Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 10, 2015, 10:25:44 AMThat is true. Dr Talwar is the head of the orthopedics department at Rockland so it's considered his team, but the main surgeon doing the Ilizarov surgery at Rockland is Dr Rajesh Verma. http://www.hbgmedicalassistance.com/doc-details.php?did=275
He's the one who I did my first consultation with. It's true that they prefer monorails, and they prefer externals, but they will use classic frames if you go with LON. They're now offering Precice for femurs too.
Dr. Verma seems to be a spine surgery specialist. Limb lengthening is not even his focus area. He just has interest in limb lengthening. Its his hobby same like stamp collection or coin collection for regular kids. Dr. Talwar has good credentials, but if he is not doing the surgery personally, then we should not even talk about his credentials. We should be talking about Dr. Verma's credentials. And he has none in limb lengthening.
But personally, I rate his team way better than Dr. Sarin or Dr. Sringari, who both are not specialists in limb lengthening too. If not for anything else, Dr. Talwar will supervise the surgery at least to maintain his reputation. And he is a reputed doctor in Delhi.
There was one teenage girl who came to meet me with her parents. In fact Dr. Dhawan has sent her to me, to get a hint of what she will go through during lengthening. She was really short, around 4'5", and had height neurosis, and was ruining her social life by isolating herself from her friends and cousins due to height issues. I felt she really needed LL. But she was freaked out looking at my frames, and I couldn't even explain the look on her parent's face. They were actually imagining their daughter in those frames and were very worried. I personally did not like to put such a young girl through such a gruesome process. So, I showed them some monorail pics on google, and asked them to have a second opinion by consulting Dr. Talwar. Though I do not prefer monorails, they are less cumbersome, and might be better for her. They called me later and felt Dr. Talwar and his team is more professional than Dr.Dhawan. But the only concern I had was, he guaranteed them 3 inches gain atleast. Dr Dhawan assured them more than 2 inches depending on her muscle capacity. After looking at that girl, I am worried if she can handle that. She is very young, may be 16, she tried HGH too, but her growth plates fused recently, and her legs are really short. Her tibia looked not more than a feet long. I am not sure if her muscles will stretch that long. So, I advised them to take it slow, first make her do a lot of stretching for one year, and then go for surgery. They were planning to appoint a personal physio therapist for her stretching (Yea.. They seem to be rich). Never heard from them again, but I hope she will be fine..
Phoenix.. Rising !! External Tibias with TSF Frames @ Dr. Dhawan, New Delhi
How are you doing these days, Phoenix?
Hi y'all,
Just to further my comments on doctor Dhawan. He also stated that he does not recommend LON or LATN as let me quote here 'I do not recommend lengthening over nail as nail insertion effects the bone healing'.
He suggested that inserting a nail would inhibit the healing of the bone. Which from what I have read from other Dr's (such as Dr Paley) is and not true and they even say it was bad science. This is where I lost all faith in him. He probably was trying to hood wink me into the costly equipment and overpaying for less. As he walked in through the chaos with his Prada bag, I think probably that's true.
You do describe the situation well Phoenix. I understand you are of Indian (decent) and you are used to 'conditions' but even for Indian standards the situation is pretty bleak. You say the modern equipment is in another building. Well I was shown the single rooms (he recommended the shared rooms for the £11,000 price) and they were in the middle of the chaos. No one could possibly recover well in that environment. It's an absolute mad house.
Maybe if you had a super human 'Indian' immune system you might escape but If you are not used to it you have no chance. And pray to god a really bad complication came up, I wouldn't trust them to tie my shoe lace.
'Renovations' is too generous. This is regular men with circular saws sitting cross legged on the floor, sparks flying everywhere as women, children and extremely ill patients are inches away. I kid you not. Doors hanging off, smells from the toilets, flys, you name it. The hospital is not up to scratch. No sugar coating it. Sorry. The chances of something going wrong is too high.
There are decent hospitals in India. This is not one. Politicians would often go to the 'peoples hospital' to show that they have the common touch. But I'm pretty sure they would be away somewhere else as soon everyone stopped looking. This hospital is used by millions and is over capacity about 20 times over and so would surely be a vote winner.
I noticed this though. I believe the Dr Dhawan 'might' do the surgery well. But he has already cut out any sort of care. This is how these LL guest house places start. He's shooting himself in the foot. Just pay slight more for a better hospital around the corner. It would only be few extra laks!! But this Delhi mentally seems to blind everyone. It's totally stupid. We are westerners yes, but we're not stupid. We want the going rate in India for the service. We have google. We know how much everything costs. We know the standards we can get. We won't go okay, take my money, break my legs and I'll cross my fingers. If someone is going to try and blag you, there is ZERO chance I can trust him to fix complications or administer the correct level of care when I can only drag myself a few feet. And we will inform other people which will stop people coming. It is so silly.
The Indian doctor works the same as the Indian Hotel manager, he'll try and get a kick back for anything. Dr Dhawan wanted one for a Sim card! Which is maybe the way it's done in India but it seems so strange to me.
If he paid the rate of a decent hospital, provided the latest information and a detailed price. People would literally flock to him.
This is why India is a totally NO from the options and doctors available. Go to Russia people. They are at least sanitary. The hospitals are correctly maintained and have enforced standards. You won't be stepping over people or praying you don't get Osteomyelitis. (Still not perfect though)
Delhi is a desperate place at the minute. Crime Levels are really bad and outlook of most people there is totally warped. Women are treated so badly. It's a scary place to be if you are a woman or a westerner. Even to walk the streets. Don't go there is my opinion. Mumbai seemed a lot better but the standards are same and there are no real options you should take.
You are really spot on with what you say again though Phoenix. I think you know how it runs in India but I don't its a place for westerners at the minute... if I can say it... white people in particular can go. You'll have to fight to get anyone to do anything and if you start paying over the odds then your troubles really will start. Not to be too down on it, it is definitely on the up though........ the plane I left on was absolutely fantastic!! 
Hey phoenix,
Can you private message me as well. I am basically wanting to follow your exact path with the same Dr. and same living arrangements, as well as same maid haha. I have a few questions for you though:
Did you obtain Medical Visa before entering India or after entering India. Right now I am having a hard time finding hospitals to write me a letter of intent which is needed before you can get your medical Visa.
Like you I also want to travel to india and scope things out before I actually get the treatment work done, so I am wondering if you got your Medical Visa after you consulted with the Doctors in person or if all you were able to get the letter from your home country before hand.
Any information will help. Thank you.
I am doing my lengthening with doctor Dhawan, and I staying with Phoenix, and everything is going fine. I had the surgery done, and I am walking. I start growing in 4 days, and phoenix has been like a brother to me. Its unfortunaite that it didn't work out while you were here.
I am from US, in particular Palo Alto, CA, so Stanford Medical hospital, which is a research hospital was my hospital. So I for the last 5 years I was using probably one of the top 5 hospitals in the entire world. The hospital has like 40 complexes spread all across Stanford Universities campus. It truly a sight to be hold.
In my personal experience, I believe the India philosophy towards medical is better, and has less fraud when looking at the system as a whole. I believe I will heal better with the medications and physio here than I would in the US because doctors here are prescribing vitamins, supplements, and drugs for their limb lengthening patients. In the US, if a doctor prescribes anything other than a drug they risk their job, blow back from pharmacutical companies, and risk being sued. I am going to hire a physical therapist to come to my house everyday, so I won't even have to leave my Airbnb. Oh yeah and its 10.00 usd to have a physical therapist come to my house. I plan on doing the exact same physical therapy recommended on paley's website. A physical therapy session at Dr. Paley's place is $220.00 per session. I can also higher help here, and pay him 2 dollars per hour, vs in the states on Paley's website hired help is 18.00 dollars an hour..
Don't get confused now, and don't be naive. American doctors are fully capable of "hood winking," as you called it their patients. More than a lot of people would imagine, because they have a lot of external pressures, from pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and the private equity firm that backed their initial start up costs, assuming the doctor opened his practice.
Americans and in this case, american doctors are just better at deceit, and can look you in the eye, smile and nod when they lie, so I do agree that their is a level of mistrust I experience here with people. People are mostly the same. Do Americans lie less, thats the reason they seem so genuine, or are they just better liars.
As far as being an absolute mad house you are right. But you are wrong when you say that you can't recover in the hospital your wrong. I did, and I was only in the hospital for 4 days. When I was their I always wore my protective air mask into the hospital. As well as when I went any where. I also brought with me to the hospital my air purifier, so I was breathing the freshest air in Delhi haha Yeah in US hospitals you don't have to take such precautions, but who cares they only cost me 50.00 usd for the precautions, and I was fine.
I do agree with some of the last part of the of what you said about Delhi, but dude walk around Detroit, baltimore, Compton, or South side bronx at night. You think the crime in Delhi is that bad its really not. Here people don't carry guns. In the inner cities, you have crack heads carrying pistols. Organized crime at the highest levels.
I do agree, he could provide detailed information before hand. They do after the fact though, and I was able to get through the whole process with only paying 10,500 usd. With LON.
One last thing. Women are treated badly, and its not safe for them, but most all know how progressive things are in the States, and like US guys for that. The first week I was here, I had sex with two indians, and one more before I lengthened, So I think India is a perfect place for White American guys:)
Looking forward to do my future surgery with this doctor. How long before you can walk without support? Thinking of doing 7.5 cm or 3 inches
Sorry guys, I did not update my experience on this thread from over 6 months now. But I kept replying to my private messages as much as I can, and still chatting with few LLers from this forum.
My consolidation is complete now, and the frames are removed on March 17th, 2016. I am very glad that at last the frames are off. Doctor took measurements and a cast of my legs yesterday. They will give me a custom-made brace tomorrow to put on my legs when ever I walk for some support. I will start walking tomorrow with the braces, he asked me not to walk without braces for next 6 weeks or till I am completely confident.
I currently have a temporary cast on my legs, but I saw my legs without frames yesterday when they were taking measurements for new braces. My legs looked ridiculously straight, like someone has drawn a straight line with a ruler. Also due to muscle loss, my legs look very thin. Scars are very small, not a big deal. I might consider scar removal in future for a couple of scars, but I wouldn’t worry much either way.
My task for the next couple of months is to do a lot of physiotherapy, build muscle on legs, and a lot of walking. I am planning to go back to my regular life only when my walking style is normal. So, I might hang around a couple more months here.
Overall, very happy with the outcome of the surgery till now. I will try to post some videos of my workout with frames in a few days.
Update on my Consolidation period:
My consolidation period went very smooth, No big issues, not even small infections. I had mostly a normal life ( minus walking obviously) . I live in one of the bed room in a fully furnished 4 BHK apartment with shared kitchen and living room. All the other rooms are occupied by mostly travelers from around the world. So, I got to meet many new people over the time from different countries. Lot of cultural exchange. I was a bit hesitant to show my legs with frames to every new person, so mostly covered my legs with towel when ever i went out into kitchen or living room, but showed them only to a few people who became friends.
All these days I was doing some physio therapy and walking now and then, but rest of the time, I was just watching TV Shows, learning some new stuff, cooking, gym etc. I tried working remotely for a month in august, but I decided to just chill out and spend my time in peace, and concentrate on healing, so I quit.
The whole area is wheelchair accessible, so I can move around freely, cook my food and be active without depending on others. I hate to be dependent, so I took special precautions to be able to manage all my stuff myself though we have helpers a phone call away to assist you in anything. I order all my grocery and other stuff online which is home delivered. We have a gym downstairs, so I used to go there some times and mostly do upper body exercises. In the last couple months I started walking with out zimmer frames or any support, started climbing steps and go upstairs, even did cross walk and treadmill few times in the gym. It is easier than I thought. My legs have good strength to walk right now, and I learnt to walk without support long back, so no worries going forward. I just need to work on the flexibility of my ankle, which has a tendency to go stiff even if I doesn’t walk for a couple of days. I am sure it will be ok once I start walking regularly.
OregonMade from this forum had his surgery recently and living in my apartment. Also sudheer from the forum is here for consultation and possibly surgery in few days. Also, I meet all Dr. Dhawan's would-be patients and help them with any questions about LL, so I met many LLers from the forum and off the forum and happy to do my part contributing to the community.
Good to know you're doing well. What are your thoughts of Dr Dhawan overall? Anything that could use improvement?
I got my new leg braces today. Doctor asked me to first start with exercises, then standing, and gradually progress towards walking slowly.
I did some 45 mins of cycling in the gym with the braces without putting lot of weight directly. No pain, it was good, no issues with flexibility. I have enough strength in the leg, but not going to walk anytime sooner.
I am a bit worried when i remove the brace. I am taking lot of care not to put any weight on them, still very afraid of leg bending or fracture. Do not want any issues at this stage, I will not even let a physio therapist touch my legs for next couple of weeks.
I just removed the braces, and about to go to sleep now, and it feels good to be able to sleep with my normal legs, without frames or braces or plasters.
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