Quote from: Wannabetaller - Bubuzenggao(Victims of the Wannabetaller) on August 21, 2023, 03:53:20 PMWBT accused me of providing some information. Should I tell you when I eat and when I sleep? Then you can provide complete information. You will definitely refuse to provide it under various excuses.
We are engrossing the people in useless discussions in this forum and occupying their agenda in vain. I hope the forum moderator/official puts an end to this.
Wannabetaller destroyed my life
It was me - I can confirm since I posted that they installed a fly zapper in the kitchen and are in the process of installing ramps now. They’ve also been more diligent keeping the physio room clean and sanitary. I do have an issue with one of the nurses, but not going to comment since its second hand and I’m no longer at the facility. I stand by the doctor being good and WBT making changes in the right direction. I was / am in the process of being refunded money for leaving early. This isn’t something I asked for or remembered, so was kind and honest of them to do.
For anyone hurt or suffering from this procedure, my heart goes out to you, and I hope you heal and return to normal life. I was lucky, and most patients in my group had very few issues. I think if WBT takes patient feedback seriously with Dr. Oc they have potential to be one of the best options in Turkey.
I agree
While I understand that the number of cases I'm referring to might be relatively small, my experience involved being with around 15 patients, and none of us faced any major health issues. The few minor concerns that did arise appeared to be handled quite well.On a personal note, my only difficulties were related to the hotel, but it's encouraging to see that they are gradually resolving these matters, including better food quality, installation of ramps, and overall customer service. There is still some problems but overall I would choose this company again.
In my honest opinion, both the posts by Bubuzenggao and the official ones are overly verbose and hard to comprehend.
I recognize that Bubuzenggao has serious frustrations about what happened at WBT, but I believe it would be better to summarize the facts simply and chronologically.
Posting a large number of screenshots makes it hard to read and doesn't seem effective for the forum participants.
Additionally, I have one concern about WBT. It appears that the manager of WBT is not a medical doctor, and there is a frequent turnover of surgeons at WBT. I wonder if, when a patient desires treatment for complications after a doctor has been replaced, the new doctor at WBT is contracted to provide the treatment?
Also, concerning the tibial misalignment by WBT's former Özgur Karakoyun, it seems to be missing from Bubuzenggao's signature, so I have included it here.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64059.0
I believe so. A few patients treated by the old doctors have either been treated by or given medical advice from Dr. Yunus Oc. The problem with WBT is that from 2019-2020 or maybe 2021 they had doctors that weren’t stellar and had issues. Those complaints may well be valid, but it isn’t representative of the doctor now, and the company is improving based off feedback. If the problem was severe like chronic osteomyelitis from surgery a year or two ago, I can imagine it being really difficult to treat.
Quote from: Ahri on August 22, 2023, 05:15:48 PMI believe so. A few patients treated by the old doctors have either been treated by or given medical advice from Dr. Yunus Oc. The problem with WBT is that from 2019-2020 or maybe 2021 they had doctors that weren’t stellar and had issues. Those complaints may well be valid, but it isn’t representative of the doctor now, and the company is improving based off feedback. If the problem was severe like chronic osteomyelitis from surgery a year or two ago, I can imagine it being really difficult to treat.
Quote from: Wannabetaller - Bubuzenggao(Victims of the Wannabetaller) on August 10, 2023, 08:47:50 AMI was operated by Yuksel, when my leg was swollen I contacted wannabetaller and they told me they are not working with Yuksel anymore. And gave me contact information to contact Yuksel myself, I contacted Yuksel and he said he was back after 5 days vacation.
WBT provided Bubuzenggao with the contact information for Yuksel after the doctor's change, but it's unclear whether they did so because he preferred treatment from Yuksel rather than Yunus.
Additionally, it's unknown how the treatment expenses were handled at that time.
Regarding this matter, I would like to wait for an explanation from the parties involved.
As an aside, Bubuzenggao especially wanted debridement early, but I suspect that the infection had already spread widely by the time the pus burst.
Therefore, debridement alone would not have been enough for a complete cure, and the removal of the nail would have been necessary.
Quote from: Ahri on August 22, 2023, 06:10:39 AMIt was me - I can confirm since I posted that they installed a fly zapper in the kitchen and are in the process of installing ramps now. They’ve also been more diligent keeping the physio room clean and sanitary. I do have an issue with one of the nurses, but not going to comment since its second hand and I’m no longer at the facility. I stand by the doctor being good and WBT making changes in the right direction. I was / am in the process of being refunded money for leaving early. This isn’t something I asked for or remembered, so was kind and honest of them to do.
For anyone hurt or suffering from this procedure, my heart goes out to you, and I hope you heal and return to normal life. I was lucky, and most patients in my group had very few issues. I think if WBT takes patient feedback seriously with Dr. Oc they have potential to be one of the best options in Turkey.
Here, after one of our patients, I was convinced of the concreteness of the complaint when I read your comments about breakfast, and I reported the problem to the hotel management the very next day. Also I had the chance to share the visual confirmation from one of our patients the other day, and I think they had already taken the initiative to solve the problems. And yes I was informed that the ramp for the pool has been completed since the beginning of this week.
We truly value feedback from patients. Sometimes we take immediate action to solve the problems we observe in the field without even waiting for their feedback. The work we do is multi-unit work(transfer, hospital, accomodation, nurse, therapy, office management etc.), which presents us with several challenges when dealing with many details in many units. Here, the feedback of our patients enables us to realize some problems earlier. For example, I would not have known about this problem if the patients had not mentioned the problem at breakfast here. Since I did not know, I would not be able to take action to solve it. Or, if the patients had not mentioned some of the problems they encountered in ambulance transfer - fast and unstable driving etc. - we would not have observed a problem with this service and this would have caused the problem to continue. However, thanks to the feedback given by a few of our patients, we became aware of this problem and changed the ambulance company.
In summary, we closely monitor the system and try to detect and involve the problems as soon as possible. However, despite all our efforts, problems beyond our control mechanism may arise. The more patients cooperate with us, the faster we can resolve these issues.
Thanks for your contribution and comments.
Quote from: Shadowhawk on August 22, 2023, 09:08:59 AMI agree
While I understand that the number of cases I'm referring to might be relatively small, my experience involved being with around 15 patients, and none of us faced any major health issues. The few minor concerns that did arise appeared to be handled quite well.On a personal note, my only difficulties were related to the hotel, but it's encouraging to see that they are gradually resolving these matters, including better food quality, installation of ramps, and overall customer service. There is still some problems but overall I would choose this company again.
We are aware of the problems and we have put them all on our agenda since the day was told. We have solved some of them and some still take time. We did not know that we would face all the challenges of a new hotel. Our aim was to provide good service to our patients in a hotel that has just been opened and therefore in quite good condition. However, due to some reasons, the hotel management could not fulfill its commitments to us. Undoubtedly, they had their own reasons. However, this did not change the fact that our patients had to struggle with some problems. Our only consolation is that you will complete your process in a healthy way.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
Quote from: Maison on August 22, 2023, 02:48:53 PMIn my honest opinion, both the posts by Bubuzenggao and the official ones are overly verbose and hard to comprehend.
I recognize that Bubuzenggao has serious frustrations about what happened at WBT, but I believe it would be better to summarize the facts simply and chronologically.
Posting a large number of screenshots makes it hard to read and doesn't seem effective for the forum participants.
Additionally, I have one concern about WBT. It appears that the manager of WBT is not a medical doctor, and there is a frequent turnover of surgeons at WBT. I wonder if, when a patient desires treatment for complications after a doctor has been replaced, the new doctor at WBT is contracted to provide the treatment?
Also, concerning the tibial misalignment by WBT's former Özgur Karakoyun, it seems to be missing from Bubuzenggao's signature, so I have included it here.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64059.0
Frankly, I was not in favor of having a discussion with this patient (that you call bubuzenggaao).If this patient had not manipulated so much and turned the truth upside down in some points, I would not even have answered her. After all, she is a patient who had to go through a difficult process. In fact, my focus was on some of the claims of our few patients who were staying with us at that moment, which were beyond their purpose and far from constructive criticism, and I came to the forum to defend that these claims are unfounded from our own point of view. I have tried to answer all the allegations made without sacrificing honesty and transparency. I also carefully noted each of the constructive criticisms. An unbiased eye will already notice all.
Yes, the founder of WBT is not a medical doctor, he is a lengthening patient. This has its own advantages and disadvantages. In my observation and opinion, the biggest advantage of not being the founder as a medical doctor in such companies is that the doctor has the opportunity to focus only on the surgery he will perform. Lengthening surgery is not just about surgery and is part of a whole that requires the coordinated work of many units, from transfer to accommodation, from accounting to physiotherapy, from nursing to agency activities, from purchasing to other office works. It is clear that such a structure requires great organization and harmony. In our system, the doctor does not deal with any of these, does not spend time on any of them, and focuses only on his surgery and monitors his patients at regular intervals. Undoubtedly, a doctor can also establish this system, but no matter what, a doctor will have to deal with the functioning of the system he has established in one way or another. This will make the doctor more prone to problems than in a system where he doesn't have to deal with any of them.
We consider it a great advantage that the founder of our company is a height increase patient. We believe that the difficulties and experiences he had during the surgery process have improved our system's ability to empathize with patients. In fact, my presence in this company is the reflection of this empathy on the field in order to ensure patient satisfaction by constantly monitoring the services offered by the company. Our company is perhaps the only company operating in this field with quality control management. The company's choice of doctor gives flexibility to the company in achieving the targeted service quality, which gives us room to adapt our quality policy to the field. Our quality policy imposes the same responsibility on all our units and staff, including the doctor, and no one is exempt from this responsibility. For example, the reason why we parted ways with a doctor we work with will explain what I mean. This doctor stated that the muscles of one of our patients did not have sufficient flexibility during the routine check-up at the hospital, and that he did not receive adequate physical therapy services. However, he is obliged to visit his patients in certain periods (5-10 days) at the hotel and check their condition. A doctor can determine if a physiotherapy service is of the desired quality.We can only measure whether patients receive physical therapy according to the number and duration determined in the program. The doctor should have identified the quality problems in this physical therapy and warn us. After all, we could take the necessary actions according to his warning. In this example, the doctor noticed after almost a month that the patient was not getting good physical therapy, which was unacceptable.
As for your question, is it provided with a new doctor for the treatment of complications when the doctor changes? Doctors in Turkey are always cautious about dealing with another doctor's patient, but this is not a fixed behavior or rule. Therefore, even if the patient's own doctor has terminated the contract with the company, the patient can receive service from the company's new doctor. However, it should not be forgotten that his own doctor has a legal responsibility towards him regarding the problem he has experienced. Because in the agreement signed between the company and the doctor, "The doctor is responsible for all the results of the surgery and the doctor takes the action for the treatment of possible complications." phrase is included. In the meantime, in case we have started to offer a service that covers possible complications under insurance for about a year. Currently this insurance is optional, but we will discuss making it mandatory on a case-by-case basis.
I was not in this company yet when the company was working with Ozgur Karakoyun. Therefore, I do not have detailed information about the situations in this plugin. It is clear that a complete answer will require a detailed archive search. However, while making investigations on some case studies during the restructuring of the company, I learned that there were some problems in two of Karakoyun's patients, who had correspondence in the link you sent, and that one patient had a tibial alignment problem and other patient had different problem due to the Stryde nail, and the case was taken to the court.As far as I understand, the panel of experts appointed by the court has expressed an opinion that the problem, one of the patients has, is not caused by the doctor's procedure, but by the structural problems in the Stryde nail used. As it is known, the Stryde method has been abandoned worldwide after many problems. As for the patient having tibial misalignment, I do not remember if there is an expert report on tibial misalignment. However, in the first trials, the court did not find it appropriate to face any accusation WBT as the interlocutor in the case, as there was no point that required our company to be a party in the lawsuit. In other words, the lawsuit is between doctors and patients and is still ongoing.
Quote from: Maison on August 23, 2023, 03:19:25 AMWBT provided Bubuzenggao with the contact information for Yuksel after the doctor's change, but it's unclear whether they did so because he preferred treatment from Yuksel rather than Yunus.
Additionally, it's unknown how the treatment expenses were handled at that time.
Regarding this matter, I would like to wait for an explanation from the parties involved.
As an aside, Bubuzenggao especially wanted debridement early, but I suspect that the infection had already spread widely by the time the pus burst.
Therefore, debridement alone would not have been enough for a complete cure, and the removal of the nail would have been necessary.
Yes, Dr. Yuksel's contact information was given to her. Because it is always the first way to be preferred by the doctor who performs the procedure to follow his own case. But this does not mean that she was not informed that she could contact Dr. Yunus for his treatment. As a matter of fact, some of the diagnoses and treatments were made by Dr. Yunus. As far as I know she was not charged for these treatments, even medicine and transfer costs etc. were covered(If this my information is wrong or missing I will fix it.). In cases where it is not clear that any complication is caused by the negligence of the doctor under normal conditions, the treatment costs of the possible complication are covered by the patient. This is a valid application for many types of services in the medical field. A court order is often required for the cost of complications to be covered by the treating party. However, in most cases, the company did not hesitate to make all the financial sacrifices it could, even though it had no legal obligation. In addition, as I mentioned in my other answer, we have implemented an insurance protocol so that payments are no longer a problem, at least up to a point.
“As an aside, Bubuzenggao specifically requested early debridement, but I suspect the infection was already widely spread by the time the pus bursts.
Therefore, debridement alone would not be sufficient for full recovery and the nail would have to be removed.” you say.
These details require medical qualification and it would be more accurate for a professional to assess the situation. The company was not in a position to decide whether the treatment protocol adopted by Dr. Yuksel or Dr. Yunus for this patient was right or wrong. Therefore, it has always been the company's most reasonable option for an impartial third party (the court/expert) to take up the matter and provide an opinion and encouraged the parties to this option.
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