Lengthening Amount Recommended

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Posts: 262

Joined: Jun 2014

Posted on Nov 9, 2016, 10:27 am

#61

Quote from: Bigpoppapump on November 04, 2016, 08:46:06 PMThe lengthening will vary from person to person your body doesn't give a sh@t about percentages or formulas you have come up with.

These ridiculous percentages/formulas individuals come up with in here are proof that these people are clearly not wired up right and should not be doing this surgery.

The proportion police are severe body neurotics/dysphoriacs its proper medications they need not surgery.

'Oh if I lengthen 8cms il have lengthened 'x' percentage of my tibia which will make my tibia/femur ratio 'x' amount blah blah blah. Trust me when you cannot walk properly or are hobbling about on crutches for a year the last thing on your mind will be your fkn wingspan or ratios

Dude - people need hope. This surgery for many people is a way to make it through the hardships of their day, a day of feeling inferior and unhappy, the feeling of not being in the appearance you want to be. They learn that the surgery exists and it serves as a dream of the end of these horrible feelings, a dream of being taller, because that's what some people want very badly. Of course they think about how much they will be able to gain, and of course they will dream of 8 cms, or more. Thinking that "maybe I can lengthen 3 cms before my body resists too much and I have to stop" is not a great glimpse of hope for these people.

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B

Bigpoppapump

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Posts: 427

Joined: Jul 2016

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 12:01 am

#62

Hope is fine so long as you are not being delusional. There's a huge difference between a positive attitude and a delusional one. Most of the people on this board suffer from the latter!

I get it being short fking sucks it wrecks our lives and we have no control over it however pushing yourself to do 'ideal' amounts or trying to get your money's worth for what you paid is going to fk a lot of people up.

This surgery I'm sure has helped a lot of people the ones who did safe amounts and listened to their bodies however I'm sure there are numerous folk out there this surgery has messed up badly.

This surgery is not your knight in shining armour that a lot of folk on here think it is

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A

apoxyomenos

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Posts: 305

Joined: Oct 2016

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 3:02 am

#63

Every time there's a change you know exactly what you're leaving, but not exactly where you'll be, your new feelings. You have in mind just a very perfect idea, not an already touched and lived reality. Thanks to this forum all the LL candidates can touch the realities of the ones who have had their own individual and unrepeatable experiences reported in their own diaries.
But in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?). So, if the LLeners have not disappeared, between the lines it's like that there's a sort of light regreat, of light sadness, of not completly achieved happiness, maybe due to: loss of money, loss of time, loss of health, loss of athletic abilities, loss of proportions, use of aesthetic strategies to disguise the new proportions ( before LL use of lifts/ after LL use of disguising strategies).
So, the original romantic gap between the perfect idea before LL and reality is still there: perhaps in the end nothing changes, you're just taller from the outside, but inside you are always the same, what you are.
"Nature has fram'd strange fellows in her time: some that will evermore peep through their eyes, and laugh, like parrots, at a bag-piper, and others of such vinegar aspect, that they'll not show their teeth in way of smile, though Nestor swear the jest to be laughable".
So, is LL worth?
Yes, if you're more or less like a midget very far from the average of your country (but once again it's all relative) or if the alternative of your actual state of mind is suicide, go for it; otherwise you could think one more time while wearing lifts:))
Once you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).
So, before doing LL, consider that your original perfect idea could not unfortunatly become your expected and waited for so long reality, but if the fate wants it, your perfect idea will be your perfect reality forever.
You have to offer a sacrifice to Zeus, so that the fate will be your knight in shining armour...

Edit Post

Every time there's a change you know exactly what you're leaving, but not exactly where you'll be, your new feelings. You have in mind just a very perfect idea, not an already touched and lived reality. Thanks to this forum all the LL candidates can touch the realities of the ones who have had their own individual and unrepeatable experiences reported in their own diaries.
But in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?). So, if the LLeners have not disappeared, between the lines it's like that there's a sort of light regreat, of light sadness, of not completly achieved happiness, maybe due to: loss of money, loss of time, loss of health, loss of athletic abilities, loss of proportions, use of aesthetic strategies to disguise the new proportions ( before LL use of lifts/ after LL use of disguising strategies).
So, the original romantic gap between the perfect idea before LL and reality is still there: perhaps in the end nothing changes, you're just taller from the outside, but inside you are always the same, what you are.
"Nature has fram'd strange fellows in her time: some that will evermore peep through their eyes, and laugh, like parrots, at a bag-piper, and others of such vinegar aspect, that they'll not show their teeth in way of smile, though Nestor swear the jest to be laughable".
So, is LL worth?
Yes, if you're more or less like a midget very far from the average of your country (but once again it's all relative) or if the alternative of your actual state of mind is suicide, go for it; otherwise you could think one more time while wearing lifts:))
Once you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).
So, before doing LL, consider that your original perfect idea could not unfortunatly become your expected and waited for so long reality, but if the fate wants it, your perfect idea will be your perfect reality forever.
You have to offer a sacrifice to Zeus, so that the fate will be your knight in shining armour...

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T

The Kaiser

Verified Member

Posts: 344

Joined: Sep 2016

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 3:34 am

#64

Quote from: apoxyomenos on November 10, 2016, 03:02:06 AMEvery time there's a change you know exactly what you're leaving, but not exactly where you'll be, your new feelings. You have in mind just a very perfect idea, not an already touched and lived reality. Thanks to this forum all the LL candidates can touch the realities of the ones who have had their own individual and unrepeatable experiences reported in their own diaries.
But in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?). So, if the LLeners have not disappeared, between the lines it's like that there's a sort of light regreat, of light sadness, of not completly achieved happiness, maybe due to: loss of money, loss of time, loss of health, loss of athletic abilities, loss of proportions, use of aesthetic strategies to disguise the new proportions ( before LL use of lifts/ after LL use of disguising strategies).
So, the original romantic gap between the perfect idea before LL and reality is still there: perhaps in the end nothing changes, you're just taller from the outside, but inside you are always the same, what you are.
"Nature has fram'd strange fellows in her time: some that will evermore peep through their eyes, and laugh, like parrots, at a bag-piper, and others of such vinegar aspect, that they'll not show their teeth in way of smile, though Nestor swear the jest to be laughable".
So, is LL worth?
Yes, if you're more or less like a midget very far from the average of your country (but once again it's all relative) or if the alternative of your actual state of mind is suicide, go for it; otherwise you could think one more time while wearing lifts:))
Once you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).
So, before doing LL, consider that your original perfect idea could not unfortunatly become your expected and waited for so long reality, but if the fate wants it, your perfect idea will be your perfect reality forever.
You have to offer a sacrifice to Zeus, so that the fate will be your knight in shining armour...

Once you completely healed there is no long term complication

Edit Post

Quote from: apoxyomenos on November 10, 2016, 03:02:06 AMEvery time there's a change you know exactly what you're leaving, but not exactly where you'll be, your new feelings. You have in mind just a very perfect idea, not an already touched and lived reality. Thanks to this forum all the LL candidates can touch the realities of the ones who have had their own individual and unrepeatable experiences reported in their own diaries.
But in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?). So, if the LLeners have not disappeared, between the lines it's like that there's a sort of light regreat, of light sadness, of not completly achieved happiness, maybe due to: loss of money, loss of time, loss of health, loss of athletic abilities, loss of proportions, use of aesthetic strategies to disguise the new proportions ( before LL use of lifts/ after LL use of disguising strategies).
So, the original romantic gap between the perfect idea before LL and reality is still there: perhaps in the end nothing changes, you're just taller from the outside, but inside you are always the same, what you are.
"Nature has fram'd strange fellows in her time: some that will evermore peep through their eyes, and laugh, like parrots, at a bag-piper, and others of such vinegar aspect, that they'll not show their teeth in way of smile, though Nestor swear the jest to be laughable".
So, is LL worth?
Yes, if you're more or less like a midget very far from the average of your country (but once again it's all relative) or if the alternative of your actual state of mind is suicide, go for it; otherwise you could think one more time while wearing lifts:))
Once you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).
So, before doing LL, consider that your original perfect idea could not unfortunatly become your expected and waited for so long reality, but if the fate wants it, your perfect idea will be your perfect reality forever.
You have to offer a sacrifice to Zeus, so that the fate will be your knight in shining armour...

Once you completely healed there is no long term complication

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P

Penguinn

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Posts: 55

Joined: Jul 2015

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 4:07 am

#65

Quote from: apoxyomenos on November 10, 2016, 03:02:06 AMOnce you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).

There've been no long term studies linking LL to athritis, and except maybe LON, how?

As for proportions, as long as you don't look horrendous, you're the only one that will mostly care about them. "We're all the heroes of our own stories" and most people are too busy minding their own business to care. But yeah, if you lengthen half a foot you're going to look bad.

I wouldn't look at LL as a means to go from 5' to 6' but a few inches gain depending on your proportions, time, money etc is rational. I've never seen a case with 2-3" of lengthening that made me go "There's definitely something wrong here" unless your segment is already unnaturally long and you lengthen that one. Even those inches can be life changing for those below average height.

QuoteBut in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?)

I made a poll about whether LL was worth it to those who did it: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=3741.msg57002#msg57002
Unless a lot of non-veterans have voted and ruined it, most people agree it was. The comments show them being happy with their LL. Unicorn faced complications, she's still happy. The boy doing his LL cheap in Vietnam is happy. I'm very glad I did this(I'm not done yet). These are just the recent diaries.

Edit Post

Quote from: apoxyomenos on November 10, 2016, 03:02:06 AMOnce you've undertaken this path, you can't go back, it's irreversible, you will abandon forever your golden section proportions (except for individual safe amounts) and when older you'll have more probabilities (expect for individual safe amounts) of facing eventual problems such as stasis eczema, arthritis, thrombosis... (source Wikipedia).

There've been no long term studies linking LL to athritis, and except maybe LON, how?

As for proportions, as long as you don't look horrendous, you're the only one that will mostly care about them. "We're all the heroes of our own stories" and most people are too busy minding their own business to care. But yeah, if you lengthen half a foot you're going to look bad.

I wouldn't look at LL as a means to go from 5' to 6' but a few inches gain depending on your proportions, time, money etc is rational. I've never seen a case with 2-3" of lengthening that made me go "There's definitely something wrong here" unless your segment is already unnaturally long and you lengthen that one. Even those inches can be life changing for those below average height.

QuoteBut in a lot of diaries in the old forum and in this one there is no big evidence of more happiness/self-confidence achieved (except maybe in a dozen of them: can you list these cases please?)

I made a poll about whether LL was worth it to those who did it: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=3741.msg57002#msg57002
Unless a lot of non-veterans have voted and ruined it, most people agree it was. The comments show them being happy with their LL. Unicorn faced complications, she's still happy. The boy doing his LL cheap in Vietnam is happy. I'm very glad I did this(I'm not done yet). These are just the recent diaries.

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J

jbc

Verified Member

Posts: 371

Joined: Jul 2016

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 8:04 am

#66

// breaking my self-imposed abstinence from this forum to hopefully share something useful

The most meaningful advice I got regarding percentages, centimeters, etc. was from Drs. Paley and Packer. They both said "how much you lengthen depends on how much your body is able to tolerate. We will not lengthen you more than your body can realistically achieve under medically safe parameters." (this takes into account the hard limit of 8cm of the Precise nail, obviously)

I don't know what all the parameters are, but I would suspect they involve loss of flexibility, loss of range of motion, nerve damage, bones not healing, etc.

During my conversation with Dr. Packer, she said some people come in and are absolutely fixated on the full 8 centimeters, and in some cases, some of those people have to make peace with the reality that it will just not happen for them.

So, neither percentages nor centimeters are most important. Safety is most important. You want to come out exactly like you came in health-wise, just taller (and, well, with a few somewhat noticeable scars - not much can be done about that except fading over time, creams, plastic surgery, if it's all that important).

I have a goal, but am not married to that goal. I don't want to do multiple surgeries, and I want as close to a full recovery as possible. It's already awesome that you can grow 3 inches after your growth plates close - even less than that, huge achievement for most people. Go in with safety as the #1 priority, come out healthy and enjoy your new height.

Here are, however, some things that _may_ help get you close to the maximum number:

1) Lots of flexibility. With all the doctors I've consulted, they all cited this as the # 1 success factor in getting the maximum amount of height from the procedure
2) A very regimented and methodical recovery plan, and extra stretching and PT.
- Dr. Packer really stressed this. Everything has to be done on the clock, daily, like the most punctual drill of your life.
3) Obviously, optimal health and lean muscle mass. No smoking, drinking, etc.
- Dr. Guichet is on to something when he says "prepare like an Olympic athlete for this". Bodies that are healthy and strong have much lower risk factors and chances of complication, and will generally recover faster.
- Drs. Paley and Packer reinforced the health part. They both said that in some cases, older patients recover faster than much younger ones due a much more optimal physical condition. Programdude's diary mentioned this several times, from his experience. They went as far as saying that even up to 50 years of age, age is not a factor for patients that are very healthy and in good shape.

Last - Yoga and especially Pilates. I've "grown" a full inch from both. Mind you, this is making the most of height I had but lost due to moderate scoliosis and, despite ridiculous flexibility and athleticism, poor posture and neck alignment. Probably also the case for most people, our posture sucks nowdays. So this gives you back something you probably already had, but 2.2 cms is nothing to laugh at and it's either less that you have to lengthen, or something extra to gain.

I should mention that this is the most I'll gain through Yoga and Pilates. I've straightened and realigned my spine as much as I can without surgery (and it's been close to a full recovery), but aside from not walking around with a stupid hip gait, I'm a bit taller, and that's pretty awesome. They'll also get you flexible if you're not, which will definitely help with the procedure.

Also, there are absolutely tall people that do this surgery. Dr. Paley operated on a 5'11" Dutch patient (he cites this on his website). Of the thousands of people that do this procedure (Precise alone apparently just hit 2,000 nails, with Dr. Paley having inserted 350 of them, there are only a handful of diaries, and the majority are on this site). I won't reveal my height - many have asked - but I cannot be considered short (I also cannot be considered tall, I am not 6'), and I'll have this surgery in less than 3 months.

HTH. Focus on going in as flexible and as healthy as you can, and always keep safety first.

--jbc

Edit Post

// breaking my self-imposed abstinence from this forum to hopefully share something useful

The most meaningful advice I got regarding percentages, centimeters, etc. was from Drs. Paley and Packer. They both said "how much you lengthen depends on how much your body is able to tolerate. We will not lengthen you more than your body can realistically achieve under medically safe parameters." (this takes into account the hard limit of 8cm of the Precise nail, obviously)

I don't know what all the parameters are, but I would suspect they involve loss of flexibility, loss of range of motion, nerve damage, bones not healing, etc.

During my conversation with Dr. Packer, she said some people come in and are absolutely fixated on the full 8 centimeters, and in some cases, some of those people have to make peace with the reality that it will just not happen for them.

So, neither percentages nor centimeters are most important. Safety is most important. You want to come out exactly like you came in health-wise, just taller (and, well, with a few somewhat noticeable scars - not much can be done about that except fading over time, creams, plastic surgery, if it's all that important).

I have a goal, but am not married to that goal. I don't want to do multiple surgeries, and I want as close to a full recovery as possible. It's already awesome that you can grow 3 inches after your growth plates close - even less than that, huge achievement for most people. Go in with safety as the #1 priority, come out healthy and enjoy your new height.

Here are, however, some things that _may_ help get you close to the maximum number:

1) Lots of flexibility. With all the doctors I've consulted, they all cited this as the # 1 success factor in getting the maximum amount of height from the procedure
2) A very regimented and methodical recovery plan, and extra stretching and PT.
- Dr. Packer really stressed this. Everything has to be done on the clock, daily, like the most punctual drill of your life.
3) Obviously, optimal health and lean muscle mass. No smoking, drinking, etc.
- Dr. Guichet is on to something when he says "prepare like an Olympic athlete for this". Bodies that are healthy and strong have much lower risk factors and chances of complication, and will generally recover faster.
- Drs. Paley and Packer reinforced the health part. They both said that in some cases, older patients recover faster than much younger ones due a much more optimal physical condition. Programdude's diary mentioned this several times, from his experience. They went as far as saying that even up to 50 years of age, age is not a factor for patients that are very healthy and in good shape.

Last - Yoga and especially Pilates. I've "grown" a full inch from both. Mind you, this is making the most of height I had but lost due to moderate scoliosis and, despite ridiculous flexibility and athleticism, poor posture and neck alignment. Probably also the case for most people, our posture sucks nowdays. So this gives you back something you probably already had, but 2.2 cms is nothing to laugh at and it's either less that you have to lengthen, or something extra to gain.

I should mention that this is the most I'll gain through Yoga and Pilates. I've straightened and realigned my spine as much as I can without surgery (and it's been close to a full recovery), but aside from not walking around with a stupid hip gait, I'm a bit taller, and that's pretty awesome. They'll also get you flexible if you're not, which will definitely help with the procedure.

Also, there are absolutely tall people that do this surgery. Dr. Paley operated on a 5'11" Dutch patient (he cites this on his website). Of the thousands of people that do this procedure (Precise alone apparently just hit 2,000 nails, with Dr. Paley having inserted 350 of them, there are only a handful of diaries, and the majority are on this site). I won't reveal my height - many have asked - but I cannot be considered short (I also cannot be considered tall, I am not 6'), and I'll have this surgery in less than 3 months.

HTH. Focus on going in as flexible and as healthy as you can, and always keep safety first.

--jbc

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I

IwannaBeTaller

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Posts: 124

Joined: Jun 2014

Posted on Nov 10, 2016, 5:35 pm

#67

Quote from: Bigpoppapump on November 10, 2016, 12:01:30 AMHope is fine so long as you are not being delusional. There's a huge difference between a positive attitude and a delusional one. Most of the people on this board suffer from the latter!

I get it being short fking sucks it wrecks our lives and we have no control over it however pushing yourself to do 'ideal' amounts or trying to get your money's worth for what you paid is going to fk a lot of people up.

This surgery I'm sure has helped a lot of people the ones who did safe amounts and listened to their bodies however I'm sure there are numerous folk out there this surgery has messed up badly.

This surgery is not your knight in shining armour that a lot of folk on here think it is

Of course if you come really close to the actual surgery, you have to consider all possible outcomes, and prepare for a painful recovery time. But if your surgery is still years away, and you struggle from day to day, because you are constantly towered by taller dudes and you feel like trash, using the thought that "one day, I'll do LL and easily be 6-7 cms (or a similar number) taller, it won't be easy, but I will prepare for my best, manage the recovery, and then I'll finally have more of the height I've always wanted" as your distant hope to cure your depression, is perfectly fine.

Not to mention the possible advancement of lengthening techniques and new technologies like stem cells, nanobots, synthetic growth plates. These can also be great spots of hope, even if they're 120 years away, because future generations won't have to suffer the height neurosis I have to.

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C

crimsontide

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Posts: 394

Joined: Jan 2014

Posted on Nov 16, 2016, 1:49 pm

#68

You should not get your info from an online website run by non Drs

So even though my diary is real, you can NOT trust any diary on here, including mine

This forum still has Suhas Shah up as a Dr. I can tell you for a fact that Dr shah would never be allowed to practice in the United States, and his clinic would never pass any state inspection

There are patients on here that still can not walk 1-2 years after surgery. When I say can not walk, I'm not talking about a case such as myself, where I can't walk exactly as I did in the past. I mean they can not walk at all.
.
Guys, do not get this surgery. If you wanna talk to a reasonable person, I suggest listening to Alu

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M

midnightninja

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Posts: 429

Joined: Oct 2016

Posted on Nov 16, 2016, 10:08 pm

#69

You all need to ignore Crimson.

Crimson lengthened 7+cm in ONE SEGMENT.
He went to a bad doctor and he also did barely any physical therapy during his lengthening.

This surgery should be done at the best doctors, while in top pre-op physical shape.
You cannot blame and tell other people to rethink this surgery when you yourself did not think before getting it done. 7+cm in one segment is stupid and ridiculous especially in the tibias which we know the limit should be 4cm. You have no one but yourself to blame and should stop the bias posting.

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O

onemorefoot

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Posts: 332

Joined: Jul 2016

Posted on Nov 16, 2016, 10:22 pm

#70

I think the limit for tibias is 6cm, after that is is dangerous.

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