Confusion/annoyance at some of the attitudes here

Member

Posts: 83

Joined: May 2020

Posted on May 1, 2020, 12:11 am

#1

Hello! I accidentally came across this forum a year or so ago and a lot of the things I see here bother me quite a bit (perhaps irrationally so). I had limb lengthening done twice as a child on one of my legs and it was one of the worst things I’ve ever been through. A lot of my childhood was kind of ruined, I have issues with near constant pain and I’m going to continue having issues with my leg for the rest of my life. Because of that it bothers me quite a bit when I see people wanting to get CLL done since I honesty do not get your reasons for it. Like you’re putting yourself through unnecessary risk just to be a bit taller? It feels like a lot of you could do with therapy instead to be honest. This may come across as being quite aggressive and sorry if it does but it just bothers me a bit when I see people jumping at the chance to go through what was an awful time for me

I do realize the situations aren’t completely comparable and most people will have an easier time than I did since you’re staring off with legs that work fine and the technology is more advanced now but this forum just confuses me greatly. Maybe it’s because I’m not in your situation but some of the posts here just seem very shallow

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ghkid2019

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Posts: 359

Joined: Apr 2020

Posted on May 1, 2020, 1:01 am

#2

Height neurosis sometimes cannot be cured with therapy. TheAlchemist, a user on this forum, tried therapy for years and still retained his height neurosis. You'd actually be surprised how much a few inches makes in a person's lives. Height neurosis is a body dysmorphic disorder, so obviously it's not going to appear rational. People on this forum suffer because they feel they have short stature and lives have definitely changed because of this surgery. If you wanted a rhinoplasty because you had a hump on your nose, I don't judge. That hump isn't really doing much to you, so it's just a complex and people get insecure about certain parts of their body, and some decide to change it with surgery. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if you're asking, "this is so dangerous, oh my god why suffer so much for a few inches."

I guess my answer would be, if people don't get the surgery, they still suffer. They have a different kind of pain. A pain that lives with them for the rest of their life. Whether it's rational or irrational (mostly the latter), it doesn't really matter. LL is a risk that a desperate person will take to overcome their height neurosis. I don't think anyone doubts the craziness and risks of cutting your healthy legs in half for medically no reason- but that's a risk that's a desperate neurotic person will take because of how much height affects their life. There are people in their 40s and 50s who still have this mental condition and end up doing the surgery at that age. It probably does go away with time for some people, others it stays with them forever. But that's not really relevant.

For height neurosis people, we are willing to go through this procedure because of how much we are fked in our thinking because of our height. Yeah, we could be confident, we could succeed in life, we could have great partners and family, but a feeling of "defect" is just there. Many times it's not rational, like I've said already. There's no reason we should feel like "less" of a human because of our traits. But we do. And LL is a procedure that can fix that void for some people- maybe not for others. Whether you agree with it or not, the option of LL has given thousands of people the ability to live a normal life free of a mental neurosis- I think it's a pretty beautiful invention no matter how barbaric an operation it is- it can and HAS helped thousands of lives (just talking about cosmetic LL here, obviously LL is used for more than this as well).

Until you've lived it (by "it" i mean having height dysmorphia/neurosis), you probably wouldn't understand it. It's a normal reaction to view LL as crazy for the general public- and it's also why we gather on this forum to talk about this life changing procedure without judgement.

Edit Post

Height neurosis sometimes cannot be cured with therapy. TheAlchemist, a user on this forum, tried therapy for years and still retained his height neurosis. You'd actually be surprised how much a few inches makes in a person's lives. Height neurosis is a body dysmorphic disorder, so obviously it's not going to appear rational. People on this forum suffer because they feel they have short stature and lives have definitely changed because of this surgery. If you wanted a rhinoplasty because you had a hump on your nose, I don't judge. That hump isn't really doing much to you, so it's just a complex and people get insecure about certain parts of their body, and some decide to change it with surgery. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if you're asking, "this is so dangerous, oh my god why suffer so much for a few inches."

I guess my answer would be, if people don't get the surgery, they still suffer. They have a different kind of pain. A pain that lives with them for the rest of their life. Whether it's rational or irrational (mostly the latter), it doesn't really matter. LL is a risk that a desperate person will take to overcome their height neurosis. I don't think anyone doubts the craziness and risks of cutting your healthy legs in half for medically no reason- but that's a risk that's a desperate neurotic person will take because of how much height affects their life. There are people in their 40s and 50s who still have this mental condition and end up doing the surgery at that age. It probably does go away with time for some people, others it stays with them forever. But that's not really relevant.

For height neurosis people, we are willing to go through this procedure because of how much we are fked in our thinking because of our height. Yeah, we could be confident, we could succeed in life, we could have great partners and family, but a feeling of "defect" is just there. Many times it's not rational, like I've said already. There's no reason we should feel like "less" of a human because of our traits. But we do. And LL is a procedure that can fix that void for some people- maybe not for others. Whether you agree with it or not, the option of LL has given thousands of people the ability to live a normal life free of a mental neurosis- I think it's a pretty beautiful invention no matter how barbaric an operation it is- it can and HAS helped thousands of lives (just talking about cosmetic LL here, obviously LL is used for more than this as well).

Until you've lived it (by "it" i mean having height dysmorphia/neurosis), you probably wouldn't understand it. It's a normal reaction to view LL as crazy for the general public- and it's also why we gather on this forum to talk about this life changing procedure without judgement.

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zoooz

Member

Posts: 131

Joined: May 2020

Posted on May 1, 2020, 8:54 am

#3

I'm interested in hearing more about your experience. Which segment did you have lengthened and what method was used? What kind of issues have you been having with your leg? How many cm did you lengthen?

Your post could make a much greater impact if you could help people here understand what exactly it is that you're cautioning against. We all know LL carries risks, however it's unclear how real those risks are, whether everyone has issues or just those who lengthen excessive amounts, how life might look like after an ideal recovery. Adding details would give weight to your message and help us understand the negative sides to this choice.

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S

soitchi

Member

Posts: 250

Joined: May 2019

Posted on May 2, 2020, 3:53 am

#4

Quote from: 0live on May 01, 2020, 12:11:41 AMI have issues with near constant pain and I’m going to continue having issues with my leg for the rest of my life. Because of that it bothers me quite a bit when I see people wanting to get CLL done since I honesty do not get your reasons for it.

This has crossed my mind and I definitely do not believe posters saying they are no longer in pain and all that shít.

Knowing their desperate and weak mental states even after CLL (especially those want to/actually try to hide that they did CLL) they'll convince themselves nothing is wrong, everything turned out right and whatever to cope.

Really I don't even think it's body dysmorphia in most cases, especially in this forum, dudes here just have want a height that matches their ego, just look at how the posters that feel entitled to being taller.

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0

0live

Member

Posts: 72

Joined: May 2020

Posted on May 2, 2020, 3:54 am

#5

Quote from: ghkid2019 on May 01, 2020, 01:01:46 AMHeight neurosis sometimes cannot be cured with therapy. TheAlchemist, a user on this forum, tried therapy for years and still retained his height neurosis. You'd actually be surprised how much a few inches makes in a person's lives. Height neurosis is a body dysmorphic disorder, so obviously it's not going to appear rational. People on this forum suffer because they feel they have short stature and lives have definitely changed because of this surgery. If you wanted a rhinoplasty because you had a hump on your nose, I don't judge. That hump isn't really doing much to you, so it's just a complex and people get insecure about certain parts of their body, and some decide to change it with surgery. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if you're asking, "this is so dangerous, oh my god why suffer so much for a few inches."

I guess my answer would be, if people don't get the surgery, they still suffer. They have a different kind of pain. A pain that lives with them for the rest of their life. Whether it's rational or irrational (mostly the latter), it doesn't really matter. LL is a risk that a desperate person will take to overcome their height neurosis. I don't think anyone doubts the craziness and risks of cutting your healthy legs in half for medically no reason- but that's a risk that's a desperate neurotic person will take because of how much height affects their life. There are people in their 40s and 50s who still have this mental condition and end up doing the surgery at that age. It probably does go away with time for some people, others it stays with them forever. But that's not really relevant.

For height neurosis people, we are willing to go through this procedure because of how much we are fked in our thinking because of our height. Yeah, we could be confident, we could succeed in life, we could have great partners and family, but a feeling of "defect" is just there. Many times it's not rational, like I've said already. There's no reason we should feel like "less" of a human because of our traits. But we do. And LL is a procedure that can fix that void for some people- maybe not for others. Whether you agree with it or not, the option of LL has given thousands of people the ability to live a normal life free of a mental neurosis- I think it's a pretty beautiful invention no matter how barbaric an operation it is- it can and HAS helped thousands of lives (just talking about cosmetic LL here, obviously LL is used for more than this as well).

Until you've lived it (by "it" i mean having height dysmorphia/neurosis), you probably wouldn't understand it. It's a normal reaction to view LL as crazy for the general public- and it's also why we gather on this forum to talk about this life changing procedure without judgement.

Thank you for your reply! That was quite helpful to read actually! Mental health is very important and I do realise being unhappy with your appearance would have an affect on someone. It is unfortunate that anyone here is going through that.

I don't think I would ever be able to fully understand why people would want to go through this surgery still but that's mainly just because it really doesn't seem worth risking your (physical) health. I would absolutely love to have two healthy legs and not have to plan ahead every day on whether I'm able to do a physical activity or not but unfortunately can't. I do realise though that for people that are healthy the surgery has smaller risks so people can end up being perfectly fine at the end (and I do hope that anyone here that does have it makes a full recovery).

Edit Post

Quote from: ghkid2019 on May 01, 2020, 01:01:46 AMHeight neurosis sometimes cannot be cured with therapy. TheAlchemist, a user on this forum, tried therapy for years and still retained his height neurosis. You'd actually be surprised how much a few inches makes in a person's lives. Height neurosis is a body dysmorphic disorder, so obviously it's not going to appear rational. People on this forum suffer because they feel they have short stature and lives have definitely changed because of this surgery. If you wanted a rhinoplasty because you had a hump on your nose, I don't judge. That hump isn't really doing much to you, so it's just a complex and people get insecure about certain parts of their body, and some decide to change it with surgery. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if you're asking, "this is so dangerous, oh my god why suffer so much for a few inches."

I guess my answer would be, if people don't get the surgery, they still suffer. They have a different kind of pain. A pain that lives with them for the rest of their life. Whether it's rational or irrational (mostly the latter), it doesn't really matter. LL is a risk that a desperate person will take to overcome their height neurosis. I don't think anyone doubts the craziness and risks of cutting your healthy legs in half for medically no reason- but that's a risk that's a desperate neurotic person will take because of how much height affects their life. There are people in their 40s and 50s who still have this mental condition and end up doing the surgery at that age. It probably does go away with time for some people, others it stays with them forever. But that's not really relevant.

For height neurosis people, we are willing to go through this procedure because of how much we are fked in our thinking because of our height. Yeah, we could be confident, we could succeed in life, we could have great partners and family, but a feeling of "defect" is just there. Many times it's not rational, like I've said already. There's no reason we should feel like "less" of a human because of our traits. But we do. And LL is a procedure that can fix that void for some people- maybe not for others. Whether you agree with it or not, the option of LL has given thousands of people the ability to live a normal life free of a mental neurosis- I think it's a pretty beautiful invention no matter how barbaric an operation it is- it can and HAS helped thousands of lives (just talking about cosmetic LL here, obviously LL is used for more than this as well).

Until you've lived it (by "it" i mean having height dysmorphia/neurosis), you probably wouldn't understand it. It's a normal reaction to view LL as crazy for the general public- and it's also why we gather on this forum to talk about this life changing procedure without judgement.

Thank you for your reply! That was quite helpful to read actually! Mental health is very important and I do realise being unhappy with your appearance would have an affect on someone. It is unfortunate that anyone here is going through that.

I don't think I would ever be able to fully understand why people would want to go through this surgery still but that's mainly just because it really doesn't seem worth risking your (physical) health. I would absolutely love to have two healthy legs and not have to plan ahead every day on whether I'm able to do a physical activity or not but unfortunately can't. I do realise though that for people that are healthy the surgery has smaller risks so people can end up being perfectly fine at the end (and I do hope that anyone here that does have it makes a full recovery).

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0live

Member

Posts: 365

Joined: May 2020

Posted on May 2, 2020, 4:04 am

#6

Quote from: zoooz on May 01, 2020, 08:54:16 AMI'm interested in hearing more about your experience. Which segment did you have lengthened and what method was used? What kind of issues have you been having with your leg? How many cm did you lengthen?

Your post could make a much greater impact if you could help people here understand what exactly it is that you're cautioning against. We all know LL carries risks, however it's unclear how real those risks are, whether everyone has issues or just those who lengthen excessive amounts, how life might look like after an ideal recovery. Adding details would give weight to your message and help us understand the negative sides to this choice.

I had my fibula lengthened twice and femur lengthened once. Both with external frames (I think the frame on my fibula is called an Ilizarov frame and I'm not sure the name for the one on my femur. It ran along the side of your leg anyway). 12cm was lengthened in total but I'm not sure the amount on each segment since I was 6 and 11 years old when I had the surgeries done.

I was recently informed by a doctor that there's still a 2cm discrepancy between both my legs despite my growth plates being fused early on my good leg so that could be part of the reason for issues I've had. I've also had my knee and foot reconstructed as well as a fair few other minor surgeries so they probably also contribute to issues I have with pain. My main issues are with my knee being sore most the time and my ankle hurting. I'm still working on building strength in my muscles in my leg so there's a chance that will help to an extent but I've been told by multiple doctors there's no guarantee I'll ever be pain free.

I think part of the reason I'd also be cautioning against it is because I know I had quite a good recovery compared to lots of kids there. There wasn't any massive complications while I was lengthening my leg and I know people who have had to fuse their knee (that may not be the right word) so that it wouldn't bend anymore to try and solve issues. People with the same condition as me will obviously have more complications than someone perfectly healthy, I just wouldn't want to risk my health for the sake of being a bit taller. Adding a lift to the bottom of your shoe seems far easier (although it won't make you as tall as having this surgery done). I had lifts on the bottom of my shoe that were a few cm tall and they were rarely noticed by people (until they were about 5cm tall I'd guess).

Edit Post

Quote from: zoooz on May 01, 2020, 08:54:16 AMI'm interested in hearing more about your experience. Which segment did you have lengthened and what method was used? What kind of issues have you been having with your leg? How many cm did you lengthen?

Your post could make a much greater impact if you could help people here understand what exactly it is that you're cautioning against. We all know LL carries risks, however it's unclear how real those risks are, whether everyone has issues or just those who lengthen excessive amounts, how life might look like after an ideal recovery. Adding details would give weight to your message and help us understand the negative sides to this choice.

I had my fibula lengthened twice and femur lengthened once. Both with external frames (I think the frame on my fibula is called an Ilizarov frame and I'm not sure the name for the one on my femur. It ran along the side of your leg anyway). 12cm was lengthened in total but I'm not sure the amount on each segment since I was 6 and 11 years old when I had the surgeries done.

I was recently informed by a doctor that there's still a 2cm discrepancy between both my legs despite my growth plates being fused early on my good leg so that could be part of the reason for issues I've had. I've also had my knee and foot reconstructed as well as a fair few other minor surgeries so they probably also contribute to issues I have with pain. My main issues are with my knee being sore most the time and my ankle hurting. I'm still working on building strength in my muscles in my leg so there's a chance that will help to an extent but I've been told by multiple doctors there's no guarantee I'll ever be pain free.

I think part of the reason I'd also be cautioning against it is because I know I had quite a good recovery compared to lots of kids there. There wasn't any massive complications while I was lengthening my leg and I know people who have had to fuse their knee (that may not be the right word) so that it wouldn't bend anymore to try and solve issues. People with the same condition as me will obviously have more complications than someone perfectly healthy, I just wouldn't want to risk my health for the sake of being a bit taller. Adding a lift to the bottom of your shoe seems far easier (although it won't make you as tall as having this surgery done). I had lifts on the bottom of my shoe that were a few cm tall and they were rarely noticed by people (until they were about 5cm tall I'd guess).

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0live

Member

Posts: 273

Joined: May 2020

Posted on May 2, 2020, 4:22 am

#7

Quote from: soitchi on May 02, 2020, 03:53:12 AMThis has crossed my mind and I definitely do not believe posters saying they are no longer in pain and all that shít.

Knowing their desperate and weak mental states even after CLL (especially those want to/actually try to hide that they did CLL) they'll convince themselves nothing is wrong, everything turned out right and whatever to cope.

Really I don't even think it's body dysmorphia in most cases, especially in this forum, dudes here just have want a height that matches their ego, just look at how the posters that feel entitled to being taller.

I mean I do think it's possible to be pain free after the surgery. I just find it a bit upsetting that people would be willing to risk that since it does have a large impact on your life.

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ghkid2019

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Posts: 240

Joined: Apr 2020

Posted on May 2, 2020, 5:51 am

#8

Quote from: 0live on May 02, 2020, 03:54:28 AMThank you for your reply! That was quite helpful to read actually! Mental health is very important and I do realise being unhappy with your appearance would have an affect on someone. It is unfortunate that anyone here is going through that.

I don't think I would ever be able to fully understand why people would want to go through this surgery still but that's mainly just because it really doesn't seem worth risking your (physical) health. I would absolutely love to have two healthy legs and not have to plan ahead every day on whether I'm able to do a physical activity or not but unfortunately can't. I do realise though that for people that are healthy the surgery has smaller risks so people can end up being perfectly fine at the end (and I do hope that anyone here that does have it makes a full recovery).

As a personal anecdote, I also completely dismissed of LL for my short stature- until I discovered Stryde, an internal nail that allows full leg weight bearing as soon as 3 weeks post surgery. I would never consider externals. I think as time passes and the technology improves for recovery, I think more and more people will take a serious look at CLL as an option, rather than acceptance. Im only one case though, tons of people would still be willing to use externals and more difficult methods to LL.

Also I haven't done LL either so I don't know if I would own up to my words when the time comes haha.

I think the main reason why people go through this risky procedure, is because the benefits are worth more to them than the risks. They probably feel so sad with their height that the collective pain of a lifetimes worth of being short is much greater than the short term pain and complications(maybe long term sometimes) of LL.

They will take that gamble of betting their legs on the line

Edit Post

Quote from: 0live on May 02, 2020, 03:54:28 AMThank you for your reply! That was quite helpful to read actually! Mental health is very important and I do realise being unhappy with your appearance would have an affect on someone. It is unfortunate that anyone here is going through that.

I don't think I would ever be able to fully understand why people would want to go through this surgery still but that's mainly just because it really doesn't seem worth risking your (physical) health. I would absolutely love to have two healthy legs and not have to plan ahead every day on whether I'm able to do a physical activity or not but unfortunately can't. I do realise though that for people that are healthy the surgery has smaller risks so people can end up being perfectly fine at the end (and I do hope that anyone here that does have it makes a full recovery).

As a personal anecdote, I also completely dismissed of LL for my short stature- until I discovered Stryde, an internal nail that allows full leg weight bearing as soon as 3 weeks post surgery. I would never consider externals. I think as time passes and the technology improves for recovery, I think more and more people will take a serious look at CLL as an option, rather than acceptance. Im only one case though, tons of people would still be willing to use externals and more difficult methods to LL.

Also I haven't done LL either so I don't know if I would own up to my words when the time comes haha.

I think the main reason why people go through this risky procedure, is because the benefits are worth more to them than the risks. They probably feel so sad with their height that the collective pain of a lifetimes worth of being short is much greater than the short term pain and complications(maybe long term sometimes) of LL.

They will take that gamble of betting their legs on the line

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ghkid2019

Member

Posts: 193

Joined: Apr 2020

Posted on May 2, 2020, 6:00 am

#9

Quote from: soitchi on May 02, 2020, 03:53:12 AMThis has crossed my mind and I definitely do not believe posters saying they are no longer in pain and all that shít.

Knowing their desperate and weak mental states even after CLL (especially those want to/actually try to hide that they did CLL) they'll convince themselves nothing is wrong, everything turned out right and whatever to cope.

Really I don't even think it's body dysmorphia in most cases, especially in this forum, dudes here just have want a height that matches their ego, just look at how the posters that feel entitled to being taller.

I do get where you're coming from. I do think some people want to be chads or whatnot, and many have beta personalities that likely is the root of their problems rather than their height...

But do bear in mind that there are quite a few people who are pretty darn short and just simply want to be average or not feel like their height makes them stand out, I am one of them. I am 5th percentile height (5'4-5'5) in my country and I view myself as less of a person, obviously un rationally. I definitely do agree that many hopefuls have a broken mindset before getting the surgery and doing the surgery won't just make someone more charismatic or fix their lack of social skills.

But I just want to make you know that many do actually have body dysmorphia/height neurosis and many are pretty competent in their life with relationships, girlfriends, good job good friends, good personality, and simply do this surgery to cure their neurosis.

I agree with you, many people are extremely dissatisfied with their surgery life after, they are taller but have a myriad of issues and try to justify it as worth it. But there is a good portion that do recover pretty well, not 100% but definitely a good life still and do reap the rewards of their bonus height in amazing ways.

Edit Post

Quote from: soitchi on May 02, 2020, 03:53:12 AMThis has crossed my mind and I definitely do not believe posters saying they are no longer in pain and all that shít.

Knowing their desperate and weak mental states even after CLL (especially those want to/actually try to hide that they did CLL) they'll convince themselves nothing is wrong, everything turned out right and whatever to cope.

Really I don't even think it's body dysmorphia in most cases, especially in this forum, dudes here just have want a height that matches their ego, just look at how the posters that feel entitled to being taller.

I do get where you're coming from. I do think some people want to be chads or whatnot, and many have beta personalities that likely is the root of their problems rather than their height...

But do bear in mind that there are quite a few people who are pretty darn short and just simply want to be average or not feel like their height makes them stand out, I am one of them. I am 5th percentile height (5'4-5'5) in my country and I view myself as less of a person, obviously un rationally. I definitely do agree that many hopefuls have a broken mindset before getting the surgery and doing the surgery won't just make someone more charismatic or fix their lack of social skills.

But I just want to make you know that many do actually have body dysmorphia/height neurosis and many are pretty competent in their life with relationships, girlfriends, good job good friends, good personality, and simply do this surgery to cure their neurosis.

I agree with you, many people are extremely dissatisfied with their surgery life after, they are taller but have a myriad of issues and try to justify it as worth it. But there is a good portion that do recover pretty well, not 100% but definitely a good life still and do reap the rewards of their bonus height in amazing ways.

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Montreal172

Member

Posts: 143

Joined: Apr 2019

Posted on May 2, 2020, 8:34 am

#10

The dude who wants to proceed with limb lengthening of 10 cm per segment to match his ego, and is in constant denial about his messed up legs after, that's wrong.

But someone going with a conservative goal, using a good method, commits, and minimizes risk, I think that is better example of the positive outcomes that can occur.

But don't get me wrong both have risks, I just feel less bad hearing about a guy who did 10 cm in a segment with Bets or another surgeon, and got screwed over, as opposed to the guy who had problems at 4 cm.

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Confusion/annoyance at some of the attitudes here

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