Permanent knee pain, is LATN/LON really worth it?

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Posted on May 15, 2014, 3:25 am

#31

1. Does scar surgery still make a significant difference even if you get internal femurs?

2. So... they cut the scar out of your body? Doesn' that create another scar? I don't understand.

3. What are some bad things that can happen if you leave the nail in you. Will leaving it in there for many years make it dangerous to take out later in life if it causes problems?

4. What other costs of the operation people might not think of? I never thought of rogaine/propecia until hair started receding. Never thought of scar surgery until I read this forum. Never thought of leg muscle release or exogen or any of that..

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M

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Posted on May 15, 2014, 3:43 am

#32

1. No, with internal femurs the scar surgery is pretty unnecessary because there's minimal scarring.
2. They cut a big, ugly scar out of your body and sew it up so you have a little white line instead.
3. I'm not aware of anything bad that can happen from leaving the nail in there. Most western doctors think it's safer to leave the nail in than to have a surgery to remove it. If, for some reason, you do need to take it out later in life, then it is a little more risky just like all surgeries on older people get riskier.
4. I haven't encountered any other unexpected costs that haven't already been mentioned on the forum.

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M

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Posted on May 15, 2014, 3:43 am

#33

1. No, with internal femurs the scar surgery is pretty unnecessary because there's minimal scarring.
2. They cut a big, ugly scar out of your body and sew it up so you have a little white line instead.
3. I'm not aware of anything bad that can happen from leaving the nail in there. Most western doctors think it's safer to leave the nail in than to have a surgery to remove it. If, for some reason, you do need to take it out later in life, then it is a little more risky just like all surgeries on older people get riskier.
4. I haven't encountered any other unexpected costs that haven't already been mentioned on the forum.

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Moubgf

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Posted on May 15, 2014, 3:52 am

#34

Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on May 15, 2014, 03:43:37 AM1. No, with internal femurs the scar surgery is pretty unnecessary because there's minimal scarring.
2. They cut a big, ugly scar out of your body and sew it up so you have a little white line instead.
3. I'm not aware of anything bad that can happen from leaving the nail in there. Most western doctors think it's safer to leave the nail in than to have a surgery to remove it. If, for some reason, you do need to take it out later in life, then it is a little more risky just like all surgeries on older people get riskier.
4. I haven't encountered any other unexpected costs that haven't already been mentioned on the forum.

Do you notice the weight from the rod inside your leg? what is the weight of it?

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M

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Posted on May 15, 2014, 4:11 am

#35

It was pretty much negligible.

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M

MAN-OF-STEEL

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Posted on May 17, 2014, 3:46 am

#36

I'm still not fully convinced that every single person will have permanent pain, but then again who knows as this is a niche surgery

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IamAndrew

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Posted on May 18, 2014, 4:52 am

#37

Medium Drink of Water, lots of questions for you!

You said you would choose this doctor if you had to do it over again (and congrats on your successful journey)?
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=373.0
But why didn't you choose to go with him first, is it because you wanted over his limit of 7.5 cm?

And for 6 cm, would you do external only with Mitkovic's monorails? No risk of knee damage and the theorized muscle damage from Ilizarov Frames wouldn't be as much an issue, correct?

Would that mean 6 months of wearing his monorail devices (1 month per cm)? Is the recovery time (e.g. walking normally) with monorails relatively fast compared to other surgeries?

How come Smallguy and RGkey, both veteran LLers, said they would not do more than 5 CM with his devices but Mitkovic says he can do up to 7.5? And would 6 really be too much? How much of a strain difference can there really be between 5 and 6?

I see Jungle has some bad Ballerina foot in that photo - but isn't PT mostly the job of the patient? And how many CM did Jungle do? Does Jungle still post here or did he leave a diary somewhere?

I really like this doctor and his simple but effective device. It seems very good for long-term health but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

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W

Wannabegiant

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Posted on May 18, 2014, 8:21 am

#38

Quote from: IamAndrew on May 18, 2014, 04:52:20 AMMedium Drink of Water, lots of questions for you!

You said you would choose this doctor if you had to do it over again (and congrats on your successful journey)?
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=373.0
But why didn't you choose to go with him first, is it because you wanted over his limit of 7.5 cm?

And for 6 cm, would you do external only with Mitkovic's monorails? No risk of knee damage and the theorized muscle damage from Ilizarov Frames wouldn't be as much an issue, correct?

Would that mean 6 months of wearing his monorail devices (1 month per cm)? Is the recovery time (e.g. walking normally) with monorails relatively fast compared to other surgeries?

How come Smallguy and RGkey, both veteran LLers, said they would not do more than 5 CM with his devices but Mitkovic says he can do up to 7.5? And would 6 really be too much? How much of a strain difference can there really be between 5 and 6?

I see Jungle has some bad Ballerina foot in that photo - but isn't PT mostly the job of the patient? And how many CM did Jungle do? Does Jungle still post here or did he leave a diary somewhere?

I really like this doctor and his simple but effective device. It seems very good for long-term health but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

monorail really isnt better for long term health or preventing muscle damage. there are less scars because of less pins, but those pins dont touch the muscles anyway. And more pins of Ilizarov means more stability.

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M

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Posted on May 18, 2014, 6:32 pm

#39

Quote from: IamAndrew on May 18, 2014, 04:52:20 AMMedium Drink of Water, lots of questions for you!

You said you would choose this doctor if you had to do it over again (and congrats on your successful journey)?
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=373.0
But why didn't you choose to go with him first, is it because you wanted over his limit of 7.5 cm?

And for 6 cm, would you do external only with Mitkovic's monorails? No risk of knee damage and the theorized muscle damage from Ilizarov Frames wouldn't be as much an issue, correct?

Would that mean 6 months of wearing his monorail devices (1 month per cm)? Is the recovery time (e.g. walking normally) with monorails relatively fast compared to other surgeries?

How come Smallguy and RGkey, both veteran LLers, said they would not do more than 5 CM with his devices but Mitkovic says he can do up to 7.5? And would 6 really be too much? How much of a strain difference can there really be between 5 and 6?

I see Jungle has some bad Ballerina foot in that photo - but isn't PT mostly the job of the patient? And how many CM did Jungle do? Does Jungle still post here or did he leave a diary somewhere?

I really like this doctor and his simple but effective device. It seems very good for long-term health but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

I did go to him first, but there was a problem getting my psychiatric records from America. He wouldn't do the surgery without approval from a Serbian psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist wouldn't approve me for surgery without seeing my records. Then he kind of abandoned me once he'd decided he'd done all he was going to do for me. I thought he didn't handle the situation well, so instead of getting my records myself and going back to him I decided on China, which had been a very close 2nd choice from the start.

Dr. Mitkovic doesn't have a 6cm limit. I was going to do 3 inches on tibiae there too. What you said is exactly why I would've chosen him; it was the least invasive method of LL available. My original plane tickets were 9 months apart just to be on the safe side. Recovery time is hard to predict since it varies so much from patient to patient.

I don't know why those LLers wouldn't do 7.5cm with monorails. The devices are legit and get the job done, and it's a reasonably safe amount to lengthen. PT was the responsibility of the patient, but regarding Jungle, he started out 5'2 and lengthened 5 inches total (though I don't remember how he divided it between tibia and femur). So he really lengthened a lot for someone his size. He never posted here; he posted on old forum a long time ago and has three diaries in the Other Doctors Diaries section.

Edit Post

Quote from: IamAndrew on May 18, 2014, 04:52:20 AMMedium Drink of Water, lots of questions for you!

You said you would choose this doctor if you had to do it over again (and congrats on your successful journey)?
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=373.0
But why didn't you choose to go with him first, is it because you wanted over his limit of 7.5 cm?

And for 6 cm, would you do external only with Mitkovic's monorails? No risk of knee damage and the theorized muscle damage from Ilizarov Frames wouldn't be as much an issue, correct?

Would that mean 6 months of wearing his monorail devices (1 month per cm)? Is the recovery time (e.g. walking normally) with monorails relatively fast compared to other surgeries?

How come Smallguy and RGkey, both veteran LLers, said they would not do more than 5 CM with his devices but Mitkovic says he can do up to 7.5? And would 6 really be too much? How much of a strain difference can there really be between 5 and 6?

I see Jungle has some bad Ballerina foot in that photo - but isn't PT mostly the job of the patient? And how many CM did Jungle do? Does Jungle still post here or did he leave a diary somewhere?

I really like this doctor and his simple but effective device. It seems very good for long-term health but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.

I did go to him first, but there was a problem getting my psychiatric records from America. He wouldn't do the surgery without approval from a Serbian psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist wouldn't approve me for surgery without seeing my records. Then he kind of abandoned me once he'd decided he'd done all he was going to do for me. I thought he didn't handle the situation well, so instead of getting my records myself and going back to him I decided on China, which had been a very close 2nd choice from the start.

Dr. Mitkovic doesn't have a 6cm limit. I was going to do 3 inches on tibiae there too. What you said is exactly why I would've chosen him; it was the least invasive method of LL available. My original plane tickets were 9 months apart just to be on the safe side. Recovery time is hard to predict since it varies so much from patient to patient.

I don't know why those LLers wouldn't do 7.5cm with monorails. The devices are legit and get the job done, and it's a reasonably safe amount to lengthen. PT was the responsibility of the patient, but regarding Jungle, he started out 5'2 and lengthened 5 inches total (though I don't remember how he divided it between tibia and femur). So he really lengthened a lot for someone his size. He never posted here; he posted on old forum a long time ago and has three diaries in the Other Doctors Diaries section.

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IamAndrew

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Posted on May 18, 2014, 10:26 pm

#40

If you never seen a psychiatrist before going to Serbia would that be an issue?

Thanks for referencing Jungle's diary. Here it is for those interested.
Jungle - External Tibias - Doctor Withheld - 2007 - Jungle's Workout Routine! (http/www edit)

Yeah, I think he only had a ballerina problem because his starting tibia length was too low (5'2" man) for a 6.5 cm gain desired at a 1mm/daily rate. It took him 10 weeks to get to 6 CM which I think is pretty good and he never complained about pain at all. His rate of recovery seems decent too considering be probably went over 20% tibia length. Here he says:

"Finally, after 4 months I started to walk again without support. Still walking like a penquin but i feel really good to walk without supports, not even holding a wall. However, i can only walk about a few metres without supports. And at the moment i can walk about one hour non-stop with a walker and i walk 2 hours total in a day for my exercise routine. My legs would lost power completely if i walk more than one an hour"

Is that a relatively fast rate of recovery compared to other methods?

This doctor looks good imo. Idk why people are scared of his devices compared to other externals. WannaBeGiant, there is only 1 surgery required with those monorails, so less trauma to bones, and they are not as inconvenient as Russian or Chinese externals to wear for a few months. You would still not consider them? Sure more pins = more stability, but if you look at the photos in that link there doesn't look like there's much risk of the device being destabilized or damaged anyway since it only covers 1 side of the leg instead of encompassing it. He can even sit on the floor with them.

Edit Post

If you never seen a psychiatrist before going to Serbia would that be an issue?

Thanks for referencing Jungle's diary. Here it is for those interested.
Jungle - External Tibias - Doctor Withheld - 2007 - Jungle's Workout Routine! (http/www edit)

Yeah, I think he only had a ballerina problem because his starting tibia length was too low (5'2" man) for a 6.5 cm gain desired at a 1mm/daily rate. It took him 10 weeks to get to 6 CM which I think is pretty good and he never complained about pain at all. His rate of recovery seems decent too considering be probably went over 20% tibia length. Here he says:

"Finally, after 4 months I started to walk again without support. Still walking like a penquin but i feel really good to walk without supports, not even holding a wall. However, i can only walk about a few metres without supports. And at the moment i can walk about one hour non-stop with a walker and i walk 2 hours total in a day for my exercise routine. My legs would lost power completely if i walk more than one an hour"

Is that a relatively fast rate of recovery compared to other methods?

This doctor looks good imo. Idk why people are scared of his devices compared to other externals. WannaBeGiant, there is only 1 surgery required with those monorails, so less trauma to bones, and they are not as inconvenient as Russian or Chinese externals to wear for a few months. You would still not consider them? Sure more pins = more stability, but if you look at the photos in that link there doesn't look like there's much risk of the device being destabilized or damaged anyway since it only covers 1 side of the leg instead of encompassing it. He can even sit on the floor with them.

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Permanent knee pain, is LATN/LON really worth it?

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