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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 10:18 am
#21
Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
If you can understand this:


Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness (1)
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis.. (2)
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man (3)

The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AMthen you can understand that wanting to get a raise and equal job opportunities are part of the very thing you're talking about. I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AMSure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 10:38 am
#22
Quote from: Bruce Wayne on September 12, 2020, 09:19:19 AMThe thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Nothing to do with being outliers.

Short men can have a great career because height is irrelevant in certain careers in the first place.

Short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models but never because these models find the short men physically attractive but rather just want to take advantage of these short men in some way.

YOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Even if you are more qualified for a job, you could get passed over for someone who is less qualified because he is taller. Not only do you have to get your knowledge down to a T but you also have to work harder to get the same opportunity.

 Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AMThe second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 10:42 am
#23
Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 10:38:14 AMWhat is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

What is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things that shouldn't really be compared, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 10:49 am
#24
Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 10:38:14 AMYOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

That's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 11:03 am
#25
Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:42:51 AMWhat is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things uncomparable, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.

What do you disagree with what I said?

When you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Dating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

Quote from: Bruce Wayne on September 12, 2020, 10:49:47 AMThat's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.


How is getting LL surgery to get a job you want or to give you a better chance to get that job any different from wanting to LL to get more respect, become more attractive or to fix height neurosis? Yes good looking people probably earn more money than ugly people. Height is a part of what is "good looking". The further opposite of "good" you are the more you are penalized or the harder it is for you. You have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

You might not feel like your height affects your career just as there are short guys who don't have height neurosis and go on with their life.
Saying people who feel limited by their height don't have the drive to succeed in their career is no different than saying people who feel limited by their height neurosis don't have the willpower to move forward in their life. If anything your height neurosis is self imposed.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 11:13 am
#26
Quote from: Bruce Wayne on September 12, 2020, 09:19:19 AMThe thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Some of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 11:40 am
#27
Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AMWhat do you disagree with what I said?

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AMI don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AMMaybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

So

Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:42:51 AMWorking enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

..

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AMWhen you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Yes. I don't disagree with everything that you say/id, the quoted parts were the ones, just to be clear.
Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AMThe second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

..

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AMDating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

When did I say that height doesn't affect career statistically?
I didn't say that dating and career aren't correlated. For some they aren't.
Quote from: O_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:42:51 AMWorking enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

Also disagree with your comparison.

Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AMshort men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

..

Quote from: IwannaBeTaller on September 12, 2020, 11:13:37 AMSome of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.

Been working as a programmer for a while and I already feel the heightism.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 12:05 pm
#28
[Redacted, wrong post, wrong brain]
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 12:27 pm
#29
Quote from: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AMYou have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

Being short is considered bad in our society because it is inherently bad. Trying to change that is just as moronic as trying to change the way being ugly/fat/small-dcked is considered bad.
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Posted on Sep 12, 2020, 12:38 pm
#30
One thing I will say about the whole height neurosis/ heightism/ leg lengthening procedure / everything this whole ordeal, is that you can think for yourselves as to why you should or shouldn't do this surgery. I have my own opinions, but it's just that- opinions. Plenty of people have their own, completely logical and justified unorthodox reasons for why they want to do their surgery. In the end if this surgery will improve your quality of life- by either removing neurosis (don't conflate this with being happier tho) or by opening doors that you practically weren't able to open as a shorter person, then more power to you.

And that's the ultimate goal- to achieve a better quality of life after this surgery. I will support everyone, if your intended effect of this surgery is to improve your life- then you don't need to take in other people's opinions. You can think for yourself- and that's a positive thing.

Imagine you go to R/short or the YouTube comments and try to explain why you want to do this procedure. Every argument would start and end with "muh breaking muh bones so dangerous perma pain oh my god I can buy a house wit dat moola". We unfortunately will never be approval from 98% of society for wanting to do this surgery or seen as "same" when in fact we know the truth and how this surgery actually makes total sense if you think about how much height neurosis/height insecurities/ problems resulting from height, how much this really drags down our life and how LL's pain and downsides really aren't too bad in comparison to the reward it can provide in improving our mental state and outlook on life.

You can think for yourself- and you don't need others approval to do this surgery. Everyone has their own reasons. I am just giving an opinion, but I can definitely see how some people's experience differ and are completely valid and justified.

I'm gonna share a random quote I found online a few weeks ago (it's underrelated to LL, but rather transgenderism, I'm not trans at all but it applies the same way to Leg surgery and Transitioning surgery/hormone therapy):

"
QuoteBefore I transitioned, I wish I had known that it's OK to think for yourself. I grew up in a tough, hostile home environment. Facing that and a society that discourages female voices made everything even more difficult. I felt like I couldn't trust myself. It took finding feminism to realize that my voice mattered.

I fought with myself for quite a while. As a child I felt male and even "packed"—padding a phallic object in the front of pants or underwear. A girl that I felt strongly for told me that she only liked boys, and inside I was screaming, "But I am one!" As a teenager I was judged a lot, frequently labelled as too loud and opinionated, and even too happy. But my outward appearance of happiness [masked] self-hatred.


 I felt that I needed to be sure. Over and over, I asked others if they could tell me if I was trans. Deep down I knew the answer, but I needed confirmation. When I finally told a mental health professional that I thought I could be transgender (guiltily as if I were admitting to a crime) he said, "You can just [stay] a female and wear men's clothing."

Just two weeks later (and against the professional’s advice), I was in a support group when a trans woman broke down in tears and said she felt all alone. Her family was not accepting her transition. When I stood up for her, I realized that I could stand up for myself, too. I came out to the support group as a boy (with my hair still in pigtails).

That was a year ago. Yesterday, I went in for my first testosterone appointment. I am just now accepting who I am, for myself. The main thing that I wish I would have known before I transitioned is that you don't need anyone's permission but your own."

Essentially replace "transitioning" with "leg lengthening" and you'll see what I mean.

That last part is the most important part.

You don't need other people's permission, not your parents, friends, society's, women, siblings, co-workers, nah fk that.

"you don't need anyone's permission but your own"
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