Quote from: Humanoid on November 16, 2021, 11:47:00 PMI think it isn't wise to conclude the patien already had a rare underlying condition after s*** happened. A good surgeron with a good protocol should had performed comprehensive pre op tests so that the patient wouldn't qualify for the surgery.
+100
Unless the tests are super expensive and the condition is incredibly rare.
It's a good thing to hear that the doctor is not changing his blood thinner protocol. That proves that there was some rare situation at play here. It would be easy for the doctor to just prescribe blood thinners at this point to all patients like Paley does. But if he is not changing it then it must mean he has really thought this through and decided.
Quote from: indication on November 17, 2021, 08:49:43 AMIt's a good thing to hear that the doctor is not changing his blood thinner protocol. That proves that there was some rare situation at play here. It would be easy for the doctor to just prescribe blood thinners at this point to all patients like Paley does. But if he is not changing it then it must mean he has really thought this through and decided.
Doctor changing his protocol means admission for doing something wrong he is just trying to cover his back legally. If he had a medical condition why doc didn't test for it.
As someone else mentioned, there would be little need to change his protocol or do more pre-op tests if the condition is incredibly rare (if indeed true).
I was very friendly with the guy. He did not have any rare conditions. From a legal point of view, Dr changing protocol would mean admission that something could have been done to prevent the issue from happening, so no way they change protocol. I find amusing how people quickly try to rationalize what happened trying to find a "rare condition" on this guy, in order to think this tragedy could not happen to themselves. Guess what? This patient had no conditions, had done his research for years (he was a member in the forum), was disciplined and smart and worked hard. So yeah, this could have happened to any of us. There can be a discussion regarding the need of Xarelto, the fact that he did fasting for years (but everyone here knew about that, it was no secret), the incredibly bad luck he had... but it's just dumb to say he had rare conditions when he had none.
Quote from: V21 on November 17, 2021, 10:33:56 AMI was very friendly with the guy. He did not have any rare conditions. From a legal point of view, Dr changing protocol would mean admission that something could have been done to prevent the issue from happening, so no way they change protocol. I find amusing how people quickly try to rationalize what happened trying to find a "rare condition" on this guy, in order to think this tragedy could not happen to themselves. Guess what? This patient had no conditions, had done his research for years (he was a member in the forum), was disciplined and smart and worked hard. So yeah, this could have happened to any of us. There can be a discussion regarding the need of Xarelto, the fact that he did fasting for years (but everyone here knew about that, it was no secret), the incredibly bad luck he had... but it's just dumb to say he had rare conditions when he had none.
Then why in the world you don't spam this story ?
Xeralto and diet are not "details" in this process .
Same thing hapoened to Guichet about blood thinners with the indian guy and a huge story was built on (thankfully).
The guy was a normal guy as any other.
The fact we have to learn to look at xrays,to remind doctors ITB realease ,blood thinners and so in ,its really sad.
IT SHOULD NOT BE OUR DUTY to check those things after the insane amount payed .
Therefore several weeks after the procedure , i don t see how this could be patient fault only.
If he had a condition , doctor fault !
If he didn't take xeralto ,chances are doctor didn't prescribe them longer since he was a member of the forum and knew how important it is!
If he dieted or fasted...I find it hard to believe that some deficit in vitamins and nutrients are what causes this ; it can lead to delayed consolidation or things like that but death ? Wow...
Idk , I am not a former patient neither I am a doctor but stay away from those "cheap" alternatives doctors operating in those weird countries. Period !
Can't stress enough with this !
This guy dreamed LIKE ALL OF US!
Please stay safe and stick to the bests in 1 st world country .
Quote from: Masteryourlife on November 17, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
If he dieted or fasted...I find it hard to believe that some deficit in vitamins and nutrients are what causes this ; it can lead to delayed consolidation or things like that but death ? Wow...
Idk , I am not a former patient neither I am a doctor but stay away from those "cheap" alternatives doctors operating in those weird countries. Period !
Can't stress enough with this !
This guy dreamed LIKE ALL OF US!
Please stay safe and stick to the bests in 1 st world country .
Oh, you must be one of those "God bless America" kind of guys!
Well, if you wanna talk about risks and regulation take a look at how great the All-American Stryde was; it gloriously failed and withdrawn within less than two years (!!) from its introduction; Let me remind you that it was European and UK doctors and the UK Authorities who first red flagged the problems of Stryde, when the US doctors and FDA were just doing“ business as usual”. Or, see all these public litigations and reviews against Paley that @LU213 shared earlier; he would probably have lost his licence for at least a couple of years if he was in the UK or most countries in the EU.
Better stop this “1st world country” moto of yours because ,imo, there are good and bad professionals and adequate public regulation on both sides of the pond.
Finally, if you take the time to google “fasting and thrombosis risk” you will find many studies about blood clots, strokes, fasting etc. (This by the way could serve as a useful piece of advice to our Muslim bros here doing LL during the Ramadan period).
Quote from: Arcon on November 17, 2021, 12:32:48 PMOh, you must be one of those "God bless America" kind of guys!
Well, if you wanna talk about risks and regulation take a look at how great the All-American Stryde was; it gloriously failed and withdrawn within less than two years (!!) from its introduction; Let me remind you that it was European and UK doctors and the UK Authorities who first red flagged the problems of Stryde, when the US doctors and FDA were just doing“ business as usual”. Or, see all these public litigations and reviews against Paley that @LU213 shared earlier; he would probably have lost his licence for at least a couple of years if he was in the UK or most countries in the EU.
Better stop this “1st world country” moto of yours because ,imo, there are good and bad professionals and adequate public regulation on both sides of the pond.
Finally, if you take the time to google “fasting and thrombosis risk” you will find many studies about blood clots, strokes, fasting etc. (This by the way could serve as a useful piece of advice to our Muslim bros here doing LL during the Ramadan period).
You clearly didn't read carefully my previous posts .
I am not an "God bless America" person because I am not even from Us/neither I live there/ plan to do the surgery there .
Europe has regulations but do not have experienced doctors (at least that do CLL) , like other places ,like US.
On top of that the medical system is public therefore its safer for emergencies but good luck for things like CLL .
ON TOP OF THAT , I always said that if I have to go trought this I will pick dr.Lee also because he pointed out the s**** about Stryde early on when he had his first cases and he didn't operate with the nail as soon as that came out .
So I am not about America ; Paley also said that for him stryde would be still out and he would have let ppl decide if to go with it or not "with a disclaimer".
as I also said , I can't see the posts about Paley because that website is not available in my country so I don't know what is in there but hands down he is the most experienced surgeon so instead of thinking that he fails so others are allowed to fail too ,think that his volumes is insanely higher then "new" cll doctors popping out so complications when you do thousands of LLS can arise unfortunately.
ALSO if that happens with Paley or other "1st world surgeons" ,can you imagine what happens in other places ?
I don't know where are you from but I already put it out there that I perfectly know how things runs in country like Turkey,Greece and u name it !
So what I am saying is not " you are 100% safe in us" but that you are way more unsafe somewhere else and that the 10 k or 20 k less ,does not worth the % of risk increased when you decide to go in bad hospitals with barely unknown doctors .
That was my point !
You can agree or not agree but mine it's just logic, I have no interest in putting down a more affordable surgeon because it would benefit me as well , but stop trying to convince yourself (talking in general) that a cheap version can equal the skills/care/knowledge of an expensive version .
Costa are dictated by doctors name and experience but also from the anesthesia machine they us , the anesthesiologist hired , the pt hired ,the nurses hired and so on .
With such a delicate procedure I can't see how someone can go in bad hospitals with unknown doctors in poor countries like Greece where money is everything.
My point of view tho , maybe I am wrong idk but that's what I think .
Quote from: Arcon on November 17, 2021, 12:32:48 PMFinally, if you take the time to google “fasting and thrombosis risk” you will find many studies about blood clots, strokes, fasting etc. (This by the way could serve as a useful piece of advice to our Muslim bros here doing LL during the Ramadan period).
Ramadhan 2021 wasn’t in October/November, the day tragedy happened, it was in April/May
Quote from: Humanoid on November 17, 2021, 12:55:31 PMRamadhan 2021 wasn’t in October/November, the day tragedy happened, it was in April/May
My comment about Ramadan was a more general note about long fasting... I didn't mean that the patient in Greece was fasting because of Ramadan.
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