How to destory 'LL arms race'

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on January 27, 2022, 08:39:01 PMPaley never had a death , just giotikas and guichet with a 13 mm thick albizza nail .
Giotikas is no one in this field and had several misalignments while guichet was a famous doctor but turned out not to be a  good one .
I read that sarin was very popular in old forum , this does not make him automatically a good choiche ( making an example that "famous" does not equal good) .

Crippled people ,as I said, were all with BAD doctors in bad countries (as far as I know/its reported here) .
Complications and underperformance can be a thing but it's up to age /amount of lengthening and so on .
A healthy 20 to 30 yo person with <6cm femur and <5 cm tibia , will hardly have bad outcomes with a good doctor .
Things can happen because its life , but this was my point .
People still to this day go to betz ( who is 70yo +) and do 10cm ..is it that LL it's not safe or that they are stupid ?

By no mean go and do it for bo reason , but I believe that if u follow those steps , you will eventually trade some athletic ability but you will be x10 times happier which to me , it's worth the trade .
Basketball players will have later in life joints problems ,same with soccer players of NFL players who had brain problems etc.
There is always a trade off in this life ,but if you do it for the right reasons , that trade off might be very worth it .

Ok, you just can't get out of some dogmatic wishful thinking. It's a pitty because you won't learn or contribute much here if you stick too much to that.
Yes, there were crippled persons with top doctors, for example "Unicorn" with Dr. Guichet (altough some people prefer to blame her).
Yes there was at least a death with Dr. Paley (thrombosis).
And 99% of LLers I suppose don't use this forum to know more about.
It seems to me you're imprisoned in wishful thinking. It's simply not true unfortunately that those 20/30 old with 6 cm extension in both segments are almost always ok. And just to remind, I will probably do LL. It's true that we can minimise risks to a certain extent (eg an experienced and ethical doctor) and you are right that there are tradeoffs and some of us may be happier being taller albeit with lower performance, so we should be more realistic to be able to plan ideally our LL process and to be tottally prepared for the possible outcomes.

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on January 27, 2022, 08:39:01 PMPaley never had a death , just giotikas and guichet with a 13 mm thick albizza nail .
Giotikas is no one in this field and had several misalignments while guichet was a famous doctor but turned out not to be a  good one .
I read that sarin was very popular in old forum , this does not make him automatically a good choiche ( making an example that "famous" does not equal good) .

Crippled people ,as I said, were all with BAD doctors in bad countries (as far as I know/its reported here) .
Complications and underperformance can be a thing but it's up to age /amount of lengthening and so on .
A healthy 20 to 30 yo person with <6cm femur and <5 cm tibia , will hardly have bad outcomes with a good doctor .
Things can happen because its life , but this was my point .
People still to this day go to betz ( who is 70yo +) and do 10cm ..is it that LL it's not safe or that they are stupid ?

By no mean go and do it for bo reason , but I believe that if u follow those steps , you will eventually trade some athletic ability but you will be x10 times happier which to me , it's worth the trade .
Basketball players will have later in life joints problems ,same with soccer players of NFL players who had brain problems etc.
There is always a trade off in this life ,but if you do it for the right reasons , that trade off might be very worth it .

Ok, you just can't get out of some dogmatic wishful thinking. It's a pitty because you won't learn or contribute much here if you stick too much to that.
Yes, there were crippled persons with top doctors, for example "Unicorn" with Dr. Guichet (altough some people prefer to blame her).
Yes there was at least a death with Dr. Paley (thrombosis).
And 99% of LLers I suppose don't use this forum to know more about.
It seems to me you're imprisoned in wishful thinking. It's simply not true unfortunately that those 20/30 old with 6 cm extension in both segments are almost always ok. And just to remind, I will probably do LL. It's true that we can minimise risks to a certain extent (eg an experienced and ethical doctor) and you are right that there are tradeoffs and some of us may be happier being taller albeit with lower performance, so we should be more realistic to be able to plan ideally our LL process and to be tottally prepared for the possible outcomes.

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Quote from: zaozari on January 27, 2022, 09:22:52 PMOk, you just can't get out of some dogmatic wishful thinking. It's a pitty because you won't learn or contribute much here if you stick too much to that.
Yes, there were crippled persons with top doctors, for example "Unicorn" with Dr. Guichet (altough some people prefer to blame her).
Yes there was at least a death with Dr. Paley (thrombosis).
And 99% of LLers I suppose don't use this forum to know more about.
It seems to me you're imprisoned in wishful thinking. It's simply not true unfortunately that those 20/30 old with 6 cm extension in both segments are almost always ok. And just to remind, I will probably do LL. It's true that we can minimise risks to a certain extent (eg an experienced and ethical doctor) and you are right that there are tradeoffs and some of us may be happier being taller albeit with lower performance, so we should be more realistic to be able to plan ideally our LL process and to be tottally prepared for the possible outcomes.

The problem with you rigt now is that you are not even Reading my texts but just going on your own .
Paley had NO death reported ,what are you talking about?

I already talked about guichet n there have been MANY mistakes there ;AGAIN,guichet was a famous doctor not a good one , just like sarin .

There is no wishful thinking because I m years in ,and probably will never be ok with this surgery .
I will do it , but will never dive into it happy and glad I'm breaking my legs because I'm fearless .
You saying yes or no to my statments but yet have to see a bad outcome from a person that followed the steps I mentioned before ; if you can link a diary or something I would be intrested to read .

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Yes it's true I may have not a global view of your posts, I was some time away from the forum and only now was revieweing some of it and seeing your important contributions.
But you seem too radical sometimes when not minimising risks or not accepting some facts.
I keep insisting there was at least one death with Paley,  altough I cannot rerence it here right now. And on the other hand, Guichet, together with him, is one of the most experienced and better surgeons in the world. I know that none of them report any serious complications or deaths ever, but it isn't even logical after decades of practice and complex surgeries.
If I misunderstood something else, I'm sorry.

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on January 28, 2022, 07:19:14 AMThe problem with you rigt now is that you are not even Reading my texts but just going on your own .
Paley had NO death reported ,what are you talking about?

I already talked about guichet n there have been MANY mistakes there ;AGAIN,guichet was a famous doctor not a good one , just like sarin .

There is no wishful thinking because I m years in ,and probably will never be ok with this surgery .
I will do it , but will never dive into it happy and glad I'm breaking my legs because I'm fearless .
You saying yes or no to my statments but yet have to see a bad outcome from a person that followed the steps I mentioned before ; if you can link a diary or something I would be intrested to read .

I am furthermore totally with you and your realism, your natural perspective of it and "fear" in period 3....

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Quote from: zaozari on January 28, 2022, 05:09:38 PMYes it's true I may have not a global view of your posts, I was some time away from the forum and only now was revieweing some of it and seeing your important contributions.
But you seem too radical sometimes when not minimising risks or not accepting some facts.
I keep insisting there was at least one death with Paley,  altough I cannot rerence it here right now. And on the other hand, Guichet, together with him, is one of the most experienced and better surgeons in the world. I know that none of them report any serious complications or deaths ever, but it isn't even logical after decades of practice and complex surgeries.
If I misunderstood something else, I'm sorry.

I respect your opinion and I think we displayed each other position enough .

The only thing I would like to correct is that Paley has the biggest CLL center in the world and no death reported or patients/familiar who claimed such an outcome .
It is always full of CLL patients there so a death would never go unnoticed at such an institute !
U might be mistaking it with giotikas because I never ever heard of this .
I read a topic of a person complaining for Paley s service back in the 90s and kept trash talking him .
He might have made a bad decision and this is not a good thing ..but he is human and it wasn't a cosmetic case .
I invite you to rethink your position on Paley because it's never been a thing on those forums that Paley had a death
and it is written in his online page very clearly  and no one ever contradicted that .
This is also why we compare him to other doctors because he had tons of cases and no deaths/serious complications like crippled people etc while others with less loads and years they happened to have poor outcomes .
This underlines that bad luck can be a thing but it's a lot about surgical skills and proper follow ups .

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Quote from: zaozari on January 28, 2022, 05:09:38 PMYes it's true I may have not a global view of your posts, I was some time away from the forum and only now was revieweing some of it and seeing your important contributions.
But you seem too radical sometimes when not minimising risks or not accepting some facts.
I keep insisting there was at least one death with Paley,  altough I cannot rerence it here right now. And on the other hand, Guichet, together with him, is one of the most experienced and better surgeons in the world. I know that none of them report any serious complications or deaths ever, but it isn't even logical after decades of practice and complex surgeries.
If I misunderstood something else, I'm sorry.

Speaking of death if you can recall one guy that back then you had much hatreds of cuz he addressed thaat having Parkinson or Leukemia is better than being short then I'd tell you that guy is me and rn I am still stuck with this kind of thought and I think if there were 2 options death or living an under 5'5 life then I'd choose the former so death is not a problem for me at all.
Dunno since you can't prove yourself with a death case under Paley's hands why you are spouting Paley's caused at least 1 death case cuz Paley is just the surgeon what I am aiming for so I cannot let go of your unlogical statements sorry.

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Quote from: Masteryourlife on January 28, 2022, 08:31:29 PMI respect your opinion and I think we displayed each other position enough .

The only thing I would like to correct is that Paley has the biggest CLL center in the world and no death reported or patients/familiar who claimed such an outcome .
It is always full of CLL patients there so a death would never go unnoticed at such an institute !
U might be mistaking it with giotikas because I never ever heard of this .
I read a topic of a person complaining for Paley s service back in the 90s and kept trash talking him .
He might have made a bad decision and this is not a good thing ..but he is human and it wasn't a cosmetic case .
I invite you to rethink your position on Paley because it's never been a thing on those forums that Paley had a death
and it is written in his online page very clearly  and no one ever contradicted that .
This is also why we compare him to other doctors because he had tons of cases and no deaths/serious complications like crippled people etc while others with less loads and years they happened to have poor outcomes .
This underlines that bad luck can be a thing but it's a lot about surgical skills and proper follow ups .

No need to dispute over an unfalsifiable case if you 2 don't mind me to say like that but if it would be death then I would accept if it would be disability then I couldn' although I still think being disabled is better than being short. Just don't wanna become disabled with my money and that is the reason why I don't hesitate to do LL not like common ppl. But you got it right and surgery outcomes comprise lucks, caregiving, skills and etc., instead of just either one of them.
BTW I am fixated on Paley's Option 3 and I was glad to have seen there are some cases of Option 3 on this website so I see hopes in my life rn.

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Most of tall people won't get this procedure done, so that problem will not exist.

Let people be free, if a tall person wants to be even taller, we should accept it.

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Quote from: Polvorón on January 28, 2022, 11:43:28 PMMost of tall people won't get this procedure done, so that problem will not exist.

Let people be free, if a tall person wants to be even taller, we should accept it.

I changed my thoughts and I confess my stupidities. I think it should be covered by medical insurance just for short patients and the shorter patients are the more the prices must be covered.