What's the maximum safe lengthening for tibias? Is 6-7cm good?

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Quote from: Knik on May 02, 2018, 02:00:10 PM3 cm at best, anything above 3 cm is no way

BS from people that never did LL and have almost no idea how it is.

Personally, till almost 6cm my rom was almost normal. After that and to avoid premature consolidation (which was very possible at my case) I lengthened almost 0.8-1mm everyday up to 7.5 cm and that lead to severe equinus.

I believe that if I lengthened slowly (at 0.5mm max per day) maybe I could reach almost 7cm without major problems.
But thats me.
Someone else could face major equinus after 5-5.5 cm. But all these bs about 3cm and breaking your legs for so minimum lengths is only a joke.
I can guarantee that at least 90% of patients could lengthen 5cm on tibias without major problems and more than 50-60% can reach 6cm without problems too.
I don't advice anyone to go further than that as 1-1.5cm more does not worth the possible complications but doing less than 5cm does not worth doing LL at all.

Only a moron could break his legs for 3cm.

That said, I hope you didnt say that ironically because then I apologize for my aggressive tone, but if you really believe that anything more than 3cm could cause problems then you are a complete idiot.

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Quote from: Racurz on May 02, 2018, 03:00:26 PMLet’s be totally honest no amount of lengthening is ever safe it’s just certain doctors have different opinions of what is safe for example paley who is probably the best option if you want the safest option and he says that 8 cm tibia and 6 cm femurs might have the two confused but these are his requirements if you want to stick to safety personally if I were you I’d do the two segments 5 cm + 5 cm tibia and femurs would bring you to close to 5’10 plus I’d be safer

Everything is relative if you want to go down that route. No surgery is 100% safe.

But doing limb shortening to correct a few millimeters leg discrepancy, and in children? That's as safe as anything involving external fixators can get, as far as I have read. Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.

However, I agree with your mentality. It's much better to be cautious with CLL.

Quotefor example paley who is probably the best option if you want the safest option and he says that 8 cm tibia and 6 cm femurs might have the two confused but these are his requirements

Lengthening the tibias more than the femurs is almost never going to be the optimal option with anything regarding LL. It's essentially never.

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Is it basically the taller you start the more lengthening you can generally do with less problems?

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Quote from: Johnson1111 on May 02, 2018, 04:39:24 PMIs it basically the taller you start the more lengthening you can generally do with less problems?

Initial bone length. That's what papers seem to suggest (again, I'm no doctor).

Some people have most of their height from their torso, and others from their legs.

People with longer leg bones do relatively smaller increases of their initial bone length, percentage-wise, for the same hard number as someone with a shorter bone.

To quote Bruce:

QuoteJust now measured my tibia is around 32cm (if done more or less right). Which means 15% is 4.8cm

Someone with 37cm long tibias could lengthen his tibias 5.5cms and that'd be relatively the same as Bruce's 4.8cm - a 15% increase of the initial bone length.

A 4.8cm increase in 37cm tibias would be a 13% increase of their initial bone length.

But the only real way to accurately measure your bone length is with x-rays. Bruce's number is probably wrong, and I just used it as an example.

And remember the lengthened amount is just one of the variables for risk in CLL. A number of other, different things could go wrong under the hands of the wrong surgeon or sheer bad luck.

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Quote from: Body Builder on May 02, 2018, 04:21:00 PMI hope you didnt say that ironically because then I apologize for my aggressive tone, but if you really believe that anything more than 3cm could cause problems then you are a complete idiot.

Pretty sure Knik was trolling. About half of his posts are sarcastic, facetiousness is hard to detect online. That's why we have handy "/s" to denote sarcasm, but it's unreasonable to expect everyone to use it (especially since they want you to react to it).

That aside, I agree with you that 3 cm is not worth the suffering, unless there are existing problems (varus, valgus, discrepancy, etc.). If correcting leg shape is the main goal, which is the case for many female CLL patients, a little height boost is a bonus.

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I will say 5 cm is 100% safe (with a good doctor), 6 to7 cm -  a bit risky, above 7 - high risk, above 8 - asking for trouble

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Quote from: 7231 on May 02, 2018, 07:16:10 PMI will say 5 cm is 100% safe (with a good doctor), 6 to7 cm -  a bit risky, above 7 - high risk, above 8 - asking for trouble

Outdated, but I feel I need to relink this.

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I think in general if you want a significant lengthening(9+cm) you should split that into both tibia and femur. 5cm for tibia and mabey another 5-7cm on the femurs, which is all within a safe range. If you don't have the time nor money for both than just do 5cm in your tibia or mabey even 6. Only an idiot would do 3cm. It would not only be a complete waste of money but I can imagine the struggle LLers go through with this surgery so it's no easy task, not worth it for 3cm.

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Quote from: Hamiltonzac on May 04, 2018, 02:52:30 AMI think in general if you want a significant lengthening(9+cm) you should split that into both tibia and femur. 5cm for tibia and mabey another 5-7cm on the femurs, which is all within a safe range. If you don't have the time nor money for both than just do 5cm in your tibia or mabey even 6. Only an idiot would do 3cm. It would not only be a complete waste of money but I can imagine the struggle LLers go through with this surgery so it's no easy task, not worth it for 3cm.

You think tibia is safer than femur?

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Quote from: Hamiltonzac on May 04, 2018, 02:52:30 AMI think in general if you want a significant lengthening(9+cm) you should split that into both tibia and femur. 5cm for tibia and mabey another 5-7cm on the femurs, which is all within a safe range. If you don't have the time nor money for both than just do 5cm in your tibia or mabey even 6. Only an idiot would do 3cm. It would not only be a complete waste of money but I can imagine the struggle LLers go through with this surgery so it's no easy task, not worth it for 3cm.

It's good to have case studies of both people who lengthened too much and too little in scientific literature.

The long-term side effects of CLL in adults are still not well reported. You're not just stretching the soft tissues, even the blood vessels get stretched.