2021 Surgery of Femur Greece GNail Giotikas

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 03, 2021, 08:41:41 PMUhm...I honestly don't know but I was asking you all for an opinion .
It's just random according to you or there is a correlation ?
Maybe size and mechanism ..idk
I'm just saying both PE deaths were patients who had Guichet nail. Is there a correlation? I don't know either and hopefully someone can shed some light into this. It might help patients who still want to choose Dr. G but not his G-nail.

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According to most doctors PE, fat embolism and osteomyelitis risks are the same after femur nailing regardless of the type of the nails used or whether they are inserted from the hip or from the knee.

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 03, 2021, 08:38:46 PM...
When asked if prices will drop he said "I don't know."

We don't know either but maybe you can explain lil better or have a surgeon perspective...

Also " any word for perspective patients?"  "No" .
Who ,I mean..WHO IN THE WORLD will pick him after a death case when in an interview he was so calm and giving the vibe of "could not care less" .

Complications can arise , but a death it's a death and saying protocol was "ok" and the patient had signed for it is beyond disrespectfull .
If the dead did not happen the interview was completely fine, but it did and the fact he acted like it didn't concernes me a lot ,not about him as a surgeon only , but as a human being !Period.
Anyone is free to do and pick the surgeon they mostly like tho thisbis just my opinion .

 Calm down mate..We are all just expressing our opinions here.
About future prices: I wouldn't like a doctor speculating about anything when they don't have evidence. We can speculate freely here but doctors ought to be more careful when they speak. I prefer to hear " I don't know" when they don't;  It's not for them to be worried about future prices from now anyway. This is mainly our problem.

About "any words for prospective patients":  He took the time to answer to all questions in detail, patiently and with evidence, I didn't mind that he didn't make a statement in the end, other the "happy holiday season to all".

He was "so calm" because probably the tragic incident was a random or unavoidable event. He did say somewhere ".. the independent scrutiny didn't show any fault and this was a small relief for us" (or something like that, anyway). I don't know if in your country you believe that all complications are doctor's fault but I don't. Bear in mind that doctors are far more familiar than us with complications and deaths and Giotikas has worked in big trauma centres in the UK and even in war zones as a military surgeon so he has probably seen a lot! I am sure that he must have been devastated with what has happened but he has to carry on, doesn't he?

Needless to say I respect you beliefs.

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Quote from: Arcon on December 03, 2021, 10:25:44 PM Calm down mate..We are all just expressing our opinions here.
About future prices: I wouldn't like a doctor speculating about anything when they don't have evidence. We can speculate freely here but doctors ought to be more careful when they speak. I prefer to hear " I don't know" when they don't;  It's not for them to be worried about future prices from now anyway. This is mainly our problem.

About "any words for prospective patients":  He took the time to answer to all questions in detail, patiently and with evidence, I didn't mind that he didn't make a statement in the end, other the "happy holiday season to all".

He was "so calm" because probably the tragic incident was a random or unavoidable event. He did say somewhere ".. the independent scrutiny didn't show any fault and this was a small relief for us" (or something like that, anyway). I don't know if in your country you believe that all complications are doctor's fault but I don't. Bear in mind that doctors are far more familiar than us with complications and deaths and Giotikas has worked in big trauma centres in the UK and even in war zones as a military surgeon so he has probably seen a lot! I am sure that he must have been devastated with what has happened but he has to carry on, doesn't he?

Needless to say I respect you beliefs.
I am here yo express my belief as well and not forcing anyone to do or not do anything but , I don't agree with your statment.
If CLL had such an unpredictable outcome like some doctors try to make us think ,then it would have been illegal in most countries , like the eye surgery thing .
It's not a Russian roulette !
I understand that something bad can happen and ppl died for way less invasive cosmetic surgeries ,but the guys in greece said that the guy complained several times and no one cared .
Also I did say that the interview was fine if he didn't have a death and all he said was that " an independent scrutiny " said that they protocol were acceptable .
For the money ppl spend on this , an acceptable protocol is not enough.
And hided behind the paper signed 2 months prior ..like...we know we sign for it but do you believe he did all he could to save him ?
This is the question I am making ,not that bad stuff can't happen , but that I am not sure he ( and his staff)did all they could to save him .(as some patients also stated by confirming the guy complained and no one cared) .
Those are the words of ppl with no interest in either side so him having "apparent " integrity on an interview doesn't say anything to me .
Again , I would never chose him ;would rather quit on the surgery then choose him,Guichet,betz and co. (Let alone some others that brave the ones who pick them ) .

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I liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.

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Quote from: thankscience on December 04, 2021, 12:33:57 AMI liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.
I hope we can still confirm whether the patient contracted COVID or not. I read he did a rapid test and it came out negative but still. I know this may sound bad but if he had COVID and having the virus was part of the reason why he developed PE, that would put a lot of potential patients at ease.

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Quote from: thankscience on December 04, 2021, 12:33:57 AMI liked Giotikas' responses. Of course limb lengthening is unlikely to get cheaper in the next 5 years. The only way it could become cheaper is if there is a sudden influx of quality doctors providing it.

Regarding Paley's fat embolism case, I believe he said that this had never happened before prior to COVID. Someone also mentioned the patient who died in Athens was unvaccinated. So there may also be some correlation with the pandemic.

A Paley patient with a diary from 2014 got a fatty emboli in his lungs and at the time Dr Paley said he was the second patient in the last 3 years that got it.

I doubt the embolism had anything to do with COVID in either case.

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Quote from: KiloKAHN on December 04, 2021, 01:08:32 AMA Paley patient with a diary from 2014 got a fatty emboli in his lungs and at the time Dr Paley said he was the second patient in the last 3 years that got it.

I doubt the embolism had anything to do with COVID in either case.
Thanks for clarifying. I know Paley mentioned recently (in an interview - possibly with cyborg4life I think?) something along the lines of there being higher reports of emboli or clots in 2020 and the only thing that had changed was the pandemic. Maybe someone else can confirm...

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Hey, guys, so the cause of this incredible tragedy has not been determined yet... I am very heartbroken and shocked. Such a tragedy should not come to such a self disciplined and active person. At the same time, I am afraid that there may not be a specific reason for such a tragedy, such as the hospital or whose fault, but it seems that there is no such reason now, What I fear most is that this tragedy is just because our brother is unlucky, because if so, this tragedy may come to anyone, and it may not be avoided no matter how hard we try. Can someone give us a reassuring explanation？…

Grieve for him again…

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 03, 2021, 10:44:15 PM…If CLL had such an unpredictable outcome like some doctors try to make us think…
 the guy complained several times and no one cared
… " an independent scrutiny " said that they protocol were acceptable . For the money ppl spend on this , an acceptable protocol is not enough….
And hided behind the paper signed 2 months prior,we know we sign for….


Hi, I don’t know which doctors you are referring to, but the doctors I know do not present LL as “ unpredictable”. Giotikas said that dying from PE and fat embolism is a  rare but real possibility. like 1 in 7000-10000 cases. Now if you think for a moment that that there have been 2-3 deaths from PE and another few cases of fat embolism in the last let ‘say 10-15 years, and there are maybe 1000-1500 LL surgeries done par year then the numbers do add up and make sense. This not unpredictable imo.

You don’t know the type of complains the died patient did. Maybe they were completely irrelevant to PE. Most of Giotikas’s patients say that he is always very responsive to provide solutions to patient’s concerns, problems etc. Afterall PE is not something that you have for weeks in your body before it decides to kill you. It happens within hours or a couple of days.

A verdict of an independent scrutiny  would never use words like “very good, excellent, fantastic etc” they use terms like “ satisfactory- non satisfactory/ acceptable non acceptable etc”. You need to interpret these terms literally and binary. If they didn’t find anything I tend to believe that the incident was unavoidable or random or within statistics.

The informed  consent process is very important in the West. It is one thing if you have a complication during a treatment as a doctor and a whole different story if you haven’t informed the patient about this possibility when you were discussing the treatment. Giotikas is a UK trained surgeon so this is inside him now.

I understand that you hate Giotikas but systematically defaming him based on your personal explanations of unproved facts is unethical, or at least wrong. I believe that you would be more relactunt to do it if for example giotikas was working in the same country with you and could sue you for professional defamation.