Quote from: thankscience on November 19, 2021, 05:18:55 AMI'm surprised it's not a requirement to be vaccinated there. Was the patient also vaccinated?
The pacient was not vaccinated, that's why I thought COVID could be a reason, cause it can cause blood clots (happened to my father, mildly). However, both him and Morning Star tested negative, so it seems it was just flu probably.
Another relevant fact: it happened 6-7 weeks after surgery. I think that's the craziest thing here, as far as I know the chances of embolism so long after surgery should be extremely low (with a full weight bearing nail).
Quote from: V21 on November 19, 2021, 08:52:56 AMThe pacient was not vaccinated, that's why I thought COVID could be a reason, cause it can cause blood clots (happened to my father, mildly). However, both him and Morning Star tested negative, so it seems it was just flu probably.
I wonder if the patient had COVID in the past, and was maybe suffering "long COVID" or had some sort of side effect from it.
Quote from: V21 on November 19, 2021, 09:07:38 AMAnother relevant fact: it happened 6-7 weeks after surgery. I think that's the craziest thing here, as far as I know the chances of embolism so long after surgery should be extremely low (with a full weight bearing nail).
This is what is crazy to me too.
As a former betz patient I was prescribed xarelto for the entire length of distraction and betzbone is full weight baring as well. Kinda weird to me that giotikas just leaves xarelto out a few weeks post surgery. Rather be safe than sorry when it comes to blood cloths and stuff. I didn't like taking all these pills either but it was necessary.
What a sad thing.
虽然这个事情已经被确定真实了。但我很想看到官方声明或者报道
I agree with you.
All the medical team is familiar with the patient's diet, medication and lifestyle, both before and during surgery.
But even if this was an exception and the doctor forgot, the chief nurse was with him all day! She knew his diet, did his shopping, saw what he was eating all day! For god's sake!
To me this is very serious, and to anyone who is going to have surgery with Giotikas in Athens I would recommend to look at a external nursing team/PT on their own. At least this way you know who you are hiring, how experienced they are and how they treat you.
Because after this, I honestly would not feel at all comfortable or confident being under the care of the same team that "took care" of this guy.
Quote from: Phoenix21 on November 25, 2021, 05:04:44 PMI agree with you.
All the medical team is familiar with the patient's diet, medication and lifestyle, both before and during surgery.
But even if this was an exception and the doctor forgot, the chief nurse was with him all day! She knew his diet, did his shopping, saw what he was eating all day! For god's sake!
To me this is very serious, and to anyone who is going to have surgery with Giotikas in Athens I would recommend to look at a external nursing team/PT on their own. At least this way you know who you are hiring, how experienced they are and how they treat you.
Because after this, I honestly would not feel at all comfortable or confident being under the care of the same team that "took care" of this guy.
Finally someone who actually says something as well .
We don't know how much but the doctor and the nurses have a relevance in what happened !
Period.
I would not trust the dr and the hospital in general .
Idk about you but I would not feel at all comfortable in a place where someone died .
Now, this is a pretty ignorant comment right here. The chief nurse was with the guy for quite a while and did his shopping and eating habits, but she did the same with many other patients and even with the "late" guy's roommate, all of who are in excellent condition. She and the guy's roommate urged him not to do fasting for obvious reasons such as the need for calories while under such an invasive surgery. But as with anyone he was very confident in his approach and didn't heed the advice. As of now the doctor has changed his approach and has started to prescribe blood thinners to all the patients for a longer time. A 5-minute google search can prove that blood clots with fasting is extremely rare almost improbable. The obvious answer to me would be the blood thinners. Also, the reason the doctor is so confident with his claim of 'fasting' causing clots and not his idiotic approach of not prescribing blood thinners even during the hospital stay (my case) is that he has a massive legal team behind him which in a country such as Greece would bankrupt anyone who would try to litigate him. Don't be fooled. I've seen the doctor's approach regarding this case and I am not a fan of it.
@Masteryourlife People die in the hospital all the time so that really is not a great test of the quality of the hospital. The original hospital (Mediterraneo) which I think was horrible in customer service, in fact had nothing to do with his death. He died in another hospital and it was probably too late by time he got to them. I also bet this local hospital did not have the latest and greatest equipment or medical team. There are probably people who died in each LL program. This one is well known because so many patients were there in Greece at the time and only one of them was bold enough to create this thread.
The chief nurse dressed in tight spandex pants and low cut, short and tight shirts. I prefer to have a skilled nurse that dresses in a professional manner than one that dresses provocatively. I did not find her to be highly skilled in communications and for that reason I would not let her come to my airbnb to help for nothing. She is not the reason the others did well. Maybe they did well in spite of her. All she did is help people click, transport and help with other tasks. I clicked way better without her. However, if the poor guy was sick prior to that date and had pain that he told to the chief nurse and she, chalked it up to the LL surgery, did not tell the doctor or urge a D-dimer test or an ultrasound, then she was negligent. This though I don't know.
I had a blood clot in a small vein in my lower right leg before. Don't know where it came from. It felt weird, like my leg was partially asleep. I noticed the difference in blood flow in the leg. Something wasn't right. I could walk and exercise but it felt worse when I was laying down. Mostly weird feeling but not so much pain. I kept trying to massage it to bring it to life. I researched the internet to try to find out what it could be. You can't see it in an xray. I had to argue with the doctors to get an ultrasound because I had no risk factors. Eventually they gave me an ultrasound. It went away with baby aspirin and B-12. I felt it right away when it was gone. This clot though was not DVT because it was not in a deep vein.
We don't have autopsy results so we don't know if fasting was the cause of the blood clot. Like Jack Hanna said it produces only a minimal increase in the risk. Dr. Giotikas always prescribed blood thinners but only for about 3 weeks. He told me he hasn't decided to prescribe it for the entire lengthening phase. He even sent an official email stating the same. Interesting that @Jack Hanna says he now prescribes it longer. So maybe he has changed since he sent the email.
Many doctors with extensive legal teams have been brought down with a skilled plaintiff's legal team. I for one don't have enough information to blame anyone. We haven't seen the evidence. Sometimes unforeseen occurrences befall us.
Quote from: LU213 on November 25, 2021, 08:19:09 PM@Masteryourlife People die in the hospital all the time so that really is not a great test of the quality of the hospital. The original hospital (Mediterraneo) which I think was horrible in customer service, in fact had nothing to do with his death. He died in another hospital and it was probably too late by time he got to them. I also bet this local hospital did not have the latest and greatest equipment or medical team. There are probably people who died in each LL program. This one is well known because so many patients were there in Greece at the time and only one of them was bold enough to create this thread.
The chief nurse dressed in tight spandex pants and low cut, short and tight shirts. I prefer to have a skilled nurse that dresses in a professional manner than one that dresses provocatively. I did not find her to be highly skilled in communications and for that reason I would not let her come to my airbnb to help for nothing. She is not the reason the others did well. Maybe they did well in spite of her. All she did is help people click, transport and help with other tasks. I clicked way better without her. However, if the poor guy was sick prior to that date and had pain that he told to the chief nurse and she, chalked it up to the LL surgery, did not tell the doctor or urge a D-dimer test or an ultrasound, then she was negligent. This though I don't know.
I had a blood clot in a small vein in my lower right leg before. Don't know where it came from. It felt weird, like my leg was partially asleep. I noticed the difference in blood flow in the leg. Something wasn't right. I could walk and exercise but it felt worse when I was laying down. Mostly weird feeling but not so much pain. I kept trying to massage it to bring it to life. I researched the internet to try to find out what it could be. You can't see it in an xray. I had to argue with the doctors to get an ultrasound because I had no risk factors. Eventually they gave me an ultrasound. It went away with baby aspirin and B-12. I felt it right away when it was gone. This clot though was not DVT because it was not in a deep vein.
We don't have autopsy results so we don't know if fasting was the cause of the blood clot. Like Jack Hanna said it produces only a minimal increase in the risk. Dr. Giotikas always prescribed blood thinners but only for about 3 weeks. He told me he hasn't decided to prescribe it for the entire lengthening phase. He even sent an official email stating the same. Interesting that @Jack Hanna says he now prescribes it longer. So maybe he has changed since he sent the email.
Many doctors with extensive legal teams have been brought down with a skilled plaintiff's legal team. I for one don't have enough information to blame anyone. We haven't seen the evidence. Sometimes unforeseen occurrences befall us.
It's true that now it seems like he changed his mind, as a current patient in Greece told me they have been given Xarelto for 10 extra days.
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