Help! I need options for LL, I'm a newbie and a 4'8" girl!

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Posts: 268

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 1, 2018, 7:52 pm

#21

Quote from: Kotiki on August 01, 2018, 04:19:15 AMHi there

Thanks for posting the video. One picture says more than a million words. While your whole figure/legs aren't visible, it is obvious that you have a very compact torso+neck.

There are stretching techniques you can do that, combined with glucosamine chondroitin, will elongate your neck and spine by about 2 cm. This will have an added benefit of making you look slimmer (not that there's any problem with weight).

Your goal of adding 14 cm to your legs is completely unrealistic. The longer the segment the more it can be lengthened. Starting with tiny tibias there is no way you could lengthen 7 centimetres safely. Even if you could, it wouldn't look good combined with your short torso.

You can probably safely lengthen your tibias by about 5 cm. Since you don't have the funds I would recommend external methods. I appreciate it that external method turns you off. But there's one thing you must consider: external method is a pain in the butt, but it is not by any means more scary than internal. For tibia specifically, it is far less dangerous to leave the knee joints and the inside of the bones alone and lengthen with externals. As a bonus, it can be done at a fraction of the cost.

With tibias and spinal stretching you could add 6 cm to your height. In the meantime, precise 3 could become more affordable in the next five years, so precise 3 would be the next logical step.

I wish you all the luck!

Hello @kotiki,

Thanks for your information. I know that it is possible to lengthen the spine up to 2cm but that is nearly nothing in height. It isn't very significant. Plus, I've heard that once you naturally lengthen the spine and neck, with a lot of movement and weight training, it has the potential to go back to the compressed way it was before. So it isn't a permanent nor significant solution. I respect your opinion about my goals being unrealistic. I think how much a person can lengthen is according to their frame and the ability of the bones to do so. However, I've seen much shorter people like 4'4", lengthen about 16cm all together in two surgeries, with the their tibias and femurs. I'd rather not even bother with the surgery if all I'm going to be able to lengthen is 5cm. To me that sounds like a joke and would only put me at 4'10". I want to be at least 5'2", which is still considered short but at least it's over 5". I think it all depends with the patient's individual ability to lengthen, and what the doctor recommends is safe. I know that Dr. Paley doesn't allow more than 5cm for the tibias, but then I also know that Dr. Mahboubian was able to get a patient to lengthen about 7-8cm in the tibias.

As far the externals go. I don't care too much about the scarring and I think scars are sort of unique. But I've heard that the externals are much more painful and have worse complications than the internals. Plus, the outside pins cut through your skin and muscles, leaving really bad scars. That can't be good. So for just a cheaper price with the externals, I'd rathere just save up a bit more and due the internals or precice 3.

I do agree that maybe it wouldn't be very realistic to lengthen 14cm or more with my height. Also, the fact that my wingspan is the same as my height does not help. I do not want to look like a T-Rex, as I've mentioned in the past lol. But I think that this surgery has a lot of pros and cons, and you just have to be positive and lengthen as much as you can but safely of course. I hope that my lengthening goal can me reached. Thanks again for your comment.

Edit Post

Quote from: Kotiki on August 01, 2018, 04:19:15 AMHi there

Thanks for posting the video. One picture says more than a million words. While your whole figure/legs aren't visible, it is obvious that you have a very compact torso+neck.

There are stretching techniques you can do that, combined with glucosamine chondroitin, will elongate your neck and spine by about 2 cm. This will have an added benefit of making you look slimmer (not that there's any problem with weight).

Your goal of adding 14 cm to your legs is completely unrealistic. The longer the segment the more it can be lengthened. Starting with tiny tibias there is no way you could lengthen 7 centimetres safely. Even if you could, it wouldn't look good combined with your short torso.

You can probably safely lengthen your tibias by about 5 cm. Since you don't have the funds I would recommend external methods. I appreciate it that external method turns you off. But there's one thing you must consider: external method is a pain in the butt, but it is not by any means more scary than internal. For tibia specifically, it is far less dangerous to leave the knee joints and the inside of the bones alone and lengthen with externals. As a bonus, it can be done at a fraction of the cost.

With tibias and spinal stretching you could add 6 cm to your height. In the meantime, precise 3 could become more affordable in the next five years, so precise 3 would be the next logical step.

I wish you all the luck!

Hello @kotiki,

Thanks for your information. I know that it is possible to lengthen the spine up to 2cm but that is nearly nothing in height. It isn't very significant. Plus, I've heard that once you naturally lengthen the spine and neck, with a lot of movement and weight training, it has the potential to go back to the compressed way it was before. So it isn't a permanent nor significant solution. I respect your opinion about my goals being unrealistic. I think how much a person can lengthen is according to their frame and the ability of the bones to do so. However, I've seen much shorter people like 4'4", lengthen about 16cm all together in two surgeries, with the their tibias and femurs. I'd rather not even bother with the surgery if all I'm going to be able to lengthen is 5cm. To me that sounds like a joke and would only put me at 4'10". I want to be at least 5'2", which is still considered short but at least it's over 5". I think it all depends with the patient's individual ability to lengthen, and what the doctor recommends is safe. I know that Dr. Paley doesn't allow more than 5cm for the tibias, but then I also know that Dr. Mahboubian was able to get a patient to lengthen about 7-8cm in the tibias.

As far the externals go. I don't care too much about the scarring and I think scars are sort of unique. But I've heard that the externals are much more painful and have worse complications than the internals. Plus, the outside pins cut through your skin and muscles, leaving really bad scars. That can't be good. So for just a cheaper price with the externals, I'd rathere just save up a bit more and due the internals or precice 3.

I do agree that maybe it wouldn't be very realistic to lengthen 14cm or more with my height. Also, the fact that my wingspan is the same as my height does not help. I do not want to look like a T-Rex, as I've mentioned in the past lol. But I think that this surgery has a lot of pros and cons, and you just have to be positive and lengthen as much as you can but safely of course. I hope that my lengthening goal can me reached. Thanks again for your comment.

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naimah99

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Posts: 435

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 1, 2018, 7:58 pm

#22

Quote from: myloginacc on July 31, 2018, 08:28:30 AMLoL. Two promoters in a single thread.

Naimah, talk to Unicorn through PMs. I could recommend a few other members, but they're unavailable right now. Don't trust everything you read here.

Don't go to anyone but Paley and Rozbruch if you want to stay as safe as possible, and don't want to leave the US.

Hello @myloginacc ,

Thank you for your comment. I do agree that Paley, Rozbruch, and maybe even Mahboubian are really safe and great options. It would mean a lot of you could recommend a few other members as you said in your comment. I'm really weighing in my options here and saving up to do this and I want to avoid any disastrous mistakes that will cost me my mobility for the rest of my life. Also what do you think about my lengthening goals? 8cm in femurs and 8cm in the tibias? A few members have commented or told me that this is super unrealistic in proportion to my torso, arms, and overall frame. Thanks again, much love!

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Purushrottam

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Posts: 127

Joined: Sep 2017

Posted on Aug 2, 2018, 4:48 am

#23

Whats your budget? Doing quadrilaterals is rather expensive. I took a loan (SoFi) to do a bilateral femoral operation with Precice 2.3 (Paley). I believe a femur operation with STRYDE is $95,000 and the tibial operation is $105,000. The combined operations (done 3 weeks apart) is $190,000.

EDIT: I forgot to mention:

At 4'8", I think you can medically qualify as suffering from a form of dwarfism ( I think its 4'8" and under). This means that you might be able to get insurance to cover part of the surgery.

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naimah99

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Posts: 189

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 2, 2018, 5:43 am

#24

Quote from: Purushrottam on August 02, 2018, 04:48:14 AMWhats your budget? Doing quadrilaterals is rather expensive. I took a loan (SoFi) to do a bilateral femoral operation with Precice 2.3 (Paley). I believe a femur operation with STRYDE is $95,000 and the tibial operation is $105,000. The combined operations (done 3 weeks apart) is $190,000.

EDIT: I forgot to mention:

At 4'8", I think you can medically qualify as suffering from a form of dwarfism ( I think its 4'8" and under). This means that you might be able to get insurance to cover part of the surgery.

Hello @purushrottam,

Yes I know that the quadrilateral surgery is very expensive especially when done with STRYDE and Dr. Paley. If I may ask, how was your surgery and how much length did you gain? As far as the financial aspect, I know I can’t take a loan but it would still not cover half of the procedure for the quadrilaterals, but loans are a possibility. Also, I actually didn’t know that I could qualify as having some form of dwarfism. How do I apply for this so that insurance can help me with the surgery? Do you know?

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Purushrottam

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Posts: 112

Joined: Sep 2017

Posted on Aug 3, 2018, 2:30 am

#25

Quote from: naimah99 on August 02, 2018, 05:43:19 AM
Hello @purushrottam,

Yes I know that the quadrilateral surgery is very expensive especially when done with STRYDE and Dr. Paley. If I may ask, how was your surgery and how much length did you gain? As far as the financial aspect, I know I can’t take a loan but it would still not cover half of the procedure for the quadrilaterals, but loans are a possibility. Also, I actually didn’t know that I could qualify as having some form of dwarfism. How do I apply for this so that insurance can help me with the surgery? Do you know?

My surgery was good. I gained 6.5 cm to go from 168.5 cm to 175 cm.

This is my diary detailing my experiences: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

Call your insurance company and find out. You would make a claim like any other (they may at least cover some medication or physical therapy). Call the doctor's office as well. They might tell you more.

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myloginacc

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Posts: 406

Joined: May 2018

Posted on Aug 3, 2018, 3:21 pm

#26

Quote from: naimah99 on August 01, 2018, 07:58:36 PMHello @myloginacc ,

Thank you for your comment. I do agree that Paley, Rozbruch, and maybe even Mahboubian are really safe and great options. It would mean a lot of you could recommend a few other members as you said in your comment. I'm really weighing in my options here and saving up to do this and I want to avoid any disastrous mistakes that will cost me my mobility for the rest of my life. Also what do you think about my lengthening goals? 8cm in femurs and 8cm in the tibias? A few members have commented or told me that this is super unrealistic in proportion to my torso, arms, and overall frame. Thanks again, much love!

Firstly, I'd recommend to keep saving and not have this surgery for at least 2 years, even if you manage to get the money before that date. We need to see how Stryde patients will fare, in my opinion. Among other things.

Regarding your goals: I do think the numbers are too high. Anything 20% and over of your initial bone length is considered very risky. Anything over 10% is not recommended if safety is the primary concern - according to what I've read, at least. I also think you have to give up on tibias, if you're only considering internals. LATN and LON on the tibias (which involve internal nailing) are significantly associated with permanent knee pain.

However, Paley only does cosmetic lengthening of the tibia and fibula through the internal method, using his nails - which I find rather odd considering he's the most experienced CLL surgeon, and studies have empirically shown a correlation strongly implying causation in the case of the internal nailing of the tibial bones and permanent knee pain. If you can only see yourself lengthening tibias internally, I'd suggest you e-mail Paley and ask why he chooses to do internal over external for the tibias. Here's his thread, with his current e-mail listed in the page linked.

As a side note, I personally expected you to look very stocky given the height listed in your thread. In the video you linked, you actually look don't look chubby at all - you look well-proportioned for your height.

At the end of the day, though, I understand this decision is only about you, how you see yourself, and how you interact with the world. I'm personally in the camp that actively opposes any form of encouragement for taller men to get this surgery over any other possible methods to alleviate their psychological pain first and foremost, and the camp that thinks short women need to weigh the risks and benefits of this surgery even more than short men do. Women tend to have thinner bones, which can be a problem for/during intramedullary nailing and the nails' eventual removal. The problem can be exacerbated in shorter women with even thinner bones. Still, even in light of all I've just said, I'm not opposed to tall men getting the surgery at all. Or that only some women should get this surgery, while others should not. I just want people to get the best benefits to health complications rate they can get. If you were to ask me, I'd say you look just fine like you currently are. However, like I mentioned, I also understand this is only about how you see yourself and your own, personal life.

Edit Post

Quote from: naimah99 on August 01, 2018, 07:58:36 PMHello @myloginacc ,

Thank you for your comment. I do agree that Paley, Rozbruch, and maybe even Mahboubian are really safe and great options. It would mean a lot of you could recommend a few other members as you said in your comment. I'm really weighing in my options here and saving up to do this and I want to avoid any disastrous mistakes that will cost me my mobility for the rest of my life. Also what do you think about my lengthening goals? 8cm in femurs and 8cm in the tibias? A few members have commented or told me that this is super unrealistic in proportion to my torso, arms, and overall frame. Thanks again, much love!

Firstly, I'd recommend to keep saving and not have this surgery for at least 2 years, even if you manage to get the money before that date. We need to see how Stryde patients will fare, in my opinion. Among other things.

Regarding your goals: I do think the numbers are too high. Anything 20% and over of your initial bone length is considered very risky. Anything over 10% is not recommended if safety is the primary concern - according to what I've read, at least. I also think you have to give up on tibias, if you're only considering internals. LATN and LON on the tibias (which involve internal nailing) are significantly associated with permanent knee pain.

However, Paley only does cosmetic lengthening of the tibia and fibula through the internal method, using his nails - which I find rather odd considering he's the most experienced CLL surgeon, and studies have empirically shown a correlation strongly implying causation in the case of the internal nailing of the tibial bones and permanent knee pain. If you can only see yourself lengthening tibias internally, I'd suggest you e-mail Paley and ask why he chooses to do internal over external for the tibias. Here's his thread, with his current e-mail listed in the page linked.

As a side note, I personally expected you to look very stocky given the height listed in your thread. In the video you linked, you actually look don't look chubby at all - you look well-proportioned for your height.

At the end of the day, though, I understand this decision is only about you, how you see yourself, and how you interact with the world. I'm personally in the camp that actively opposes any form of encouragement for taller men to get this surgery over any other possible methods to alleviate their psychological pain first and foremost, and the camp that thinks short women need to weigh the risks and benefits of this surgery even more than short men do. Women tend to have thinner bones, which can be a problem for/during intramedullary nailing and the nails' eventual removal. The problem can be exacerbated in shorter women with even thinner bones. Still, even in light of all I've just said, I'm not opposed to tall men getting the surgery at all. Or that only some women should get this surgery, while others should not. I just want people to get the best benefits to health complications rate they can get. If you were to ask me, I'd say you look just fine like you currently are. However, like I mentioned, I also understand this is only about how you see yourself and your own, personal life.

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naimah99

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Posts: 300

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 4, 2018, 4:17 pm

#27

Quote from: montahn on July 30, 2018, 05:17:52 PMYou can try Dr Amar Sarin from India.

here is good thread about LL with Dr Sharin - http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=8944

Hello @montahn ,

Thank you for the advice I'll definitely check this link out and Dr. Amar. From what I've read it seems like it's better to get this surgery in your same country or find a well experienced doctor like Dr. Paley. I know he's expensive but I am hoping to make enough money to be able to afford him or Dr. Mahboubian. In India I think that this procedure is very common and there are good surgeons everywhere, but for me I think it would be a bit tough to be able to handle the language barrier and not understand the doctors very well. Again, as of right now Dr. Paley is unrealistic for me and I will try to afford him as I find a way to make that kind of money. Therefore, I appreciate your suggestions. I'll give them look! Thank you!

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naimah99

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Posts: 476

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 4, 2018, 4:25 pm

#28

Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 31, 2018, 10:26:25 PMHow is your credit history? If your credit is good you could try taking out a medical loan with your bank. I took one out for $15,000 to cover extra expenses and despite not having that high of an income I was approved because my score was good. I looked into loans for cosmetic surgeries before, but all the ones I could find would not give loans for surgeries performed outside the USA.

I think you could benefit from CLL since you've spent so many years thinking about this. Could allow you to move on and focus on your talents.

How important is the issue of scarring for you? If you're not put off by having some scars on your legs that look like dots/bites, then going with the LON or external methods will allow you to at least gain 2 inches on your tibiae much sooner, and who knows, you may find that you feel much better at 4'10 and not want to go through femur lengthening.

My surgeon offers internal and LON/externals for lengthening. He's in Mumbai, India where vegan options are available easily and hotels are quite comfortable.

https://sites.google.com/site/cllrpatients/faqs/cosmeticlengthening

You could also look into Dr Solomin and Dr Kulesh in St Petersburg, though I'm not sure they offer internal methods.

Best of luck to you.

Hello @KiloKHAN ,

Thank you for your input. I agree with what you said that maybe since I've been wanting this, after getting it I will be able to move on to other areas of my life and pursue my talents fully. I want to gain the same amount of height on both segments but I've heard this is not very realistic. I want 3 inches in the femur and 3 in the tibias but from speaking to people on this forum and doing some research, it is not recommended to go more than 5cm on your tibias. But I think it all depends on what the doctor advices for each individual because we're all different.

Thank you for letting me know that there's vegan options lol that's very important to me zas I am a raw vegan and eat lots of fruits and veggies! Once again, thank you and I'll check out the website you sent. Much love!

Edit Post

Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 31, 2018, 10:26:25 PMHow is your credit history? If your credit is good you could try taking out a medical loan with your bank. I took one out for $15,000 to cover extra expenses and despite not having that high of an income I was approved because my score was good. I looked into loans for cosmetic surgeries before, but all the ones I could find would not give loans for surgeries performed outside the USA.

I think you could benefit from CLL since you've spent so many years thinking about this. Could allow you to move on and focus on your talents.

How important is the issue of scarring for you? If you're not put off by having some scars on your legs that look like dots/bites, then going with the LON or external methods will allow you to at least gain 2 inches on your tibiae much sooner, and who knows, you may find that you feel much better at 4'10 and not want to go through femur lengthening.

My surgeon offers internal and LON/externals for lengthening. He's in Mumbai, India where vegan options are available easily and hotels are quite comfortable.

https://sites.google.com/site/cllrpatients/faqs/cosmeticlengthening

You could also look into Dr Solomin and Dr Kulesh in St Petersburg, though I'm not sure they offer internal methods.

Best of luck to you.

Hello @KiloKHAN ,

Thank you for your input. I agree with what you said that maybe since I've been wanting this, after getting it I will be able to move on to other areas of my life and pursue my talents fully. I want to gain the same amount of height on both segments but I've heard this is not very realistic. I want 3 inches in the femur and 3 in the tibias but from speaking to people on this forum and doing some research, it is not recommended to go more than 5cm on your tibias. But I think it all depends on what the doctor advices for each individual because we're all different.

Thank you for letting me know that there's vegan options lol that's very important to me zas I am a raw vegan and eat lots of fruits and veggies! Once again, thank you and I'll check out the website you sent. Much love!

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naimah99

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Posts: 471

Joined: Jul 2018

Posted on Aug 4, 2018, 4:28 pm

#29

Quote from: Purushrottam on August 03, 2018, 02:30:19 AMMy surgery was good. I gained 6.5 cm to go from 168.5 cm to 175 cm.

This is my diary detailing my experiences: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

Call your insurance company and find out. You would make a claim like any other (they may at least cover some medication or physical therapy). Call the doctor's office as well. They might tell you more.

Hello @Purushrottam ,

I'll check out your diary for sure, I'm glad you posted about it! And I will try to get some insurance help. As of now I don't have any insurence at all but I'll figure this out. Thanks for he idea!

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