I'm about to have my consultation next week with Dr. Paley, so I decided it's time to start my diary.
The reason why I'm starting my diary is because I figured that many of you will probably not want to pay the $1,050 ($750 for consultation and $300 for X-Ray) to meet with Dr. Paley. But since I'm about to, leave your questions here and I'll ask him. His assistants sent me a FAQ from Dr. Paley, so I'll answer some of the questions based on his FAQ if it's already there. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste the whole FAQ here, so I'll just stick with that for now.
The X-ray is one day and the consultation is the following day. So you probably want to stay at a hotel in between days. Hotel for a day is probably $80-$100.
Here's the FAQ about me personally to preempt your questions:
Age: 26-30 (I won't give my exact age because it might reveal my identity, sorry)
Gender: Male
Starting height: 165 cm (5'5")
Starting weight: 154 lbs (might change when surgery day comes - I'm slightly overweight on purpose, because I want to have more soft tissue when the surgery comes. I will ask Dr. Paley if this is smart when the time comes.)
Wingspan: 170 cm (5'7")
Planned height: 173 cm (5'8") - 8 cm (3") increase
Starting flexibility: Standing straight up, I can touch the floor with the palms of my hand and still have a few cm of some slack left. I can't do a split, but if I sit in a V shape, my legs can split apart approximately 130 degrees. I'm capable of putting my legs behind my head. I can sit with my butt between my feet and knees bent and lean all the way back without a problem. Lying down with one leg straight up, I can form a 90 degrees angle without a problem.
How I'm paying for it: I'm self-made. I started coding apps after I read some poor person's autobiography about how he made millions from coding apps. One of the apps I wrote became very successful very quickly and is still successful (I will not say which one, because I'm not here to promote my business and because I don't want to reveal my identity). I expect all of the costs to add up to around $90,000-$100,000 (judging by other patient diaries from Dr. Paley). I plan to get my IT bands released. The financial loss and 6 months of not working much isn't a big deal to me.
Who I told about this surgery: My family and a few friends close to me who I trust to keep a secret. Nobody else. I learned from reading other people's diaries to not tell anyone, because supposedly this surgery is frowned upon by society. I don't need that kind of lack of support from people whose opinion I don't care about. So I will tell nobody else. A few years ago, I told a few close friends that I was considering it, and they were all against it and thought I was crazy for even considering it. The people who I've told that I'm actually doing it are also against it, but will support me if I go through with it.
Why I'm doing this: As my username implies, I'm doing this for me because I'm not 100% happy with the way I look. I look short and stumpy. I work out, but I'm not super cut or lean or anything like that. This is not for any other person besides myself. Two years ago, I was actually going to go to Dr. Betz for LL because I wanted 10 cm. But then I decided that I didn't want to spend 6 months of arguably my best physical years (mid-20s) in crutches. I also learned to accept my height and stopped giving much thought about my height after a while. Now in 2015, I'm still thinking about LL, and still can't stand the way I look in the mirror. And it's worse now because I'm getting older, so I can't pretend that I'm a teenager anymore. I'm perfectly happy with everything else going on in my life. I don't even have a issue with girls, because I've been dating pretty/smart girls since high school. Once girls get to know me, they stop caring about my height. But I'm realistic when I look in the mirror. I don't look attractive at this height. So I'm doing this purely because I want to finally be happy with the way I look. It's the only aspect of my life that I'm unhappy about. I understand the risks and pain, and I still want to go through with it. When I wear my 2-inch shoe lifts, I feel great about myself and the way I look. I want this feeling to be permanent.
Previous surgeries: None. The only things I've done to myself is Lasik and braces. Both of these corrected things that I wasn't too happy about in my life as well. And now I'm absolutely glad I did those operations. I hope LL will have the same effect on my life.
General health: Other than a slightly higher than average blood pressure and heart rate (still within healthy limits, but my dad suffered from HBP, so I'm watching what I eat now), I'm perfectly healthy. I'm going in for an annual physical tomorrow with my family doctor to check again to make sure. I read from some other diary that I should be doing this anyway prior to surgery.
Why I chose Dr. Paley: Proximity mainly. I live in the U.S. and don't want to go to a foreign country. The other reason is because I like the idea of Precice 2 (no pain with clicking like the Betzbone). I'm also okay with just 8 cm and below, because I don't want a higher risk of long-term complications. I think 8 cm and below is still sort of safe. I also don't want only 5 cm, because honestly, that really isn't that much. And the other reason is because other people seem to recommend him as the go-to doctor (besides Dr. G in Italy and Dr. R in NY) if money isn't a big issue. I'm not affiliated with Dr. Paley or any other doctor in any way, and will report on any complications I have and how Dr. Paley dealt with them.
Proportions: I think my femurs will be disproportional compared to my short tibia after surgery. I don't plan on getting my tibias lengthened until after I'm happy with my femur surgery. But most likely, I will not do it, because I don't want to put my body at risk again for something that isn't THAT important to me. I'm also worried that my 5'7" wingspan will look short compared to a 5'10" height, and I don't want to get my arms lengthened. My plan is to just wear 2-inch shoe lifts like I've been doing for the past few years. This will make my tibs appear longer and thus will make me look proportional again. Also, I think the ideal height for a male is 5'9"-5'11" (I read this online from a study). So 2-inch shoe lifts + 3-inch LL puts me right in that sweet 5'10" spot. But I think I will already look great at 5'8" (I tested this with 3" shoe lifts). I don't want to be greedy and gain permanent knee pain from internal tibia lengthening.
Surgery date: I plan on getting my surgery in late-June/early-July, so I'll probably be quiet in May/June. I'll let you guys know when I get it when I finalize the date during my consultation (they won't let me finalize the date until after the consultation is over).
DoingItForMe's Precice 2 Internal Femurs with Dr. Paley
Quote from: crimsontide on April 29, 2015, 12:42:40 AModds of knee pain arent that great... the more diaries i read, it seems that most people arent having many issues with knee pain
longer tibias also look better, but not a huge concern
and girls never stop caring about your height, so I think it's a good decision
Thanks for the first comment! I remember reading the statistic somewhere that about 40% of patients had knee pain after internal tibia surgery. If it isn't knee pain while walking, it's knee pain while kneeling. I don't want any of that. I don't remember reading anything about knee pain for internal femurs, so I'm going to go with internal femurs.
I'm aware that longer tibias look better, but it also takes long to stretch/recover and you also get less out of the surgery than femurs (I think 6 cm was the recommended max while femurs were 8 cm?). Don't normally wear shorts, so I think I'll be okay. I'll consider tibias after I'm done with femurs and recover fully (probably 2 years from now). Hopefully by then, there'll be something that doesn't give knee pain. Maybe external tibia? But for now, I'll be happy with 5' 8" and some shoe lifts to get to 5' 10". Shoe lifts will give me the same effect as a 2" tibia surgery without the actual surgery. I think that's a better choice for me. But shoe lifts to take me to 5'7" from 5'5" isn't that big of a difference. I still look short. Just less short. 5' 10" would be nice, and would be a dream come true.
Quote from: YellowSpike on April 29, 2015, 02:00:11 AMCongrats on starting your journey man. I think you've made a fantastic decision, and you're in the best hands possible with Dr. Paley.
5'8" is pretty decent height. I was a little over 5'5", and my final height is now 5'8" (internal femurs). I'm actually considering adding on another inch next year from just re-breaking the femurs and using the same rods already inside. My femurs will probably look pretty disproportionate at that point, but tibias just take way too long, and I don't want to do (or pay for) a second full-blown LL...and 5'9" is a height that I think I would be 100% perfectly fine with. I don't really care about proportions too much, and in clothes, long femurs are pretty easy to hide. I just slept with another girl this past weekend, told her I did LL...she said she would have never noticed had it not been for the crutches and me telling her (and obviously she saw me nked)..she was 5'6" and I was comfortably taller than her 
You sound happy with your new height. That's awesome to hear! Yea, I wish my final height was 5'9" instead of 5'8". But 8 cm is the max that Precice 2 will go. I'll stick with shoe lifts I guess. I read through your diary. I'm not caught up in the numbers game and don't mind not reaching 5'9". I just want to look good. I'm also worried about being limited if I don't do an IT band release, which I see in your diary that you didn't do. You said that it's a 20% decrease in athletics once I do that? I'm not so worried about losing athletic ability, because honestly, I'm not great at sports to begin with and don't plan on playing more sports in the future. If you could go back in time, would you have done the IT band release?
I plan on getting my surgery in late-June/early-July. I already have time off from work planned and have someone planned to take care of me for the first month. I don't have an exact date yet, because Dr. Paley doesn't allow people to book a surgery date without a consultation first. I'll let you guys know when I finalize the date during my consultation next week.
I think programdude also didn't release his IT band, and he's having some pain, too. I wonder if this is related? Hopefully people who did and didn't have IT bands released can chime in on their experience with it.
Thanks! Dr. Paley probably has the most experience with ITB release vs no ITB release. So I'll ask him when the x-rays are done and the flexibility tests are done. I think programdude was flexible enough that he didn't have to have ITB released. But he also started off at 5'8" (lucky dude). I'll let you know what Dr. Paley says about it.
Quote from: programdude on April 29, 2015, 07:18:34 AMJust want to comment that I don't think Paley will operate on someone who doesn't get a consult first. Best of luck man!
Yup. His assistants told me the same. Are there any tips for me before I go next week? Something I should ask him when I see him?
Quote from: MiniM on April 30, 2015, 02:01:54 AMif I book the surgery date, I'm consider about accommadation, still quit confuse about it. The hosipital will book that for u or urself? I will take the one Dr Paley recommended
And price for three month, I think if u r their patient and want to stay for months there's discount for it. but How much?
I'm from other country, do I only can use the credict card or I can apply for an account there in u.s
So many questions
If you're under 18, you can stay with other people in the same house (called the Quantum House) for $35/night. If you're over 18, you can book a hotel close-by. They have a shuttle that will take you to the hospital. Prices are around $70/night for a studio and $80/night for a one bedroom. These are discount prices that the hospital helps you get for being a patient. Otherwise, they're normally around $100/night. The hotels probably take Visa/Mastercard if you have those. I don't know who books it yet, but I do know that you have to be a patient to get discount prices on the hotels. He recommends 4 different extended-stay hotels. They all seem similar. I will find out more for you when I have a surgery date and can finally book the hotel.
Just had the consultation last week. I also saw my family doctor two weeks ago, and I waited to update my journal until after I got back my lab results for a complete physical.
May 5th - X-ray Day
First thing I did when I got to the Paley Institute was sign in. I had already filled out and signed my forms prior to arriving. My appointment was at 2 PM, and I got the x-ray done at around 3 PM. The x-ray machine was called EOS, this was the first one in Florida. It does a fall body scan and gives high-res x-rays of the whole body. They gave me a green hospital gown and I stood for about half an hour in the x-ray machine, which was a circular cylinder looking machine with an opening for you to get it. If you were to look at the it from above, it'd look like the letter C. It stood about 8 ft high. They took only two scans. One with my legs staggered (right foot in front and left foot in back), and one without both legs together.
By 4 PM, I was out of the hospital, and I went to the outlet malls nearby and visited the Tesla dealership to pass time. All were only 10 minutes away from the hospital.
May 6th - Dr. Paley Consultation Day
The appointment was for 7:30 AM, but since I already registered myself, I came at 7:50 AM and was still okay. They don't officially open until 8 AM anyway. The first person I met was John the PA. He asked me a bunch of questions about my height and then made me stand on these wooden blocks that were 2 inches and 3 inches high. He asked how I felt standing on them. I said that I felt like I was at a normal height after standing on them. He told me that since I'm still young, I should expect a good recovery as long as I keep stretching every day: About 1 hour in the morning, 1 hour in the afternoon and 1 hour at night. The one hour of stretching in the afternoon will be with the PT, so it's really 2 hours of stretching on my own. It was recommended that I have someone for at least 2 weeks to help me stretch. Recommended is 4-6 weeks. I'll be having someone for 5 weeks to help me out.
About an hour later or so, Dr. Paley comes into the room and we talk about our lives. He was very interested in my life, because it's not normal for someone this young to pay for the surgery himself. Normally, it's parents paying for their kids. I explain that I was just a normal 9-5 office worker and living a normal life. But then I became a self-made millionaire app developer after I read and followed the advice from this autobiography from a successful app developer. The book's called Lifehacked and I highly recommend it as a good read even if you're not into app development - I wasn't prior to reading it. Anyway, I go to explain how my app helps people, and how I'm semi-retired and I mostly do charity work now. This part of the story is important, because later on, he helps me out with the surgery date because of my life story. I'll explain more at the end of this entry.
He has John do a flexibility test and confirmed that I needed an IT band release, because my legs don't drop when I lay on my side and make an open scissor shape with my legs. They stay straight and Dr. Paley explains that it's my IT band that's holding them up.
IT band release
In regards to the IT band, Dr. Paley explained that it shouldn't have any long-term effects. He said that after a few weeks, the area where he cuts heals up. And when he looks at the x-rays, it looks almost as if he never cut them in the first place. I asked if I'd lose any athletic ability for doing it. He said no.
Long-term effects of LL
I asked if he kept in touch with his old patients. He said that someone he operated on 26 years ago talked to him and the patient was still fine. He said that none of his previous patients have mentioned anything about arthritis or any other long-term effects. He said that since I'm in my 20s, I can expect an almost 100% chance that I'd have no long-term effects. He said that nobody in their 20s who had this operation had any long-term effects. He also explained that those with complications are usually the ones who don't follow the stretching or his advise. He said that there was one person who wouldn't return the device that stretches his nail.
What to do prior to surgery
Dr. Paley told me to start taking Silica supplements. These are mostly vitamins such as calcium and Vitamin D to promote bone growth. Seems expensive compared to other over-the-counter vitamin supplements. But Dr. Paley recommended them, so I'll be taking them. I was advised to start taking them a week before surgery. I asked if I needed to lose weight, and he said no. I have a suspicion that those with muscular legs will have a harder time with LL, so I'm going to not work out my legs prior to surgery. I hope that I'm correct with this theory. I asked him if stretching prior to the surgery will help, and he said that it probably wouldn't. He said that the effects of stretching only lasts for a few hours. I'm going to try to do some stretches anyway to get myself into a routine prior to surgery.
Precice 2.1
I was told that at around December 2014, he switched to Precice 2.1, which is an update to Precice 2.0. He said that it had better welding and was improved after his experiences with the Precice 2.0. I asked if this was the final nail version and can't be improved further. He said that things always have room for improvement, but that I shouldn't keep waiting for the next best thing, because I'd always just be waiting then. He explained that he's working on a nail that will be completely weight-bearing with much stronger material.
Finally, a nurse named Mary came in to take my vitals, such as height and weight and blood pressure, and then I was given the okay to leave. It was around 10 AM when they were all done. I tried to book my surgery date while I was still there, but the doctor was too busy to give me an available surgery date. I told them that I wanted a late June surgery.
I found out that I'm actually 164 cm from the test at Dr. Paley's office. And 164.5 cm from the test at my family doctor's office. So I'm actually 5' 4.5" - 5' 4.7". With 8 cm added, I'll be 5' 7.9", which is still very close to my realistic goal of 5' 8". Ideally, I'd like to be 5' 10" or 5' 11", but I don't think I'd want to do tibias.
Rundown of the Pricing
Paid by credit card:
$300 for x-ray
$750 for the consultation with Paley
$10,000 deposit for surgery
$159.95 for 3-month supply of Silica 1, Silica 2, and Silica Boost supplements.
$7,291.20 for 3-month stay at Hilton Homewood Suites (93-nights * $70/night + 12% tax)
Paid by wire transfer:
$75,000 surgery - Total surgery was $85,000 which includes the $5000 IT band release. Originally, it was $90,000, but I got a $5,000 discount for mentioning that I was part of the old forum, which was true.
My health insurance might have helped pay partially for these, but here's my out-of-pocket expenses:
$77 for Vitamin D test
$8 for one month supply of Vitamin D supplements
In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have paid for the Vitamin D test, because my complete physical tested my Vitamin D levels. Also the nurse at St. Mary's who gave me the test, didn't bother finding a good vein. She just stabbed in a seemingly random location (not even close to the crease on my elbow), and this left that area bruised (internal bleeding).
In terms of accommodations, the Hilton Homewood Suites seems like the best choice. I was given the option of $70 for a studio suite or $80 for a one-bedroom suite. I chose a studio. It comes with free breakfast everyday and free dinner from Monday-Thursday. There is a swimming pool with a lift. The discount price is offered when you mention that you are a patient at the hospital. Normally it's $99 a night for the studio suite. Internet is free and comes with wired and wifi. Kitchen comes with a coffee pot, and free beverages. It also has pots and pans and dishes. The housekeeper can clean the dishes for you everyday. There's a $100 fee if you have a pet (up to 2 pets and 75 lb each). The $100 fee is to pay for the cleaners to clean the room after you leave, so that the room is allergy-free for the next person staying. I don't know how long I need to stay the hotel, but I was told that lengthening starts 5 days after surgery, and 80 days are needed to stretch 80 mm (1 mm per day). They told me to book the full 3 months to just be on the safe side, in case some days I might not lengthen the full 1 mm. I booked 93 nights just to be on the safe side. I was told by the hotel that I could shorten the days if I explain my situation when I arrive. We'll see how true this is. Be sure to book early, because there were only two studio suites left in my time frame when I booked.
My lab results from my family doctor found that I'm mostly healthy. My cholesterol levels are a bit high, and my doctor told me to go on a low-carb idea to lose weight. My glucose levels are also a bit high, so I'm going to cut back on my sugar intake (which coincides with my cut back on carbs anyway). I'm currently at 153 lb. Dr. Paley said that my weight is fine, but I plan on being a bit more fit prior to surgery to get into the routine of having a strict diet and ample stretching and exercising.
My surgery date is booked for June 30th with June 29th as a pre-op day. Dr. Paley actually was going to be on vacation in those two weeks. But he explained that he liked who I was, and was willing to come during his vacation to do the surgery. The next available surgery date if he didn't do that was in September. He said that most people book a year in advance to get a summer date, because summer is usually when his patients don't have school, so thus is when he is the busiest. While I don't need to go to school, the person who's taking care of me for 5 weeks is in college and is only available in July. So that's why I requested a late June surgery date, and Dr. Paley was nice enough to help me out. He explained that he meets with many prospective stature patients but rarely does he take the interest he did with me. I guess you can call it karma.
Thanks for all the support guys. I'm going to give as much detailed account as possible whenever it's possible. YellowSpike, I don't mind not reaching 5'8" fully. I just want to be taller. At 5'4.5, I'm only taller than about 4% of adult males (20-29). At 5'8, I'll only be taller than 33% of males, but that's a big improvement! Source: https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0209.pdf If you're 5'9, you'll be taller than 42% of males. It sounds like you won't be happy unless you get that extra inch. I'd say go for it. Just go get to 5'9" and then want more again. Gaining height can be addictive, as John the PA told me. But he also said that most people only do one surgery, because they're happy with their new height already.
Quote from: programdude on May 16, 2015, 11:33:51 PMSorry I didn't check to see your post about tips, but it looks like you did fine.
That is a very useful compilation of information for someone examining this, and looks to be accurate(though I think home woods rates change based on time of year?)
Homewood discount rates seem to change based on their negotiations with St. Mary's. The price I gave $70 per night started since December 2014, and apparently still is at that price.
Quote from: Tyler_Durden on May 29, 2015, 11:30:19 PMHey man good luck!
I'm going to have consultation with Paley on the 21-24th of June
I wanted to ask you regarding the IT band release . You said :
"because my legs don't drop when I lay on my side and make an open scissor shape with my legs They stay straight"
If I do that they are not falling as well but thats because I'm holding my legs on purpose so if I just let them go they will fall. What does it means? I don't think I've understand how do you if you need to release your IT band?
Don't try to figure this out on your own. If you're doing the consultation with Paley anyway, they will test your flexibility. Most likely, you will want your IT bands released if you are trying for 3 inches. Other than losing $5,000, Dr. Paley says that there's no long term side effects of having your IT bands released.
You must be logged in to post a reply.