know if you had any in mind here .

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SuchLL

Member

Posts: 310

Joined: Sep 2020

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 5:58 pm

#9

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 30, 2021, 12:56:19 PMAbout Paley I said it several times in this forum , he is a great doctor but he do not perform on you .
Robbins does the job and follow ups are not made by Paley as well so 90k + living expenses in an expensive place for a surgery done by a less experienced surgeon then a lot out there...seems little stretched to me .
It is my opinion tho so no big deal but that's why I asked before (realizing later u mentioned Paley), because I'm from Europe too and wanted to know if you had any in mind here .

Paley does one leg and Robbins does the other. That’s why the surgery only takes about 1 hour for femurs and 1.5 hours for tibias. None of us could tell which doctor did which leg unless we asked. Robbins is very experienced with internal nails too. So 100k is “Paley + Robbins” price. Followups will be with Paley if you have serious problems. In my opinion that’s all that matters since small problems can be resolved by any doctors, but we want a very experienced doctor to be there to resolve complex issues. However I feel they should let patients know about this during consultation. I least I didn’t know Paley would only operate one leg until the surgery day, which made me feel bad for a moment.

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Masteryourlife

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Posts: 316

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 30, 2021, 6:17 pm

#10

Quote from: SuchLL on December 30, 2021, 05:58:05 PMPaley does one leg and Robbins does the other. That’s why the surgery only takes about 1 hour for femurs and 1.5 hours for tibias. None of us could tell which doctor did which leg unless we asked. Robbins is very experienced with internal nails too. So 100k is “Paley + Robbins” price. Followups will be with Paley if you have serious problems. In my opinion that’s all that matters since small problems can be resolved by any doctors, but we want a very experienced doctor to be there to solve complex issues. However I feel they should let patients know about this during consultation. I least I didn’t know Paley would only operate one leg until the surgery day, which made me feel bad for a moment.

You certainly have a point but Robbins in an interview said that he did not even used ex fixators ... my point is that we are (not all but a good amount) so selective with doctors and want them 20+ years of experience , good amount of CLL etc. But we are willing to do it with Robbins at Paley institute for 90k + .
I don't want to act stupid here but I feel that this surgery it's difficult for who it's not specialized in it therefore knows just a small % of what can or cannot happen .
For a limb lengthening surgeon specialized in deformity corrections this is a routine surgery and almost every one had learned from Paley anyway .
So ok they do one leg etc. But what makes it more safe at the Paley institute with 90k+ against a 69k of dr.Lee ?
With some extra K u also get accommodation at the institute of dr.Lee which is great and they have a state of the art of rehab center .
Given the fact he did not answear to me in so long Its clear Lee it's not my pick anymore so I am not promoting him but just to compare why (according to me) Paley it's a great place to go but for that money you have better options .
Most of us here stay local for the lenghetning and do it solo or with just a person so Korea or USA might have a difference for and English speaker but not that much to justify 20 k of difference .
Another thing its if u live in Florida then whatever but overall I believe that currently Lee it's the best one giving the experience , his career (Yonsei university and Severance Hospital which is one amongst the best ortho hospital worldwide ) and his prices .
He is also in his prime (50-55 yo) and Paley is close to 70 and therefore retirement.
All in all that is why I believe that especially from Europe , you could save 20k and do it with Lee as safe as with Paley .
Robbins for example did not suggest to TakingAction to slow down the lenghetning with the shin numbness when Paley did and suggests it in its literature .
It's not a big deal but he might have to deal with numbness in the future for such a stupid thing .
All in all you will turn out fine but those small things are what makes me hesitant here .

Again no promotion here , I am having a consultation with dr.Peter Thaller in january so I earn nothing from promoting Lee but if he was more responsive he would have been my choiche .

Edit Post

Quote from: SuchLL on December 30, 2021, 05:58:05 PMPaley does one leg and Robbins does the other. That’s why the surgery only takes about 1 hour for femurs and 1.5 hours for tibias. None of us could tell which doctor did which leg unless we asked. Robbins is very experienced with internal nails too. So 100k is “Paley + Robbins” price. Followups will be with Paley if you have serious problems. In my opinion that’s all that matters since small problems can be resolved by any doctors, but we want a very experienced doctor to be there to solve complex issues. However I feel they should let patients know about this during consultation. I least I didn’t know Paley would only operate one leg until the surgery day, which made me feel bad for a moment.

You certainly have a point but Robbins in an interview said that he did not even used ex fixators ... my point is that we are (not all but a good amount) so selective with doctors and want them 20+ years of experience , good amount of CLL etc. But we are willing to do it with Robbins at Paley institute for 90k + .
I don't want to act stupid here but I feel that this surgery it's difficult for who it's not specialized in it therefore knows just a small % of what can or cannot happen .
For a limb lengthening surgeon specialized in deformity corrections this is a routine surgery and almost every one had learned from Paley anyway .
So ok they do one leg etc. But what makes it more safe at the Paley institute with 90k+ against a 69k of dr.Lee ?
With some extra K u also get accommodation at the institute of dr.Lee which is great and they have a state of the art of rehab center .
Given the fact he did not answear to me in so long Its clear Lee it's not my pick anymore so I am not promoting him but just to compare why (according to me) Paley it's a great place to go but for that money you have better options .
Most of us here stay local for the lenghetning and do it solo or with just a person so Korea or USA might have a difference for and English speaker but not that much to justify 20 k of difference .
Another thing its if u live in Florida then whatever but overall I believe that currently Lee it's the best one giving the experience , his career (Yonsei university and Severance Hospital which is one amongst the best ortho hospital worldwide ) and his prices .
He is also in his prime (50-55 yo) and Paley is close to 70 and therefore retirement.
All in all that is why I believe that especially from Europe , you could save 20k and do it with Lee as safe as with Paley .
Robbins for example did not suggest to TakingAction to slow down the lenghetning with the shin numbness when Paley did and suggests it in its literature .
It's not a big deal but he might have to deal with numbness in the future for such a stupid thing .
All in all you will turn out fine but those small things are what makes me hesitant here .

Again no promotion here , I am having a consultation with dr.Peter Thaller in january so I earn nothing from promoting Lee but if he was more responsive he would have been my choiche .

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