2021 Surgery of Femur Greece GNail Giotikas

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谁有证据证明这件事情呢，我只看到了讨论，到没有新闻或者官方声明，虽然通过讨论感觉是真的。

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I find it tiring how a lot of people here try to justify all bad outcomes with "rare conditions" or "bad doctors"... this is a high-risk surgery, even when doing everything correctly there is a TRUE chance you may die. You have to make peace with it...

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I want to just confirm for the record that our friend  was not Muslim. I do agree that Arcon's comment was just a general warning statement to people who fast for religious reasons and did not imply our deceased friend was Muslim.   Our friend had pain in his right leg that he found strange and he often voiced concerns about it. These concerns were trivialized by the medical personnel other than the doctor (we were never present when he was with the dr).  I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but their response bothered my parent who would talk to me about how she didn't like how they made light of his weird pain.  He then got a compression sleeve for his right thigh because no one did anything.

Dr. Giotikas told me the patient had rare background factors. I gather from his email that he was talking about the fasting being an unusual/little known risk in thrombosis.  He did not say that our fellow LL patient had rare underlying medical conditions. It is possible that someone misinterpreted that statement by mistake.   

I find it hard to believe that the patient did not inform the doctor of his dietary activities prior to surgery.  Dr Giotikas sent out two emails to the existing patients regarding the tragedy.  Like the rest of us, our fellow LL patient was not taking Xarelto.

Because of what happened to the guy whose sister wrote the story, I was keenly aware of symptoms of DVT and PE (although sometimes there are no symptoms). It was why I would not go alone. I think even though doctors make us sign waivers that we are aware of the risks, since it is a risk, doctors should explain to us the signs and what to do if it happens.  Certainly we should ask prior to the surgery but many are like me,  young and inexperienced.  We think that asking a question is a betrayal of our trust in the doctor but it is NOT. 

If the internet is correct, I searched and most people who get PE do not die and even most people that get the dangerous FE survive.  We have one guy in this forum that got a FE during surgery with Paley that survived.  So it is best to get help at the first minor sign even if it seems  trivial.   Many people die of FE getting the BBL which has been called the riskiest cosmetic procedure. The risk that was just a theory has just become very real.

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Quote from: LU213 on November 18, 2021, 09:44:25 PMI want to just confirm for the record that our friend  was not Muslim. I do agree that Arcon's comment was just a general warning statement to people who fast for religious reasons and did not imply our deceased friend was Muslim.   Our friend had pain in his right leg that he found strange and he often voiced concerns about it. These concerns were trivialized by the medical personnel other than the doctor (we were never present when he was with the dr).  I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but their response bothered my parent who would talk to me about how she didn't like how they made light of his weird pain.  He then got a compression sleeve for his right thigh because no one did anything.

Dr. Giotikas told me the patient had rare background factors. I gather from his email that he was talking about the fasting being an unusual/little known risk in thrombosis.  He did not say that our fellow LL patient had rare underlying medical conditions. It is possible that someone misinterpreted that statement by mistake.   

I find it hard to believe that the patient did not inform the doctor of his dietary activities prior to surgery.  Dr Giotikas sent out two emails to the existing patients regarding the tragedy.  Like the rest of us, our fellow LL patient was not taking Xarelto.

Because of what happened to the guy whose sister wrote the story, I was keenly aware of symptoms of DVT and PE (although sometimes there are no symptoms). It was why I would not go alone. I think even though doctors make us sign waivers that we are aware of the risks, since it is a risk, doctors should explain to us the signs and what to do if it happens.  Certainly we should ask prior to the surgery but many are like me,  young and inexperienced.  We think that asking a question is a betrayal of our trust in the doctor but it is NOT. 

If the internet is correct, I searched and most people who get PE do not die and even most people that get the dangerous FE survive.  We have one guy in this forum that got a FE during surgery with Paley that survived.  So it is best to get help at the first minor sign even if it seems  trivial.   Many people die of FE getting the BBL which has been called the riskiest cosmetic procedure. The risk that was just a theory has just become very real.

And now I would like to know how for someone this is not ,even partially, the surgeons fault ?
Knowing risks is a thing , but they guy in this message explained perfectly what more or less the situation looked like and as he said A) I doubt he didn't inform he was fasting and B) this surgeon popped out just couple years ago and he already had this outcome .
Can someone stop defending surgeons no matter what just because it is a f*****g high risk surgery ?
It is high risk for many factors but it is not high risk for death to the point were couple deaths here and there are ok and need to be accepted .
Wtf is wrong with some of you ?
This surgery takes with it OTHER risks like lose of ROM , athletic ability and so on that makes it risky .
But fractures of any type and LL of any type are performed every year for non cosmetic porpuses and I don't see bodies laying on the streets dead by fractures and LLD as we should given that a small amount of CLL had some bad outcomes , a Big amount of other patients should have bigger numbers right ?!
Like what?
Those risks are involved in any orthopedic surgery but giving xeralto is not a rocket science .
This guy just said that they didn't prescribe it to anyone !!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone can do what they want , idc , but er are all here to achieve our dreams and I would like to cheer with each other one day and maybe meet one of you guys , not to f******* end up reading this things !
He didn't die for something the surgeon could not do ,at least from the report of the guy who IS THERE !
someone please correct me if I am wrong because I really don't get how some ppl think here .

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I haven't yet commented in this matter because, even though I feel very strongly about the situation, I'd rather not present my opinions as fact in a case as serious as this. I do see some misconceptions and outright excuses in this thread, so I can provide these facts:


We all are prescribed Xarelto, but only for around 3 weeks, whereas other doctors like Betz or Paley give you Xarelto during all lenghtening. Giotikas reasoning is that Xarelto can cause serious side effects, and that the chance of clots after 3 weeks is extremely low with full weightbearing. I cannot give an informed opinion on this matter, as my field of expertise is Law, and not Medicine. I do think that, even if the chances are extremely low, I'd rather risk side effects (like liver issues) rather than embolism, and it seems that other doctors think the same. Again, I'm no expert on this matter, and this may have just been a freak accident.


The patient was disciplined, cautious and smart. He did previous research, in fact I met him initially trought this forum. The issue was not at all due to lack of mobilization, as he walked more than any of us. The week he had the embolism he was even walking home from PT, instead of taking taxi.

He had a fasting diet for years, that's true. However, it's a lie that he kept that secret: he was talking about it very often and EVERYONE knew about that. In fact, I personally heard him recommend that diet to one of the PT people. The Dr says he did not allow him to fast, but the patient personally told me that he asked him and was allowed as long as he took enough calories per day. I can't say the Dr is lying, as I never heard the real conversation and I only have the word of the guy, but 100% everyone knew about his fasting diet.

He had extremely bad luck due to the fact that the week before the incident he got the flu. A theory can be that he had COVID (fever, cough, muscle pain),  cause it can cause clots , but he said he did a rapid test and came back negative. The thing is that, due to just having flu, when he started having embolism symptons (cough, chest pain) it seems that he just thought it was flu symptons again. In fact, I have an audio of him 1 hour before the incident, and he told me that he still had some symptons, but he was feeling "back to normal".

He did have thigh pain for weeks prior to the incident, but I don't think it was related, as he was told it was an issue with his IT bands

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This is heartbreaking. How long after his surgery did this happen?

This makes me so afraid.

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Thanks for all the information for those who actually knew him. It sounds like it's just really bad luck.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Assayag also only prescribe Xarelto for the first few weeks?

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Morningstar had the flu too.  He at first thought it was COVID.  I wonder where they caught the flu?  The head nurse wasn't vaccinated. She said she didn't trust the vaccine.

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I'm surprised it's not a requirement to be vaccinated there. Was the patient also vaccinated?

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I think all previous comments sound reasonable, I agree with @V21's post about not presenting opinions as facts because it only adds to the confusion. Imo, the best thing for those who are seriously considering Giotikas is to ask him directly about incidents, protocols, risks etc. For those who have met Giotikas it is common place that he is honest and knowledgeable and very open(not to say blatant!) with risks, problems, difficulties etc, so  I would anticipate to receive some clear answers that make sense.