Does Precice require a wheelchair?

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Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 21, 2021, 11:46:16 PMguys don't listen to this, please. This is ignorant and biased.
First of all, Muscles have nothing to do with height. Height is a different thing. There are males who feel insecure because they have no muscles -> solution = work out. If you feel insecure bc of height -> solution = LL or wearing lifts.
Not everyone likes muscles aesthetically, and I am not addressing the homosxxual community here. I think being bulked up looks terrible but this is just my personal view, I respect people that view it differently and want to bulk up to feel better. It's their choice and they see it through their eyes. However, I am not stating that it looks objectively bad.
LL is for height and being skinny and lean helps giving a "longer" look so I don't even see the fking point here. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see this as a dumb "incel" teenage rant forum where people just want to bE mOrE aTtRaCtIvE fOr WoMeN...

and 150lbs or lower for a short male is healthy and normal. you see it through a bubble of people who work(ed) out.

You are literally a bodybuilder that's why you weight the same number as a fat guy. It's a fact that if you hit the gym you will gain weight quickly through muscles. If you want to talk about the muscle game and all that then rather go to a bodybuilding website or something like that. LL (for me at least) is about height (not size) and height means one-dimensional length of limbs/legs/body, not muscle mass.


Other than that, you guys shouldn't explicitly take BMI as the holy formula since it is kinda outdated bc it doesn't take visceral fat, muscles, stature phenotype (ecto, meso, endo), etc. etc. into account. Usually, people have a weight where they are healthy for themselves and this can vary. A medical checkup should determine if you are at a healthy weight for yourself.

I for example know a lot of people who are 60-70kg that are average height and average body. From my experience that would be the average body stats. About 5'11 or 6 feet tall and maybe 150lbs. That's where you are average height, average weight. Not thin not fat. (Maybe in other countries this is different).
I know one 5'8 dude who is 80kg and he deffo is chubby. Another friend is 6'5 weighing 65kg and he looks great (thin, young, healthy and tall).
Of course, you can now say being chubby looks so much better but this is just a personal view (in medieval times being obese was a beauty trait now it's being anorexic).

Also IMO I'd rather be skinny and average than tall and fat.

Of course not. I think this is reasonable but I doubt "heavier bones" really exist. But you can have different statures etc (not only height but you know... phenotypes and metabolism).


Most people that go through with LL are mature enough to understand the reality of it. It never is a quick fix and most people I see who really do it are happy with everything BUT their height. Which is the ideal scenario.
I haven't done it yet but I as an example do not blame physical traits for anything. I love my body and appearance in general except for my height, obviously, else I wouldn't be here lol.


Don't say that, some may find these aesthetics appealing. I personally agree but I wouldn't say it's a "bad thing" for everyone. However, some argued that having more muscles in your legs make it harder to stretch, if this is the case, you probably should avoid bodybuilding (your legs at least) preLL.

Sorry but 6.5 with 65kg is a joke.
Noone can look even normal being that tall and skinny.

I don't say do bbing. I am just saying that it is stupid to be scrawny and think that your only problem is height or become scrawny to maybe make precise 2 a little more weight bearing which will still be prone to break even if you are only 150lbs.

I wanted to say that being attractive is a sum and some people here look very bad (unfit, skinny, bad style etc) and still think that adding 6cm will make them attractive etc which will not happen, simple as that.

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Yep, makes sense.
I think everybody should take care of themselves before trying CLL.

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Quote from: Body Builder on March 21, 2021, 07:49:02 PMIt is plain stupidity to have never worked out, be skinny or simply without any muscles and do something so massive like LL to become better looking because in the end the result will be a skinny or unfit guy just 6-7cm taller who will still look bad.


If some of you are 60-65kg then before LL you should really try to build some muscles and have a normal weight for a man because maybe you'll feel better with yourself.
Otherwise, do all these at least after LL.
A scrawny guy will still look like   even with 6-7cm more.

I do agree with you in that regard and people definitely should work out pre-LL. Only upper body though, so it will make it easier to get around with crutches, it is not recommended by doctors to work out the legs, besides stretching.

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Quote from: BelowTheMean on March 22, 2021, 01:37:44 AMNice strawman argument. Why is it incel to want to look more attractive to those who you are attracted to? That's a perfectly valid reason to get limb lengthening and for many guys on here (myself included) it's one of the main reasons. You can try and shame us, but we are short (and ex-short) guys who are used to it so your words have no power over us. Even if you can already get a ton of girls, you'll still have access to even more girls and better quality ones if you grow taller.

In fact I've been on this forum and the old one for over seven years and I've read a large number of journals; I can tell you for a fact that there are quite a few guys doing to this be more attractive to the opposite sxx and there's nothing wrong with that. Many of the guys who have gotten the procedure done also work out, because having a better body is also something that's more attractive in general. The majority of attractive girls like built guys. Maybe you don't like conventionally attractive girls so you don't need to have muscles, but most guys want to be attractive in all aspects and not just tall and skinny.

One of the multimillionaire LL vets on here once said (paraphrased) if you have a lot of money the girl will be attracted to the money, but if you spend it on LL you're increasing the likelihood that she'll be attracted to you. I believe the same concept applies to muscles (in that muscles are part of the definition of you) and you don't even need to spend money to build muscles.

Yeah, and I know a lot of heavy short guys in good shape too. I have a friend who is an amateur MMA fighter (accountant by day). He's 5'7" with a 5'11" wingspan and he weights 180 pounds. He looks a little bulky, but I've seen him take down taller guys on many occasions before. The shortest friend I have is about 5'4" and he's an amateur bodybuilder (financial analyst by day) and he weighs almost 170 lbs I'm sure. He can bench press a pair of 125 lb dumbbells 15 times. The guy is an absolute beast and has over 15K instagram followers. He can also do a ton of muscle-ups, so he's not heavy at all given his level of strength.

Your 195cm friend probably couldn't beat either of my short friends in a fight because 65kg at that height is literally just skin and bones. The average 195cm athlete is over 110kg.

Also, who in the world wants to be average anyway? Average guys get below average girls, attractive guys get average girls, top of the line guys get attractive girls. Given your two choices, I (and most smart guys) would rather be tall and fat than skinny and average, because then I could just spend a year turning myself into tall and ripped and then have no more complaints about my body ever again.

Woah I never said that it's incel to want to be more attractive. That's is a valid thing ofc, I am not sugarcoating that. Yes, height is a big attractiveness factor, of course. I am just stating that this is not a "looks maximize" and dating forum per se. If you have problems with your appearance in general, you will find other places. This is solely for those who want to lengthen their bones.
That "better quality" argument is bs btw. No offense but that's a pretty big "incel" statement tbh. Humans don't have any value sorry but that's just the truth. It's not like "oh you own X money so you are able to drive a Lamborghini". "Oh you are 7/10 so you are able to find a mate that is 7/10 AT MOST, probably only 4/10 because your height measures X'ZX.". like wtf bro real life doesn't work like that. Surely attractiveness is important in finding a romantic partner but it is not the only thing. and defining humans by quality is utter garbage. At least saying so and referring to one's appearance. If you say you want to interpret value into people's lives I'd say the only ethnically correct way to do so is by looking at each person's action. Someone does good things so he is a "better person". That's the only valid way, other than that just makes the one judging a degenerate.

Yes, if you are an athlete you will weigh more, that's true. Also probably more wingspan, skull size, hand feet size etc. mean more weight.

Yes, he wouldn't beat anyone xD. but we are not living in the Klingon empire where you have to establish your worth by physical confrontations. Advanced, civilized humans don't need to hit each other like fking monkeys to determine who is more "Alpha". People that feel the need to do so are generally ones you should avoid.

I respect your reason for wanting to do LL btw, I'll never be someone saying it's a wrong mindset to do LL for girls or anything like that but I see that I come from a different end of the spectrum of people than you or others that do LL primarily for attractiveness .


Quote from: Body Builder on March 22, 2021, 09:18:21 AMSorry but 6.5 with 65kg is a joke.
Noone can look even normal being that tall and skinny.

I don't say do bbing. I am just saying that it is stupid to be scrawny and think that your only problem is height or become scrawny to maybe make precise 2 a little more weight bearing which will still be prone to break even if you are only 150lbs.

I wanted to say that being attractive is a sum and some people here look very bad (unfit, skinny, bad style etc) and still think that adding 6cm will make them attractive etc which will not happen, simple as that.

He does bro, for real.

By saying that you are defining it as a problem to be low weight. No, it is not, for me at least. The same goes for height. Being short is no problem per se. There is NOTHING wrong with people that are short (excluding achondroplasia/dwarfism people). To be exact, there are billions of people who are "short", not every single one of them has psychological or sociological issues. So it is an individual mental problem that one can have. And trust me I am the last one to say being obese af or anorexic is healthy and all good. But from a medical standpoint, if you are low weight (in a healthy manner) there is nothing wrong with you just like if you are short (in a healthy manner).

I agree though that going anorexia for precise is not worth it of course.

That might be true I am not denying this, however, they are not explicitly here to become more attractive in general. especially those who have a family already, they just wanna be taller to feel better I suppose.


My point of this whole debate is that not everyone has the same reason to get LL (which is to become more attractive for the opposite sxx). And for the surgery and procedure, you should just be fit and healthy, normal, and if possible young is better (not necessary though).

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Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 22, 2021, 11:21:13 PMWoah I never said that it's incel to want to be more attractive. That's is a valid thing ofc, I am not sugarcoating that. Yes, height is a big attractiveness factor, of course. I am just stating that this is not a "looks maximize" and dating forum per se. If you have problems with your appearance in general, you will find other places. This is solely for those who want to lengthen their bones.
That "better quality" argument is bs btw. No offense but that's a pretty big "incel" statement tbh. Humans don't have any value sorry but that's just the truth. It's not like "oh you own X money so you are able to drive a Lamborghini". "Oh you are 7/10 so you are able to find a mate that is 7/10 AT MOST, probably only 4/10 because your height measures X'ZX.". like wtf bro real life doesn't work like that. Surely attractiveness is important in finding a romantic partner but it is not the only thing. and defining humans by quality is utter garbage. At least saying so and referring to one's appearance. If you say you want to interpret value into people's lives I'd say the only ethnically correct way to do so is by looking at each person's action. Someone does good things so he is a "better person". That's the only valid way, other than that just makes the one judging a degenerate.

Yes, if you are an athlete you will weigh more, that's true. Also probably more wingspan, skull size, hand feet size etc. mean more weight.

Yes, he wouldn't beat anyone xD. but we are not living in the Klingon empire where you have to establish your worth by physical confrontations. Advanced, civilized humans don't need to hit each other like fking monkeys to determine who is more "Alpha". People that feel the need to do so are generally ones you should avoid.

I respect your reason for wanting to do LL btw, I'll never be someone saying it's a wrong mindset to do LL for girls or anything like that but I see that I come from a different end of the spectrum of people than you or others that do LL primarily for attractiveness .

I think you may be too naïve or idealistic. Humans are not as advanced or civilized as you think. Most people don't live, they mere exist and follow their basic biological programming. I never said that it was correct to value humans based on their physical appearance, but I am saying that it's how the world works. Me, you, and everyone else on this forum could agree that it's not how things should be, but that's not going to change reality. A few centuries of philosophy is not going to overwrite millions of years of evolution in the visual cortex of our brains. While we can't change the world, we can change our place in it by lengthening our legs to fit into better, which is why this forum exists. You can say this is an LL forum and only for LL, but I've been here for a long time and people on here have discussed many topics related to LL and attractiveness to the opposite sex is one of the big ones.

Human interactions, like anything else given a large enough population, are driven by the law or large numbers. There are always outliers, but most people end up dating someone at least somewhat similar to themselves in level of physical attractiveness. I think it can be clearly understood from my post that I was referring to patterns of behaviors among groups of people and not setting an absolute set of rules that no one can bypass. You can say that attractiveness is not the only important thing in finding a romantic partner and I can say that an air tank isn't the only important thing when scuba diving. Both statements are technically true, but neither has a purpose. Besides, I never said my goal is to find a romantic partner. Nobody needs LL to do that. I want to find the best romantic partner available to me, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the time and money to invest in LL.

Everyone loves to claim that they're unique or special, but the truth is most people are not. You might feel that each girl you date is different, but once you date enough of them you'll see some clear patterns emerge. If not after 10 or 20, then definitely by 100 or 200. You should be able to fit them into a distribution at that point and compare that to the general population to see how you're doing on quality. Don't get me wrong though, men are just as bland. Working out, getting LL, etc. are all things we do so we can transform ourselves into the image of a conventionally attractive man. Women are just as shallow as men when it comes to appearance (in fact some would argue even more so than men.) Whether or not she's attracted to you is mostly determined before you even open your mouth. I suppose after the first impression you can still change your standing with her, but you're already walking uphill or downhill at that point. I think most people on here understand this instinctively, which is why LL has so much value to men.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 22, 2021, 11:21:13 PMThat might be true I am not denying this, however, they are not explicitly here to become more attractive in general. especially those who have a family already, they just wanna be taller to feel better I suppose.

Just because someone has a family already doesn't make them instantly asexual. You can still want to be more attractive for your spouse. Besides, divorces do happen, and at a pretty high rate in the western world. It's best to be prepared for anything.

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Quote from: BelowTheMean on March 23, 2021, 12:55:03 AMI think you may be too naïve or idealistic. Humans are not as advanced or civilized as you think. Most people don't live, they mere exist and follow their basic biological programming. I never said that it was correct to value humans based on their physical appearance, but I am saying that it's how the world works. Me, you, and everyone else on this forum could agree that it's not how things should be, but that's not going to change reality. A few centuries of philosophy is not going to overwrite millions of years of evolution in the visual cortex of our brains. While we can't change the world, we can change our place in it by lengthening our legs to fit into better, which is why this forum exists. You can say this is an LL forum and only for LL, but I've been here for a long time and people on here have discussed many topics related to LL and attractiveness to the opposite sxx is one of the big ones.

Human interactions, like anything else given a large enough population, are driven by the law or large numbers. There are always outliers, but most people end up dating someone at least somewhat similar to themselves in level of physical attractiveness. I think it can be clearly understood from my post that I was referring to patterns of behaviors among groups of people and not setting an absolute set of rules that no one can bypass. You can say that attractiveness is not the only important thing in finding a romantic partner and I can say that an air tank isn't the only important thing when scuba diving. Both statements are technically true, but neither has a purpose. Besides, I never said my goal is to find a romantic partner. Nobody needs LL to do that. I want to find the best romantic partner available to me, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the time and money to invest in LL.

Everyone loves to claim that they're unique or special, but the truth is most people are not. You might feel that each girl you date is different, but once you date enough of them you'll see some clear patterns emerge. If not after 10 or 20, then definitely by 100 or 200. You should be able to fit them into a distribution at that point and compare that to the general population to see how you're doing on quality. Don't get me wrong though, men are just as bland. Working out, getting LL, etc. are all things we do so we can transform ourselves into the image of a conventionally attractive man. Women are just as shallow as men when it comes to appearance (in fact some would argue even more so than men.) Whether or not she's attracted to you is mostly determined before you even open your mouth. I suppose after the first impression you can still change your standing with her, but you're already walking uphill or downhill at that point. I think most people on here understand this instinctively, which is why LL has so much value to men.

Just because someone has a family already doesn't make them instantly asxxual. You can still want to be more attractive for your spouse. Besides, divorces do happen, and at a pretty high rate in the western world. It's best to be prepared for anything.

Calm down that sounds much like a teenage angst rant.
Humans are individually different. Yes, I agree that the vast majority of humans are pretty damn similar to gorillas in a zoo going through their everyday lives. However, there are those who are further down the rabbit hole of intellectualism. You can choose which people you surround yourself with. Do you really want those shallow idiots who judge you by unchangeable traits?

And don't get started on brain stuff, you know what's the one special brain anatomy thing for humans? The enlarged growth of the parieto-temporal lobe. It actually grows over the insula in humans. you can see this type of evolution in other grand apes but in humans it's the most distinctive. What comes with this? Advanced speech, communication, and sociology (primarily). Thus, one can argue that for us the complexity of communication is far more important in sxxuality too.

See, this sounds like a teen talking about "the meaning of life in a biological way is just fking ". The truth is, well yes, but actually no. Humans are supposed to be K-type reproductive species, which means their meaning of life is actually to RAISE their offspring, because it favors quality over quantity. That's also the best thesis as of now for the reason for homosxxuality (homosxxuals are determined to "help raise relative's offspring").


I think you should invest your money to feel better about yourself, gain more self worth, self esteem, in public situations or when under people. That will absolutely help you find a partner. and if you are below X type of percentile (probably 5'5 and below?), I agree that a really low height makes it HARD to find a partner so I see that this is a motivation of course.


See, I agree with the partner thing though, the first impression of looks is important, but it is indeed subjective!!! never forget that. If you see someone, you will always have them unconsciously "scanned" if they are "your type" or not. This however can vary so much. For example, probably bc of my history of height-related mental illness, I would want a girl who is tall (6ft and above ideally, not that uncommon in my country btw). All of my friends say though that this would be a "red flag" for them. Most men want small or average girl, max the same height as them. Some of my friends even have a kink for "petite" girls. But a taller girlfriend? No way! For most of them at least, but for me it would be good. Even if I'd lengthen to 6'7 I'd prefer girls who are 6'7 and above lol. Maybe it's a fetish thing.
But see, it can vary and not all beauty norms are 100% true. Especially things like tan (which I absolutely dislike, pale is better ) or hairstyle etc,. but ironically, the universally important thing is height, maybe it represents a genome that was important in evolution, who knows.


But maybe you are right and more people are only in for the sxxual aspects of LL, I am not though I do this for myself, not for anyone else, not to find a girlfriend or to be more attractive to girls (I couldn't stand when many girls would try to sxxually approach me anyways ugh. Just want a good one and be happy that's it).


oh and I forgot, about the moral dilemma. Morality is what advances in a progressing civilization. See how much different the world is now in comparison to medieval times. This is because collective morality is progressing in a sentient species. without any morale, a human-like species would destroy itself (which might eventually turn around and happen though). only very different species like a borg-like hive mind could progress and work. However, this just might be a theory of mine. And advanced humans judge no one by their looks anymore, eg. see how you would never hate a friend or family member because of their "lower than average" looks, right?. (we can't unchanged our inner program of mating preference though, you are right about that)

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I don't know dude. My gf is a 5'8 model and I was 5'6 when we started dating. She did use to give me   about it lol. Anyway, I think character is the most important thing, women like people who listen to them, and who are "different". I don't think this crazy journey is worth it just to be more attractive to the other sex. It's not like a few inches is THAT important. I had more success being 5'6 (I was incredibly jacked) than now at 5'8 lol. Just my opinion.

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Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMCalm down that sounds much like a teenage angst rant.
Humans are individually different. Yes, I agree that the vast majority of humans are pretty damn similar to gorillas in a zoo going through their everyday lives. However, there are those who are further down the rabbit hole of intellectualism. You can choose which people you surround yourself with. Do you really want those shallow idiots who judge you by unchangeable traits?

Actually, you can’t choose who you surround yourself with. You can pick your own friends, but you can’t avoid the average person all the time. You don’t get to pick your classmates or your bullies at school and you don’t always get to pick your boss or coworkers at work. You don’t always get to pick your business partners, clients, and vendors either. You can pick your own girlfriend but you can’t pick who her friends are. You’ll have to interact with people who don’t share the same values, views, and morals with you no matter who you are. If you could avoid all of them completely, then you wouldn’t need to get LL. You could just surround yourself with people who don’t view additional height as a positive attribute and forget about the whole thing.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMAnd don't get started on brain stuff, you know what's the one special brain anatomy thing for humans? The enlarged growth of the parieto-temporal lobe. It actually grows over the insula in humans. you can see this type of evolution in other grand apes but in humans it's the most distinctive. What comes with this? Advanced speech, communication, and sociology (primarily). Thus, one can argue that for us the complexity of communication is far more important in sxxuality too.

That’s great, but you’ll never get a chance to open your mouth and exhibit any of those qualities if she writes you off instantly because of your height.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMSee, this sounds like a teen talking about "the meaning of life in a biological way is just fking ". The truth is, well yes, but actually no. Humans are supposed to be K-type reproductive species, which means their meaning of life is actually to RAISE their offspring, because it favors quality over quantity. That's also the best thesis as of now for the reason for homosxxuality (homosxxuals are determined to "help raise relative's offspring").

I am in no way attempting to define the meaning of life, but what I can do is tell you that those who care more about the quality of their offspring will be outbred by those who care more about the quantity of their offspring in the long run. Natural selection hardly applies to humans on an individual level nowadays. If you don’t raise your own kids, the taxpayer will.

Note that I’m not condoning this behavior nor would I partake, I’m just pointing out from a philosophical standpoint that what you deem to be meaningful is not the same to everyone.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMI think you should invest your money to feel better about yourself, gain more self worth, self esteem, in public situations or when under people. That will absolutely help you find a partner. and if you are below X type of percentile (probably 5'5 and below?), I agree that a really low height makes it HARD to find a partner so I see that this is a motivation of course.

Again, it’s not impossible for a man to find a partner no matter what his height is, and for most it's not even that hard. Almost everyone ends up dating at least a few people over the course of their lives. How difficult it is to find a partner that you like depends on how picky you are relative to what you bring to the table. If you are too picky then you either have to settle or need to do something about your height (or other attributes that could be improved.) I'm very picky, which is why I felt like I needed LL to improve my odds.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMSee, I agree with the partner thing though, the first impression of looks is important, but it is indeed subjective!!! never forget that. If you see someone, you will always have them unconsciously "scanned" if they are "your type" or not. This however can vary so much. For example, probably bc of my history of height-related mental illness, I would want a girl who is tall (6ft and above ideally, not that uncommon in my country btw). All of my friends say though that this would be a "red flag" for them. Most men want small or average girl, max the same height as them. Some of my friends even have a kink for "petite" girls. But a taller girlfriend? No way! For most of them at least, but for me it would be good. Even if I'd lengthen to 6'7 I'd prefer girls who are 6'7 and above lol. Maybe it's a fetish thing.
But see, it can vary and not all beauty norms are 100% true. Especially things like tan (which I absolutely dislike, pale is better ) or hairstyle etc,. but ironically, the universally important thing is height, maybe it represents a genome that was important in evolution, who knows.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but statistically some people are more attractive than others. If 50% of people find person A attractive and 95% of people find person B attractive, by definition person B is much more attractive than person A, but that doesn’t mean person A doesn’t have any prospects and it doesn't mean that everyone would find person B more attractive than person A. I personally like the type of girls that a large number of men would find attractive (so conventionally attractive ones) so I got LL to improve my chances in the competitive pool, because I want every edge that I can get when competition is fierce.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMBut maybe you are right and more people are only in for the sxxual aspects of LL, I am not though I do this for myself, not for anyone else, not to find a girlfriend or to be more attractive to girls (I couldn't stand when many girls would try to sxxually approach me anyways ugh. Just want a good one and be happy that's it).

What does it even mean to “do this for yourself?” I mean technically I did it for myself too. After all, I’m the one who ultimately benefits from getting it done. I think it’s actually pretty difficult to do this surgery purely for other people based on the nature of the surgery. Even if you’re not interested in dating, getting the surgery would still benefit you should you want to date. Even if you’re not interested in what other people think about you, you still benefit from the social acceptance of being taller.

I don’t just want to settle for a “good” one; if I was okay with that then I would have gotten married a long time ago and I would never do something as extreme as LL because it’s not difficult to find a decent girl and live happily ever after. I’m greedy as hell and I want the best possible female available to me. Of course, there’s some luck involved, but the idea behind getting LL is to increase my odds. Based on my personal experiences, height is what I was lacking the most. I’ll have to continue going through a lot of women to find the right one, but hey, life’s not perfect.

If you have lots of women gunning for you, then why do you need the surgery? Surely at least one must be attractive in your eyes.

Quote from: RealLostSoul on March 23, 2021, 10:40:51 PMoh and I forgot, about the moral dilemma. Morality is what advances in a progressing civilization. See how much different the world is now in comparison to medieval times. This is because collective morality is progressing in a sentient species. without any morale, a human-like species would destroy itself (which might eventually turn around and happen though). only very different species like a borg-like hive mind could progress and work. However, this just might be a theory of mine. And advanced humans judge no one by their looks anymore, eg. see how you would never hate a friend or family member because of their "lower than average" looks, right?. (we can't unchanged our inner program of mating preference though, you are right about that)

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if humanity destroys itself. Might as well enjoy your time on Earth living to your fullest potential.

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Quote from: V21 on March 23, 2021, 10:51:37 PMI don't know dude. My gf is a 5'8 model and I was 5'6 when we started dating. She did use to give me   about it lol. Anyway, I think character is the most important thing, women like people who listen to them, and who are "different". I don't think this crazy journey is worth it just to be more attractive to the other sxx. It's not like a few inches is THAT important. I had more success being 5'6 (I was incredibly jacked) than now at 5'8 lol. Just my opinion.

I have the exact opposite viewpoint as you. If you already have a wife or someone that you plan on staying together with permanently, then why suffer through LL? It's not like they were opposed to your original height to the point where they wouldn't be with you. You could spend the time and money doing something that's actually enjoyable. Surely you must have other meaningful goals in your life. I always write off LL when I'm in a relationship and the only reason I got around to doing LL is because I was single during the pandemic.

In dating the more picky you are the more you need every edge you can get, especially online dating. A few inches makes a huge difference and anyone who says otherwise is lying. All of the anecdotal historical experience on here points to a solid improvement in dating as a taller guy. Besides, if it wasn't important who in the world would spend almost $100K getting taller? The people of the forum are voting that it's important with their wallets.

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Quote from: BelowTheMean on March 24, 2021, 12:39:41 AMWhat does it even mean to “do this for yourself?” I mean technically I did it for myself too. After all, I’m the one who ultimately benefits from getting it done. I think it’s actually pretty difficult to do this surgery purely for other people based on the nature of the surgery. Even if you’re not interested in dating, getting the surgery would still benefit you should you want to date. Even if you’re not interested in what other people think about you, you still benefit from the social acceptance of being taller.

That is a very good point.