DoingItForMe's Precice 2 Internal Femurs with Dr. Paley

I'm about to have my consultation next week with Dr. Paley, so I decided it's time to start my diary.

The reason why I'm starting my diary is because I figured that many of you will probably not want to pay the $1,050 ($750 for consultation and $300 for X-Ray) to meet with Dr. Paley. But since I'm about to, leave your questions here and I'll ask him. His assistants sent me a FAQ from Dr. Paley, so I'll answer some of the questions based on his FAQ if it's already there. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste the whole FAQ here, so I'll just stick with that for now.

The X-ray is one day and the consultation is the following day. So you probably want to stay at a hotel in between days. Hotel for a day is probably $80-$100.

Here's the FAQ about me personally to preempt your questions:

Age: 26-30 (I won't give my exact age because it might reveal my identity, sorry)
Gender: Male
Starting height: 165 cm (5'5")
Starting weight: 154 lbs (might change when surgery day comes - I'm slightly overweight on purpose, because I want to have more soft tissue when the surgery comes. I will ask Dr. Paley if this is smart when the time comes.)
Wingspan: 170 cm (5'7")
Planned height: 173 cm (5'8") - 8 cm (3") increase
Starting flexibility: Standing straight up, I can touch the floor with the palms of my hand and still have a few cm of some slack left. I can't do a split, but if I sit in a V shape, my legs can split apart approximately 130 degrees. I'm capable of putting my legs behind my head. I can sit with my butt between my feet and knees bent and lean all the way back without a problem. Lying down with one leg straight up, I can form a 90 degrees angle without a problem.

How I'm paying for it: I'm self-made. I started coding apps after I read some poor person's autobiography about how he made millions from coding apps. One of the apps I wrote became very successful very quickly and is still successful (I will not say which one, because I'm not here to promote my business and because I don't want to reveal my identity). I expect all of the costs to add up to around $90,000-$100,000 (judging by other patient diaries from Dr. Paley). I plan to get my IT bands released. The financial loss and 6 months of not working much isn't a big deal to me.

Who I told about this surgery: My family and a few friends close to me who I trust to keep a secret. Nobody else. I learned from reading other people's diaries to not tell anyone, because supposedly this surgery is frowned upon by society. I don't need that kind of lack of support from people whose opinion I don't care about. So I will tell nobody else. A few years ago, I told a few close friends that I was considering it, and they were all against it and thought I was crazy for even considering it. The people who I've told that I'm actually doing it are also against it, but will support me if I go through with it.

Why I'm doing this: As my username implies, I'm doing this for me because I'm not 100% happy with the way I look. I look short and stumpy. I work out, but I'm not super cut or lean or anything like that. This is not for any other person besides myself. Two years ago, I was actually going to go to Dr. Betz for LL because I wanted 10 cm. But then I decided that I didn't want to spend 6 months of arguably my best physical years (mid-20s) in crutches. I also learned to accept my height and stopped giving much thought about my height after a while. Now in 2015, I'm still thinking about LL, and still can't stand the way I look in the mirror. And it's worse now because I'm getting older, so I can't pretend that I'm a teenager anymore. I'm perfectly happy with everything else going on in my life. I don't even have a issue with girls, because I've been dating pretty/smart girls since high school. Once girls get to know me, they stop caring about my height. But I'm realistic when I look in the mirror. I don't look attractive at this height. So I'm doing this purely because I want to finally be happy with the way I look. It's the only aspect of my life that I'm unhappy about. I understand the risks and pain, and I still want to go through with it. When I wear my 2-inch shoe lifts, I feel great about myself and the way I look. I want this feeling to be permanent.

Previous surgeries: None. The only things I've done to myself is Lasik and braces. Both of these corrected things that I wasn't too happy about in my life as well. And now I'm absolutely glad I did those operations. I hope LL will have the same effect on my life.

General health: Other than a slightly higher than average blood pressure and heart rate (still within healthy limits, but my dad suffered from HBP, so I'm watching what I eat now), I'm perfectly healthy. I'm going in for an annual physical tomorrow with my family doctor to check again to make sure. I read from some other diary that I should be doing this anyway prior to surgery.

Why I chose Dr. Paley: Proximity mainly. I live in the U.S. and don't want to go to a foreign country. The other reason is because I like the idea of Precice 2 (no pain with clicking like the Betzbone). I'm also okay with just 8 cm and below, because I don't want a higher risk of long-term complications. I think 8 cm and below is still sort of safe. I also don't want only 5 cm, because honestly, that really isn't that much. And the other reason is because other people seem to recommend him as the go-to doctor (besides Dr. G in Italy and Dr. R in NY) if money isn't a big issue. I'm not affiliated with Dr. Paley or any other doctor in any way, and will report on any complications I have and how Dr. Paley dealt with them.

Proportions: I think my femurs will be disproportional compared to my short tibia after surgery. I don't plan on getting my tibias lengthened until after I'm happy with my femur surgery. But most likely, I will not do it, because I don't want to put my body at risk again for something that isn't THAT important to me. I'm also worried that my 5'7" wingspan will look short compared to a 5'10" height, and I don't want to get my arms lengthened. My plan is to just wear 2-inch shoe lifts like I've been doing for the past few years. This will make my tibs appear longer and thus will make me look proportional again. Also, I think the ideal height for a male is 5'9"-5'11" (I read this online from a study). So 2-inch shoe lifts + 3-inch LL puts me right in that sweet 5'10" spot. But I think I will already look great at 5'8" (I tested this with 3" shoe lifts). I don't want to be greedy and gain permanent knee pain from internal tibia lengthening.

Surgery date: I plan on getting my surgery in late-June/early-July, so I'll probably be quiet in May/June. I'll let you guys know when I get it when I finalize the date during my consultation (they won't let me finalize the date until after the consultation is over).

odds of knee pain  arent that great... the more diaries i read, it seems that most people arent having many issues with knee pain
longer tibias also look better, but not a huge concern


and girls never stop caring about your height, so I think it's a good decision

Quote from: crimsontide on April 29, 2015, 12:42:40 AModds of knee pain  arent that great... the more diaries i read, it seems that most people arent having many issues with knee pain
longer tibias also look better, but not a huge concern


and girls never stop caring about your height, so I think it's a good decision

Thanks for the first comment! I remember reading the statistic somewhere that about 40% of patients had knee pain after internal tibia surgery. If it isn't knee pain while walking, it's knee pain while kneeling. I don't want any of that. I don't remember reading anything about knee pain for internal femurs, so I'm going to go with internal femurs.

I'm aware that longer tibias look better, but it also takes long to stretch/recover and you also get less out of the surgery than femurs (I think 6 cm was the recommended max while femurs were 8 cm?). Don't normally wear shorts, so I think I'll be okay. I'll consider tibias after I'm done with femurs and recover fully (probably 2 years from now). Hopefully by then, there'll be something that doesn't give knee pain. Maybe external tibia? But for now, I'll be happy with 5' 8" and some shoe lifts to get to 5' 10". Shoe lifts will give me the same effect as a 2" tibia surgery without the actual surgery. I think that's a better choice for me. But shoe lifts to take me to 5'7" from 5'5" isn't that big of a difference. I still look short. Just less short. 5' 10" would be nice, and would be a dream come true.

Congrats on starting your journey man. I think you've made a fantastic decision, and you're in the best hands possible with Dr. Paley.

5'8" is pretty decent height. I was a little over 5'5", and my final height is now 5'8" (internal femurs). I'm actually considering adding on another inch next year from just re-breaking the femurs and using the same rods already inside. My femurs will probably look pretty disproportionate at that point, but tibias just take way too long, and I don't want to do (or pay for) a second full-blown LL...and 5'9" is a height that I think I would be 100% perfectly fine with. I don't really care about proportions too much, and in clothes, long femurs are pretty easy to hide. I just slept with another girl this past weekend, told her I did LL...she said she would have never noticed had it not been for the crutches and me telling her (and obviously she saw me nked)..she was 5'6" and I was comfortably taller than her

Quote from: YellowSpike on April 29, 2015, 02:00:11 AMCongrats on starting your journey man. I think you've made a fantastic decision, and you're in the best hands possible with Dr. Paley.

5'8" is pretty decent height. I was a little over 5'5", and my final height is now 5'8" (internal femurs). I'm actually considering adding on another inch next year from just re-breaking the femurs and using the same rods already inside. My femurs will probably look pretty disproportionate at that point, but tibias just take way too long, and I don't want to do (or pay for) a second full-blown LL...and 5'9" is a height that I think I would be 100% perfectly fine with. I don't really care about proportions too much, and in clothes, long femurs are pretty easy to hide. I just slept with another girl this past weekend, told her I did LL...she said she would have never noticed had it not been for the crutches and me telling her (and obviously she saw me nked)..she was 5'6" and I was comfortably taller than her

You sound happy with your new height. That's awesome to hear! Yea, I wish my final height was 5'9" instead of 5'8". But 8 cm is the max that Precice 2 will go. I'll stick with shoe lifts I guess. I read through your diary. I'm not caught up in the numbers game and don't mind not reaching 5'9". I just want to look good. I'm also worried about being limited if I don't do an IT band release, which I see in your diary that you didn't do. You said that it's a 20% decrease in athletics once I do that? I'm not so worried about losing athletic ability, because honestly, I'm not great at sports to begin with and don't plan on playing more sports in the future. If you could go back in time, would you have done the IT band release?

Quote from: DoingItForMe on April 29, 2015, 03:20:11 AMYou sound happy with your new height. That's awesome to hear! Yea, I wish my final height was 5'9" instead of 5'8". But 8 cm is the max that Precice 2 will go. I'll stick with shoe lifts I guess. I read through your diary. I'm not caught up in the numbers game and don't mind not reaching 5'9". I just want to look good. I'm also worried about being limited if I don't do an IT band release, which I see in your diary that you didn't do. You said that it's a 20% decrease in athletics once I do that? I'm not so worried about losing athletic ability, because honestly, I'm not great at sports to begin with and don't plan on playing more sports in the future. If you could go back in time, would you have done the IT band release?

Yeah I'm more or less happy with my new height, as it was in line with my expectations (around 7cm). I went with Dr. Guichet, and he does not do ITB releases as far as I know. I don't know if an ITB release would have made much of a difference. I personally didn't want the ITB release, as it was just one less part of my body that was tampered with. But Paley and Rozbruch do it for many patients, and they have no issues. I believe Dr. G ordered me to stop clicking when he did because my left leg was healing slowly (and it makes sense, because left leg clicks had become very painful, and I had a lot of numbness around the shin and knee area).

I was admittedly (and still am, to a degree) caught up in the numbers game because it's been so ingrained in my head that 5'8" is the absolute bare minimum that a guy should be to avoid most height discrimination. So getting to 5'8" (evening height) is great, but I'm thinking of doing a little more only as a buffer (and factoring in shrinking as I get older). I have the option of doing a femur re-break next year, and from what I know, it will be much, much faster to just bang out one more inch. But maybe I won't feel the need to do it. We shall see.

When is your surgery?

I plan on getting my surgery in late-June/early-July. I already have time off from work planned and have someone planned to take care of me for the first month. I don't have an exact date yet, because Dr. Paley doesn't allow people to book a surgery date without a consultation first. I'll let you guys know when I finalize the date during my consultation next week.

I think programdude also didn't release his IT band, and he's having some pain, too. I wonder if this is related? Hopefully people who did and didn't have IT bands released can chime in on their experience with it.

Quote from: DoingItForMe on April 29, 2015, 03:57:16 AMI plan on getting my surgery in late-June/early-July. I already have time off from work planned and have someone planned to take care of me for the first month. I don't have an exact date yet, because Dr. Paley doesn't allow people to book a surgery date without a consultation first. I'll let you guys know when I finalize the date during my consultation next week.

I think programdude also didn't release his IT band, and he's having some pain, too. I wonder if this is related? Hopefully people who did and didn't have IT bands released can chime in on their experience with it.

I know ChrisIsaak had an ITB release on only one leg, and has said his legs felt the same pretty much throughout the process. From what I know Programdude is doing well, I think maybe his recovery has taken a bit longer is because 8cm is actually quite a lot. I think it's considered the "safe" limit for femurs, but it's still a pretty high amount. I personally had never planned on doing past 7cm in one procedure (but might if I do the femur re-break for another inch max), but I think you'll be fine to go to 8cm, it just may take longer to recover.

Regardless, don't worry...either way, you're in great hands with Dr. Paley!

Thanks! Dr. Paley probably has the most experience with ITB release vs no ITB release. So I'll ask him when the x-rays are done and the flexibility tests are done. I think programdude was flexible enough that he didn't have to have ITB released. But he also started off at 5'8" (lucky dude). I'll let you know what Dr. Paley says about it.

Quote from: DoingItForMe on April 29, 2015, 04:59:39 AMThanks! Dr. Paley probably has the most experience with ITB release vs no ITB release. So I'll ask him when the x-rays are done and the flexibility tests are done. I think programdude was flexible enough that he didn't have to have ITB released. But he also started off at 5'8" (lucky dude). I'll let you know what Dr. Paley says about it.

Everyone is different. My flexibility pre-op was pretty good, probably slightly above average I'd say. I was in very good shape pre-op (especially because I did Dr. G's pre-training requirements), yet I struggled to get ~7cm. I had a pretty good amount of pain from 5cm and onwards, and was told I had to stop around 7cm. I kinda feel like LL is one of those "life is like a box of chocolates" things...you can be young and in amazing shape and still really struggle with this. I also think it also helps to have a better starting height as PD did (I think that makes it a bit easier to stretch the soft tissue, which is the limiting factor for most LLs, and certainly was for me). I don't think adding on another inch or so in a year will be hard because I"ll know exactly what to expect at that point...

Keep us posted on your consultation!