Dr Axel Becker - orthopaedic surgeon Betz Institute

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Posts: 67

Joined: Feb 2017

Posted on Dec 7, 2022, 12:41 am

#31

Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 06, 2022, 11:40:27 PMAgain who told you he is an apprentice?

Absolutely definitely do not agree with 80% being the surgery itself. Even Paley said in his latest cyborg4life interview quote “most surgeons can install an internal nail- it’s not that difficult. But a good LL doctor knows the process and what to watch an eye out for […]”
Why is that? Considering how long this takes and how much you need to actively train. Everyone I met got the nail in perfectly. The outcomes however varied drastically by one factor: how much the person stretched/trained. I would say 30% is the surgery and 70% is patients compliance. This is why in the US they don‘t let you go home in my opinion. They are afraid of lawsuits so they keep you there and do 7 times a week PT where they force you to train/stretch and if you don‘t go they have it on paper. (Ofc this also is better to have a more consistent outcome in patients, for sure. The downside is the increased price).

Where did I not support my stance with arguments? I literally wrote why I disagree.
And again, I couldn’t disagree more.

Also I don’t see why Betz should be “a bad Dr in the end”, how did you come up with that? You probably read one diary of taller90 who did 11cm (and recovered well).
It’s like me saying: oh yea I heard Giotikas took 7h for femur surgery on one patient. He must be awful. There was a death case: He must be bad at the end. Oh someone got nerve problems, he must be not that good. Oh and remember that Paley patient who’s femur broke in the middle of the day post lengthening? Must be a terrible doctor to allow him to walk lol. (Echo chamber thoughts like these were why I quit this forum back then).

No, i dont think that way. I think Giotikas is a great option for European doctors. And I also think the death case was the patients fault, bc skipping prescribed medication =noncompliance (and also the reason why you should know the process in and out before you do it in my eyes).

Many patients of Betz did more than 10cm. Even Tall on the old forum did 12cm and he ended up with terrible knee pain due to a completely.off femur tibia ratio, something that Betz never mentioned to him.
He finally did LL in tibias too with Rozbruch or Mahboubian (I don't remeber) just to not end up crippled, although he didn't need the extra height as he was already about 1.87 after his first LL.
And there are many other cases of Betz with much more lengthening than the safe amounts. Yes I don't think he was a good doctor but someone who made his name when only very few doctors did LL, especially in first world countries of Europe. Another example (much worse though) is Guichet, a very expensive doctor with many very bad cases like Unicorn's etc.

I am in the LL world.more than 15 years (and 12 as an LLer) so I really know what I am talking about.
Betz and Guichet are nothing more than overestimated merchants. I don't know about Becker but he must do LLs less than 2-3 years because I haven't heard about him when I was back in the forum about 3 years ago.
And 3 years of.experience for LL is very little.
If he is more experienced than that then its my fault.

Finally, I insist that doing a successful surgery is the most important for LL. Thinking that just putting an im nail is easy and anyone can do it without problems is plain bs. Even more with externals which at least have the opportunity to fix some things after the initial.surgery, especially hexapods.
But with internals the surgery itself is even more than 80% of a successful outcome. With extrernals yes, the post surgery plays some major role.too.
But doctors like Betz and Becker do almost exclusively internals so if the surgery is not excellent then the final.outcome will be problematic for sure, no matter what the patient will do.

Edit Post

Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 06, 2022, 11:40:27 PMAgain who told you he is an apprentice?

Absolutely definitely do not agree with 80% being the surgery itself. Even Paley said in his latest cyborg4life interview quote “most surgeons can install an internal nail- it’s not that difficult. But a good LL doctor knows the process and what to watch an eye out for […]”
Why is that? Considering how long this takes and how much you need to actively train. Everyone I met got the nail in perfectly. The outcomes however varied drastically by one factor: how much the person stretched/trained. I would say 30% is the surgery and 70% is patients compliance. This is why in the US they don‘t let you go home in my opinion. They are afraid of lawsuits so they keep you there and do 7 times a week PT where they force you to train/stretch and if you don‘t go they have it on paper. (Ofc this also is better to have a more consistent outcome in patients, for sure. The downside is the increased price).

Where did I not support my stance with arguments? I literally wrote why I disagree.
And again, I couldn’t disagree more.

Also I don’t see why Betz should be “a bad Dr in the end”, how did you come up with that? You probably read one diary of taller90 who did 11cm (and recovered well).
It’s like me saying: oh yea I heard Giotikas took 7h for femur surgery on one patient. He must be awful. There was a death case: He must be bad at the end. Oh someone got nerve problems, he must be not that good. Oh and remember that Paley patient who’s femur broke in the middle of the day post lengthening? Must be a terrible doctor to allow him to walk lol. (Echo chamber thoughts like these were why I quit this forum back then).

No, i dont think that way. I think Giotikas is a great option for European doctors. And I also think the death case was the patients fault, bc skipping prescribed medication =noncompliance (and also the reason why you should know the process in and out before you do it in my eyes).

Many patients of Betz did more than 10cm. Even Tall on the old forum did 12cm and he ended up with terrible knee pain due to a completely.off femur tibia ratio, something that Betz never mentioned to him.
He finally did LL in tibias too with Rozbruch or Mahboubian (I don't remeber) just to not end up crippled, although he didn't need the extra height as he was already about 1.87 after his first LL.
And there are many other cases of Betz with much more lengthening than the safe amounts. Yes I don't think he was a good doctor but someone who made his name when only very few doctors did LL, especially in first world countries of Europe. Another example (much worse though) is Guichet, a very expensive doctor with many very bad cases like Unicorn's etc.

I am in the LL world.more than 15 years (and 12 as an LLer) so I really know what I am talking about.
Betz and Guichet are nothing more than overestimated merchants. I don't know about Becker but he must do LLs less than 2-3 years because I haven't heard about him when I was back in the forum about 3 years ago.
And 3 years of.experience for LL is very little.
If he is more experienced than that then its my fault.

Finally, I insist that doing a successful surgery is the most important for LL. Thinking that just putting an im nail is easy and anyone can do it without problems is plain bs. Even more with externals which at least have the opportunity to fix some things after the initial.surgery, especially hexapods.
But with internals the surgery itself is even more than 80% of a successful outcome. With extrernals yes, the post surgery plays some major role.too.
But doctors like Betz and Becker do almost exclusively internals so if the surgery is not excellent then the final.outcome will be problematic for sure, no matter what the patient will do.

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RealLostSoul

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Posts: 43

Joined: Dec 2020

Posted on Dec 7, 2022, 2:43 am

#32

Quote from: Body Builder on December 07, 2022, 12:41:08 AMMany patients of Betz did more than 10cm. Even Tall on the old forum did 12cm and he ended up with terrible knee pain due to a completely.off femur tibia ratio, something that Betz never mentioned to him.
He finally did LL in tibias too with Rozbruch or Mahboubian (I don't remeber) just to not end up crippled, although he didn't need the extra height as he was already about 1.87 after his first LL.
And there are many other cases of Betz with much more lengthening than the safe amounts. Yes I don't think he was a good doctor but someone who made his name when only very few doctors did LL, especially in first world countries of Europe. Another example (much worse though) is Guichet, a very expensive doctor with many very bad cases like Unicorn's etc.

I am in the LL world.more than 15 years (and 12 as an LLer) so I really know what I am talking about.
Betz and Guichet are nothing more than overestimated merchants. I don't know about Becker but he must do LLs less than 2-3 years because I haven't heard about him when I was back in the forum about 3 years ago.
And 3 years of.experience for LL is very little.
If he is more experienced than that then its my fault.

Finally, I insist that doing a successful surgery is the most important for LL. Thinking that just putting an im nail is easy and anyone can do it without problems is plain bs. Even more with externals which at least have the opportunity to fix some things after the initial.surgery, especially hexapods.
But with internals the surgery itself is even more than 80% of a successful outcome. With extrernals yes, the post surgery plays some major role.too.
But doctors like Betz and Becker do almost exclusively internals so if the surgery is not excellent then the final.outcome will be problematic for sure, no matter what the patient will do.

Ok first of all yes I can‘t deny that 12 in an isolated surgery is too much. Surely. I am not quite sure if an off femur/tibia ratio causes knee osteoarthritis tbh. Misalignment does it yea but just ratio? Not too sure about that but I would be willing to research that. I think overlengthening will most likely cause balance / movement as well as muscular problems. And a super long recovery.
Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it? I am a big believer of starting height doesn’t matter at all. People who choose this have different reasons and backstories. And I somewhat was skeptical myself of doing this for certain reasons but after seeing the faces and hearing the stories of real patients. I definitely changed my mind. Height increase is height increase. No matter where you start and just bc person A does it for reasons A. Person B doesn’t have to do it for the same reasons at all. Anyways I am dwelling off.
I kind of agree with the sentiment about Betz and Guichet but only to a certain degree, as we never heard both sides of the story (for unicorn I do think it is clearly malpractice to the infinite). I will just say this, because I did also hear some bad experience with Dr Betz, a few things. Whatever. Let me just say this, I am very glad I fell under Dr Becker’s regimen at a different location. I think he is more transparent and honest than his companion.

From what I could gather it is at least 4 years training for orthopedic surgeon after med school. Then another 2 years minimum to be a specialist in a certain field (limb lengthening). I heard he is in with Dr Betz for about 5 years or so. So overall I think he might be doing it for 6-10 years now.
Yes this is definitely not as experienced as many others. I do agree. And I also was skeptical. But after my experience with him I am only positively surprised and if I do tibia again I will choose him. Just my 2cents. I understand that to be established he needs many more years and all, and yes I understand if someone chooses someone else, but I am personally satisfied.

I never said you were not knowledgeable and I know your were active on the old forums. It just goes against me that I read someone write facts as if they were facts but in my experience they are simply not true. (Like Becker only doing orthopedic surgery for 2 or 3 years is simply impossible.)

Yes the surgery is obviously the most IMPORTANT part. If it goes wrong you are screwed. But it’s just one part of the big process. Read again, I said most orthopedic surgeons can install an intramedullary nail. They do it for trauma a lot. Now maybe a special lengthening nail and good osteotomy is a different story. But look here “how to pick a good surgeon”. He admits that a surgeon needs to know more than just the surgery. But how to avoid complications during the process and how to do emergency surgeries etc. And good fibula fixation in tibia etc.
Whatever, if the surgery is good then the outcome will still vary so much by the patient it’s most definitely a big factor. And I also do think a surgeon needs to do checkups and not let a random PT (if there isn’t one close to the team like with Paley) decide about lengthening rate, etc.
Anyways both Betz and Becker are doing excellent jobs at installing the system. But Betz from what I gathered definitely seemed to lack post operative care, that’s why I also have mixed feelings about him.

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

Edit Post

Quote from: Body Builder on December 07, 2022, 12:41:08 AMMany patients of Betz did more than 10cm. Even Tall on the old forum did 12cm and he ended up with terrible knee pain due to a completely.off femur tibia ratio, something that Betz never mentioned to him.
He finally did LL in tibias too with Rozbruch or Mahboubian (I don't remeber) just to not end up crippled, although he didn't need the extra height as he was already about 1.87 after his first LL.
And there are many other cases of Betz with much more lengthening than the safe amounts. Yes I don't think he was a good doctor but someone who made his name when only very few doctors did LL, especially in first world countries of Europe. Another example (much worse though) is Guichet, a very expensive doctor with many very bad cases like Unicorn's etc.

I am in the LL world.more than 15 years (and 12 as an LLer) so I really know what I am talking about.
Betz and Guichet are nothing more than overestimated merchants. I don't know about Becker but he must do LLs less than 2-3 years because I haven't heard about him when I was back in the forum about 3 years ago.
And 3 years of.experience for LL is very little.
If he is more experienced than that then its my fault.

Finally, I insist that doing a successful surgery is the most important for LL. Thinking that just putting an im nail is easy and anyone can do it without problems is plain bs. Even more with externals which at least have the opportunity to fix some things after the initial.surgery, especially hexapods.
But with internals the surgery itself is even more than 80% of a successful outcome. With extrernals yes, the post surgery plays some major role.too.
But doctors like Betz and Becker do almost exclusively internals so if the surgery is not excellent then the final.outcome will be problematic for sure, no matter what the patient will do.

Ok first of all yes I can‘t deny that 12 in an isolated surgery is too much. Surely. I am not quite sure if an off femur/tibia ratio causes knee osteoarthritis tbh. Misalignment does it yea but just ratio? Not too sure about that but I would be willing to research that. I think overlengthening will most likely cause balance / movement as well as muscular problems. And a super long recovery.
Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it? I am a big believer of starting height doesn’t matter at all. People who choose this have different reasons and backstories. And I somewhat was skeptical myself of doing this for certain reasons but after seeing the faces and hearing the stories of real patients. I definitely changed my mind. Height increase is height increase. No matter where you start and just bc person A does it for reasons A. Person B doesn’t have to do it for the same reasons at all. Anyways I am dwelling off.
I kind of agree with the sentiment about Betz and Guichet but only to a certain degree, as we never heard both sides of the story (for unicorn I do think it is clearly malpractice to the infinite). I will just say this, because I did also hear some bad experience with Dr Betz, a few things. Whatever. Let me just say this, I am very glad I fell under Dr Becker’s regimen at a different location. I think he is more transparent and honest than his companion.

From what I could gather it is at least 4 years training for orthopedic surgeon after med school. Then another 2 years minimum to be a specialist in a certain field (limb lengthening). I heard he is in with Dr Betz for about 5 years or so. So overall I think he might be doing it for 6-10 years now.
Yes this is definitely not as experienced as many others. I do agree. And I also was skeptical. But after my experience with him I am only positively surprised and if I do tibia again I will choose him. Just my 2cents. I understand that to be established he needs many more years and all, and yes I understand if someone chooses someone else, but I am personally satisfied.

I never said you were not knowledgeable and I know your were active on the old forums. It just goes against me that I read someone write facts as if they were facts but in my experience they are simply not true. (Like Becker only doing orthopedic surgery for 2 or 3 years is simply impossible.)

Yes the surgery is obviously the most IMPORTANT part. If it goes wrong you are screwed. But it’s just one part of the big process. Read again, I said most orthopedic surgeons can install an intramedullary nail. They do it for trauma a lot. Now maybe a special lengthening nail and good osteotomy is a different story. But look here “how to pick a good surgeon”. He admits that a surgeon needs to know more than just the surgery. But how to avoid complications during the process and how to do emergency surgeries etc. And good fibula fixation in tibia etc.
Whatever, if the surgery is good then the outcome will still vary so much by the patient it’s most definitely a big factor. And I also do think a surgeon needs to do checkups and not let a random PT (if there isn’t one close to the team like with Paley) decide about lengthening rate, etc.
Anyways both Betz and Becker are doing excellent jobs at installing the system. But Betz from what I gathered definitely seemed to lack post operative care, that’s why I also have mixed feelings about him.

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

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IceTrae38

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Posts: 120

Joined: Dec 2022

Posted on Dec 7, 2022, 4:11 am

#33

How difficult is clicking with Betzbone and G-nail?

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RealLostSoul

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Posts: 332

Joined: Dec 2020

Posted on Dec 7, 2022, 1:55 pm

#34

Quote from: IceTrae38 on December 07, 2022, 04:11:41 AMHow difficult is clicking with Betzbone and G-nail?

Beginning it‘s horrible but after a while very easy. Tibia seems to be much easier from the beginning.

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hanshi

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Posts: 378

Joined: Jun 2014

Posted on Dec 8, 2022, 11:10 am

#35

Betz has had a flat, long and bloody learning curve during which he has hurt and crippled many of his customers, a.k.a. patients.
He seems to have become better during recent years though. However as a doctor or even just as a human being he is not trustworthy. I've never met anybody more unscrupulous than him.
In general I would strongly recommend not to do this surgery in Germany due to the extremely bad protection of patient rights there.

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ten

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Posts: 144

Joined: Aug 2022

Posted on Dec 8, 2022, 11:56 am

#36

Quote from: hanshi on December 08, 2022, 11:10:00 AMBetz has had a flat, long and bloody learning curve during which he has hurt and crippled many of his customers, a.k.a. patients.
He seems to have become better during recent years though. However as a doctor or even just as a human being he is not trustworthy. I've never met anybody more unscrupulous than him.
In general I would strongly recommend not to do this surgery in Germany due to the extremely bad protection of patient rights there.

So just USA then?

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hanshi

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Joined: Jun 2014

Posted on Dec 9, 2022, 9:27 pm

#37

Quote from: ten on December 08, 2022, 11:56:45 AMSo just USA then?

You should check out the jurisdictions. A red flag is definitely if the surgeon and the nail manufacturer are the same person. That's actually not allowed in many, if not most countries.

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Body Builder

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Posts: 227

Joined: Feb 2017

Posted on Dec 10, 2022, 12:34 am

#38

Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 07, 2022, 02:43:43 AM
Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it?

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

Yes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

Edit Post

Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 07, 2022, 02:43:43 AM
Second of all, the statement of “he didn’t need extra height”. Are you referring to as he didn’t want to get taller but needed tibia LL to fix it?

Also I know u won’t like it but I think nobody should ever do any external method for cosmetic leg lengthening. (That’s my opinion not a fact)

Yes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

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RealLostSoul

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Joined: Dec 2020

Posted on Dec 10, 2022, 1:44 am

#39

Quote from: Body Builder on December 10, 2022, 12:34:30 AMYes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

First short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

Edit Post

Quote from: Body Builder on December 10, 2022, 12:34:30 AMYes, thats what I am saying. Tall had clearly mentioned in his diary that he didn't want extra height because he was 1.88 after his femur LL amd was completely fine with that (like any sane person). But he did a tibia LL because the american doctors told him that it was the only way to fix his major knee pain that as they mentioned was due to completely off tibia/femur ration.
If it had to do with misalignments then he would have just fixed it. It would have been much easier, cheaper, safer and faster than another LL which added him some extra height he didnt want (about 5-6 cm if I remember right).
And all these due to the insane lengthening that he did with Betz without ever being informed about the huge risk of developing permanent knee problems, something he would have avoided if he lengthened about 8cm but for sure not 12cm as he did!

Finally, you can write your opinion. But still, the most safe way to do LL is external tibias with hexapod. I have written many times why and all the real professional orthopaedic surgeons agree with me because it is way less invasive than internals and it always give you the opportunity to fix any misalignments and in the end to have completely straight bones and only one major surgery and not 2 like it happens with all internal devices.
Externals like the ones I used (monorails) of course are not the best way for LL and I paid the prize with a significant misalignment on my right tibia that I fixed with a titanium plate some years later. But if someone can stand the discomfort a big device like hexapods have, then it is for sure the safest way for LL. In tibias of course because for femurs the only safe way are internals. But even then comparing external tibias with hexapods and internal femurs, the first option will always be the safest.

First short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

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Body Builder

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Joined: Feb 2017

Posted on Dec 10, 2022, 5:38 am

#40

Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 10, 2022, 01:44:11 AMFirst short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

Doing 5-6cm on tibias fixed a lot the ratio, like just doing only 7cm on femurs which is very safe. I only remember that he did one of his tibias first with fully internals and when he finished it he did another LL on his other leg, because he wanted to be mobile. But I don't know if things went fine because I retired from the old forum for many years.

So Paley is against externals now? Because when I did LL Paley always mentioned how superior and safe were Ilizarovs for tibias and used some Taylor Spatian hexapods for LL. Maybe now that precise 2 and generally magnetic nails cost about twice or even more that ts frames he suddenly changed his mind...after all every doctor who performs LL is mainly a merchant. And merchants always want the more momey they can get.

Externals on tibias with hexapods have as.downsides only the discomfort and the scars. For me discomfort is the biggest con (thats why I used monorails) because I never cared about.scars and also they can be minimized with laser.
Infections are always superficial and you can treat them easily with oral antibiotics. With internals, infections are more rare but much more dangerous if they finally happen because they are inside the bone. Also, the risks with embolis, the most dangerous risk of LL, are way bigger with internals.
I am not against doing fully internals femur LL with a good nail though, I am just writing why fully external tibias with am hexapod is the safest way for LL. But even fully internal femur LL is a good option. Lon on tibias is an unnecessary procedure for me though and of course a recipe of disaster for femurs.

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Quote from: RealLostSoul on December 10, 2022, 01:44:11 AMFirst short thing; like I mentioned. I do not think somebody is too tall or too short to do this. It‘s just made up by people to judge others. I think there is a lot of different backstories, motivations, reasons etc. You can never compare one suffering to the other. And height increase is height increase +X more height is +X more height no matter the starting point.

Okay to his case: I think it must be a unique case because it‘s the first time I ever I heard that femur/tibia ratio ALONE can cause knee degradation down the road. I mean yes it does make sense. But then again, there are quite a lot people that did more than 8, maybe not 12 necessary but still most of them end up being fine. And how again would 5cm tibia fix the ratio? If it is 80:100 then you would need 9.6cm in tibia to balance it out again. Maybe he started already with 0.7 tibia/femur and then got it way out of wack. Idk but it does sound to me like there may have been other underlying issues, but who knows. Was he fine in the end after tibia LL?

I do kind of agree with the last paragraph. Yes from a surgery standpoint external tibias (NOT LON) may be the best. I think that externals have their big downside though especially for cosmetic cases though which is why most top doctors like Paley won’t offer it and advice against. Also the practicality of carrying the frame around for an extended amount of time. I guess for 3 inches tibia it would be like 9 months? That’s a damn long time. Then reduced mobility. Infection risk. Ugly scars. Etc.

Doing 5-6cm on tibias fixed a lot the ratio, like just doing only 7cm on femurs which is very safe. I only remember that he did one of his tibias first with fully internals and when he finished it he did another LL on his other leg, because he wanted to be mobile. But I don't know if things went fine because I retired from the old forum for many years.

So Paley is against externals now? Because when I did LL Paley always mentioned how superior and safe were Ilizarovs for tibias and used some Taylor Spatian hexapods for LL. Maybe now that precise 2 and generally magnetic nails cost about twice or even more that ts frames he suddenly changed his mind...after all every doctor who performs LL is mainly a merchant. And merchants always want the more momey they can get.

Externals on tibias with hexapods have as.downsides only the discomfort and the scars. For me discomfort is the biggest con (thats why I used monorails) because I never cared about.scars and also they can be minimized with laser.
Infections are always superficial and you can treat them easily with oral antibiotics. With internals, infections are more rare but much more dangerous if they finally happen because they are inside the bone. Also, the risks with embolis, the most dangerous risk of LL, are way bigger with internals.
I am not against doing fully internals femur LL with a good nail though, I am just writing why fully external tibias with am hexapod is the safest way for LL. But even fully internal femur LL is a good option. Lon on tibias is an unnecessary procedure for me though and of course a recipe of disaster for femurs.

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Dr Axel Becker - orthopaedic surgeon Betz Institute

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