i think ive lost my height neurosis

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Here's my post I made about Vitruvius mainly: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2638.0

Putting aesthetically pleasing proportions aside for this one, as we are focused on functionality, vitruvius has done quite well for himself. If you want more information just search his own thread in the old forum under the Paley Patient diaries.

DIFM and Programdude haven't done so yet but there would be no reason for them to lie about it.

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Quote from: Alu on October 05, 2015, 11:52:27 PMYou're wrong again. It's all about perspective. Monetary and dating benefits aside, going from one height to a taller one can be vastly empowering. Sure, let's not get it twisted he's only 5'2, and I feel for the guy, but you seriously don't think going from his original height to a vastly improved 5'2 wasn't worth it? Like really?! It makes me laugh at you for thinking so narrowly and cynically. We all have different goals and views on life; don't apply your own views to others that might not give a f*ck about those views.

Money and dating aside? Where's the proof that lengthening improves either? Some guys are going into credit card debt @ god knows what interest rate to pay for this. They probably aren't working throughout recovery. Financially it's a disastrous decision. And I think the dating benefits are imagined.

If it's about perspective - its an extremely expensive, irreversible, painful, risky, time consuming way to change your perspective. A few months in Asia with a couple of grand would probably be a better choice.

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Quote from: Alu on October 05, 2015, 11:55:10 PMHere's my post I made about Vitruvius mainly: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2638.0

Putting aesthetically pleasing proportions aside for this one, as we are focused on functionality, vitruvius has done quite well for himself. If you want more information just search his own thread in the old forum under the Paley Patient diaries.

DIFM and Programdude haven't done so yet but there would be no reason for them to lie about it.

He looks OK!

But leg pressing 4 plates - he's about as strong as my girlfriend. To be fair though perhaps he will be able to gain a lot more strength over time - but that remains to be seen. Will his legs hold up?

And the jogging - what we don't see is how long he can go for without pain. A lot of diaries mention that running for over a few minutes is problematic. Sprinting? Forget about it. And he's now seriously pigeon toed - his gait did not look natural at all.

If having the strength of a woman and being able to awkwardly jog is considered a poster boy result for LL, I don't know what else to say. I don't think you are thinking clearly if you do this. Just my opinion.

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Then why are you even here to begin with? I must ask.
 
Let's face it this surgery isn't about fixing our bodies or brains, it's to make it easier for us to cope with our lives. It is all those things you mentioned and possibly more, but so it's much worse going through life feeling like you're worthless because of something you're objectionably are, and will forever be. That's why people turn to this surgery because it is an empowering procedure. Also it's not like anyone who considers this is a high-level athlete who will return to high-intensity training. It really is about perspective. Which is why I'm not judging (as much) Descreteuser for deciding to through with it; even though I found his tone towards Penguin to be incredibly arrogant, insolent, and slightly twisted. (Seriously dude wtf)

The people who've fallen into debt have no other person to blame for then themselves, (even though I've not heard much about this going on), because they weren't smart enough to manage their time and money. Sorry but it's true.

Lastly, that video that I showed you was taken a year ago when he still had the PRECISE rods in place (1 year after his quadrilateral procedure in 2013), and from my more recent contact with him he's getting ready to participate in a marathon of sorts— one that he feels confident in.

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Quote from: Alu on October 06, 2015, 12:19:10 AMThen why are you even here to begin with? I must ask.
 
Let's face it this surgery isn't about fixing our bodies or brains, it's to make it easier for us to cope with our lives. It is all those things you mentioned and possibly more, but so it's much worse going through life feeling like you're worthless because of something you're objectionably are, and will forever be. That's why people turn to this surgery because it is an empowering procedure. Also it's not like anyone who considers this is a high-level athlete who will return to high-intensity training. It really is about perspective. Which is why I'm not judging (as much) Descreteuser for deciding to through with it; even though I found his tone towards Penguin to be incredibly arrogant, insolent, and slightly twisted. (Seriously dude wtf)

The people who've fallen into debt have no other person to blame for then themselves, (even though I've not heard much about this going on), because they weren't smart enough to manage their time and money. Sorry but it's true.

Lastly, that video that I showed you was taken a year ago when he still had the PRECISE rods in place (1 year after his quadrilateral procedure in 2013), and from my more recent contact with him he's getting ready to participate in a marathon of sorts— one that he feels confident in.

I found this site by chance & ended up lurking a lot, reading the diaries. I completely disagree that it's empowering in any way, but I'll leave it at that. I do appreciate that heightism exists - but I think the risk/reward, cost/benefit ratio of LL is way, way *way* off. All that time, money, pain and permanently diminished ability just for a few inches. A few inches which will likely have next to no change re: your experience of heightism.

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See it is about perspective. All those things you said, all perspective based.   

We are all crazy, but at least most of us are informed about what we are getting ourselves into; which is why I was getting rather irritated at you for being slightly misinformed. (For example, some LL don't have problems with sprinting at all but with endurance.) I can fully admit to cherry picking my evidence against you, I mean I was using patients of the best doctor LL has to disprove your points, so that goes to show how important the doctor you chose is. But it also goes to show how nuanced lengthening is and how important it is to lengthen safe amounts (ex: 8cm in femurs seems to be good, but would proportionally limit you from going any further in your tibia: 5 CM in tibia or femurs is very much on the safe side for recovery and further lengthening.)

All in all, I can safety end by simply saying this; I'm crazy, everyone here is crazy, but it's our bodies and we're not really hurting anyone in society by undergoing this surgery, so why shouldn't we do what we want to our bodies if we are fully informed about what we are doing?

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Quote from: Descreteuser on October 05, 2015, 09:51:17 PMi dont care where he's from.. if he's gonna say its not worth going from average to tall, why should it be worth going from very short to short? Every single person on this site has an internal problem, whether they like to admit it or not.. Generally the really short guys seem to get very frustrated at us taller guys as if we have no right to be here.. e are all crazy for even considering this, the difference is i admit im crazy, alot of guys on here dont.. think that they dont have any internal problems, and that they are doing this cause they have tow.. no one on here HAS to do this..

I think you post is pretty accurate. It is scary that most members on this forum can't admit, see, or acknowledge that they are a bit crazy.

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Quote from: Alu on October 06, 2015, 12:43:25 AMSee it is about perspective. All those things you said, all perspective based.   

We are all crazy, but at least most of us are informed about what we are getting ourselves into; which is why I was getting rather irritated at you for being slightly misinformed. (For example, some LL don't have problems with sprinting at all but with endurance.) I can fully admit to cherry picking my evidence against you, I mean I was using patients of the best doctor LL has to disprove your points, so that goes to show how important the doctor you chose is. But it also goes to show how nuanced lengthening is and how important it is to lengthen safe amounts (ex: 8cm in femurs seems to be good, but would proportionally limit you from going any further in your tibia: 5 CM in tibia or femurs is very much on the safe side for recovery and further lengthening.)

All in all, I can safety end by simply saying this; I'm crazy, everyone here is crazy, but it's our bodies and we're not really hurting anyone in society by undergoing this surgery, so why shouldn't we do what we want to our bodies if we are fully informed about what we are doing?

Sure. But there are people out there who are convinced that they'd be happier without, for example, one of their legs. They want to be disabled and lose one of their limbs. That's their perspective - it's valid, but it's still insane.

The fact that heightism exists, and the fact you're "only" breaking both your legs makes LL little less extreme and more logical, but not by much - because a few inches isn't going to have a significant affect re: heightism, and it's major, debilitating surgery. The arguments in favour of it are rationalisations from, in my opinion people that are probably feeling very desperate and want badly for LL to be an answer to their problems.

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My absolute final word about it would be two things, read about other people's perspectives about what it's like being taller then before, such as Vitruvius (on the old forum), Doingitforme, RGKEY.

And secondly do what I did for a week; wear lifts to a desired height, in my case that was 8-10 cm. I felt much more confident around people as I felt more average and confident about myself as I moved around my city. Sure there were times where I felt shorter compared to those who were 5'10+ but I was so okay with that. But, once my experiment was over, and I went back to my normal height, all that diminished. I'm now crazy as I want to make that feeling permanent, but I'm fully aware of the trails and tribulations I will face and I know what's best for my body.   

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Quote from: Thatdude950 on October 06, 2015, 12:12:43 AMHe looks OK!

But leg pressing 4 plates - he's about as strong as my girlfriend. To be fair though perhaps he will be able to gain a lot more strength over time - but that remains to be seen. Will his legs hold up?

And the jogging - what we don't see is how long he can go for without pain. A lot of diaries mention that running for over a few minutes is problematic. Sprinting? Forget about it. And he's now seriously pigeon toed - his gait did not look natural at all.

If having the strength of a woman and being able to awkwardly jog is considered a poster boy result for LL, I don't know what else to say. I don't think you are thinking clearly if you do this. Just my opinion.

That guy is a rather extreme example as he lengthened both segments simultaneously and gained 11CM overall.

He is not, by any means, the posterboy for LL. The most successful example would have to be shyshy who did 7,5CM in one segment and recovered more or less completely. Check out his diary.