What do you think is the best starting height for LL to get the most returns?

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At what starting height do you guys feel that men recieve the most bang for their buck?  I'm currently 5'7.5 if i got 8cm on my femurs, which I plan to do once I save up the money and a years worth of living expenses, it would put me at almost 5'11".  I feel like I'm a great height in regards to returns.  If you're really short or already tall, I feel like you'll get diminishing returns.  LL would take me from below average height to above average, which would be very nice.  Thoughts?

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I'm in a similar boat, presently at 5'9. Moving up to 5'11 - 6' feels like it would be the most beneficial, safest and best return on investment. From slightly below average to right at the average, and would give me the most options dating wise.

I also live in a college town, so the height of the ladies is all over the place. More and more are coming in with a height over 5'9 and it's very demoralizing to feel so inadequate next to a bunch of young, 6' women.

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I agree.  It will definetely be very nice to get more time of day and respect from women.  I always get told I'm a good looking guy or cute, but I know my height holds me back a bit and it would be nice to be above average height so I'm not being discrimated against for it anymore. 

I don't blame the fact that majority of women prefer tall guys, a tall guy is considered healthy, masculine, protective, dominant. 

I know people say not to do LL for women but it is definitely a perk to LL especially guys in our height range, it will make a big difference to us respect wise.  It's not just for women but for myself, I do feel short a lot of the time around other people and don't like the feeling.

No matter your reason for doing LL if you think it will make you happier then do it, it's your life to live and not someone else's.

I actually ordered shoe lifts recently just to try them with my boots so I can experience life at 5'11".  I'm sure it will feel like night and day, and only solidify my desire to get LL.

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This is a really interesting post!  3 inches seems to be a huge jump from all heights starting at 4'10

At 4'10 --> 5'1: No longer a "Little Person" and just considered extreme constitutionally short-statured
At 5'1   --> 5'4: You're no longer extremely constitutionally short-statured, and now just on the shortest end of "constitutionally short"
At 5'4   --> 5'7:  You are no longer constitutionally short and are just an inch or two away from "average" in the United States
At 5'7   --> 5'10: You're now, no longer a short average; and our considered tall average or above average
At 5"10  --> 6'1": You go from what is considered tall average or above average; to tall height and are now taller than most humans even in taller countries.


When you take into account that height increasing shoes are available that can fashionably lift you 2-3 inches comfortably, you can reasonably tack on another couple of inches to the above heights to achieve even greater height increase. 

In terms of "returns"; that too is fascinating. Perhaps exiting the "short" ranges and entering into the average or above-average ranges may be the best received by others? I'm not sure.  Personally, I can say that although I do see the benefits of having a starting height that is around 5'5" or greater; That my height gain from 5'1" to 5'4" did incredible things for me in terms of confidence and comfort. I think that the best starting height can be noted as subjective and all with height dysphoria should really consider this surgery. 

But hey...to answer your question... I'm going to say 5'5 to 5'8 would be the most dramatic difference... just because you EXIT short height and ENTER a height that really isn't even thought about anymore as tall or short. Height becomes a non-issue for most at this level.

Keep the good posts coming!

All the Best,

IFS

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Quote from: InFullStryde on January 04, 2020, 09:57:32 PMThis is a really interesting post!  3 inches seems to be a huge jump from all heights starting at 4'10

At 4'10 --> 5'1: No longer a "Little Person" and just considered extreme constitutionally short-statured
At 5'1   --> 5'4: You're no longer extremely constitutionally short-statured, and now just on the shortest end of "constitutionally short"
At 5'4   --> 5'7:  You are no longer constitutionally short and are just an inch or two away from "average" in the United States
At 5'7   --> 5'10: You're now, no longer a short average; and our considered tall average or above average
At 5"10  --> 6'1": You go from what is considered tall average or above average; to tall height and are now taller than most humans even in taller countries.


When you take into account that height increasing shoes are available that can fashionably lift you 2-3 inches comfortably, you can reasonably tack on another couple of inches to the above heights to achieve even greater height increase. 

In terms of "returns"; that too is fascinating. Perhaps exiting the "short" ranges and entering into the average or above-average ranges may be the best received by others? I'm not sure.  Personally, I can say that although I do see the benefits of having a starting height that is around 5'5" or greater; That my height gain from 5'1" to 5'4" did incredible things for me in terms of confidence and comfort. I think that the best starting height can be noted as subjective and all with height dysphoria should really consider this surgery. 

But hey...to answer your question... I'm going to say 5'5 to 5'8 would be the most dramatic difference... just because you EXIT short height and ENTER a height that really isn't even thought about anymore as tall or short. Height becomes a non-issue for most at this level.

Keep the good posts coming!

All the Best,

IFS

Hi IFS
I absolutely agree with you.  Any height after 3 inches gain will make a significant change.  How to perceive the absolute height is totally subjective.  Even a guy with 190cm may be not satisfied with his height, while a guy at 160 cm may not even feel any discomfort about his height.  What is important is being happy and confident.  If cll can give you this, go for it!.
Happy new year, guys!

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Great topic and highly subjective. Agreed - height dysphoria is a very personal thing and what matters the most is how it helps you overcome your personal struggles with height dysphoria. In any case....2 to 3 inches is a massive gain whether you are short or average and if it makes you feel better about yourself that's what matters the most.

However in the context of dating and overly generalized female mating selection behavior..... assuming you do a gain of 3 inches...I would say a starting height ranging from 5'8 to 5'10 provides the best "return on investment" due to the following:

1) Females have a very binary way of viewing height in terms of a man's sxxual market value.  For example, you'll hear many shallow women say on dating apps "please don't message me if you are under 6 ft." (i.e i don't care if you are 5'3 or 5'9 I'm filtering you out from my potential mating pool." 

In real life, you can still pursue these women but regardless if you are short or average you'll have to work harder and bring something else to the table. No matter if you are 5'3 or 5'8, you are still going to have to make up for your lack of tall height in other areas (e.g. social status, personality, lifestyle, wealth, conversation skills, etc.) Meanwhile if you are 6'2 and decent looking you can be an idiot and still regularly have one night stands.

2) If you go from a starting height range of between 5'8 and 5'10 to an ending height of a range of 5'11 to 6'1, you are leap frogging over a huge percentage of men, and go from being a guy where your height is not an asset (average but you'll still have to work harder to make up for it in other areas of your life) to it being an asset (where other areas of your life may be lacking but you can still have a high sxxual market value purely based off your height.)

Having said the above.....this is a broad generalization of women and is far from being an eternal truth, there are many women out there who are mature and rationale enough to judge a man's value based on things that truly matter (compatability, character, etc.) over height! 

3) Lengthening experience difficulty and ending functionality - On a relative basis, the longer your starting femurs are the easier your lengthening experience is going to be and the less impact on your post LL functionality is. 3 inches is a huge change to the femurs of a guy who is 5'0 to 5'3 and not as huge of change to a guy who is 5'9 or 5'10.

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I would say going from being known as 'the short guy' and disrespected because of it, to going to below average but tall enough to not get disparaged constantly for it, is a bigger benefit mentally than going from average height to slightly above average and increasing your dating options. One helps you get treated like an actual human being, the other makes a couple more girls say they'd date you.

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Quote from: KiloKAHN on January 06, 2020, 05:38:34 AMI would say going from being known as 'the short guy' and disrespected because of it, to going to below average but tall enough to not get disparaged constantly for it, is a bigger benefit mentally than going from average height to slightly above average and increasing your dating options. One helps you get treated like an actual human being, the other makes a couple more girls say they'd date you.

Yes, indeed.

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The best starting height is whichever allows one to live a blissful life, with or without LL. LL should all be about helping reach one's individual goals and fix individual issues instead of meeting a generalized optimum target height, which doesn't make much sense for the individual. What are the individual's goals? To be taller than most women? To be in the same height range as most men? To be as tall as his brothers or father? TheAlchemist wants to reach a height that is an "asset" because it reaches into the above average ranges. A 5'4'' pre-LLer might be dreaming about being 5'8'', simply because he goes from standing out short to normal. Descreteuser went from 181 to 185 because he wanted to be tall, and did LL even though he was a construction worker (I wonder how that worked out for him).

If we argue about measuring "return of investments", I wouldn't say that 5'8-5'10 is the best starting height, since the cons of being standout short are stronger than the pros of becoming tall-ish. A 5'9'' man will on average have a pretty similar life to a 6 footer. A 5'3'' man in comparison? I'm not sure.

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My breakdown was purely in "the context of female mating selection behavior" specifically those shallow women with a very binary way of viewing potential dating prospects as "6ft and above". It's not uncommon to see that explicitly stated on dating profiles or brought up in conversation.

There are countless challenges and obstacles one can face at different heights due to short stature that are all significant. I never said getting access to more women was more meaningful than any other challenge, I only said that purely in the context of dating a starting height of XX provided the best ROI.

Also want to add that I personally didn't do LL to reach a height where it becomes an asset in dating. I did it because I struggled with height neurosis that manifested itself in my own mind, I was very much content with my life in the career and dating department before LL.