I wrote a response on this article regarding knee pain: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24774#new
But I thought this would be a good area to post it as well, and hopefully it will help people make better, more informed decisions regarding their limb lengthening journey and their fate:
Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on January 08, 2015, 06:48:19 PM1. Pain when kneeling on a hard surface, occasional discomfort when walking. Nothing at all when standing still.
2. None, really. I can still kneel.
3. 3-4 when kneeling on a hard surface, 1 occasionally when walking.
I get pain too when kneeling on hard surfaces and I never had anything inserted into my knees. I also feel discomfort when walking for long periods of time, as well my feet ache (like normal people do)...All of these "issues" were always there, even before my Femur lengthening.
I think most normal, healthy people, if they had to kneel or "walk on their knees" on a hard surface will get some type of pain or discomfort.
On a side note: I also receive discomfort when using my Elbows to crawl on a hard surface as well even though I never receive shoulder surgery.
That is why we cannot be so rash to form conclusions based on small sample sizes.
Hence, why, for example, in Japanese or Asian cultures where is kneeling is customary, people are aware of the discomfort of kneeling on hard surfaces and oftentimes use pillows, mats, or other cushions when kneeling to give comfort.
http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481
http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481
The most important thing is as you have no pain or discomfort when functioning in daily life such as standing or walking, then one could say that your knees are relatively healthy and is in line with the general population.
For example, I read many articles of people who never underwent LL but still get knee pain for a variety of other reasons such as being overweight, being inactive, sports injuries, arthritis, diseases, Old Age and more.
I also read and personally witnessed people who were involved in traumatic injuries which required Metal rods; many of them had little to no issues whereas others complained about pain while being mobile and functioning in daily life. Whether that pain is because of their accident trauma or because of the IM Nail insertion is debatable.
I work in the medical field and see many cases of people who had IM Nail inserted through their knees and they are functioning 100% fine, lead an active lifestyle, and can do everything they usually do.
Also, I have personally witnessed other people who have never done LL still get knee pains even though there was no insertion trauma. Generally, they can barely stand for long periods and walk with pain. Some of these people cannot function in day to day life without pain or disability.
They have other issues which has caused knee pains such as being overweight, weak or unbalanced leg muscles, being inactive, unhealthy lifestyle, arthritis, diseases, from Old Age, and more.
This is a far cry from the "Superman" MDOW who can function in everyday life, and in his words,"feels stronger after my limb lengthening then before" and could lift more after his Limb lengthening then before it.
Finally, I have had the fortune to communicate with old patients who underwent Limb Lengthening with Rod Insertion (LON And LATN) and they have told me they experienced nothing negative longterm and fully recovered...even the Indian Doctor ones like sarin. Look at people like Smallguy, Captain America, or Calic.
So essentially saying, medical and biological responses are incredibly complex with many variables from a person's history, their bodies ability to heal, or many other countless variables so we cannot jump into rash final conclusions based on a very small sample size of a few active forum members.
Also, remember that the proper insertion of IM Nall for healthy patients who undergo Limb Lengthening in controlled way is different from the patients who experienced trauma, accidents or injuries and require emergency IM Nail insertion on top of their injuries and other variables.
Remember, correlation does not equal causation.
Quote from: History101 on January 12, 2015, 07:09:40 AMI wrote a response on this article regarding knee pain: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24774#new
But I thought this would be a good area to post it as well, and hopefully it will help people make better, more informed decisions regarding their limb lengthening journey and their fate:
I get pain too when kneeling on hard surfaces and I never had anything inserted into my knees. I also feel discomfort when walking for long periods of time, as well my feet ache (like normal people do)...All of these "issues" were always there, even before my Femur lengthening.
I think most normal, healthy people, if they had to kneel or "walk on their knees" on a hard surface will get some type of pain or discomfort.
On a side note: I also receive discomfort when using my Elbows to crawl on a hard surface as well even though I never receive shoulder surgery.
That is why we cannot be so rash to form conclusions based on small sample sizes.
Hence, why, for example, in Japanese or Asian cultures where is kneeling is customary, people are aware of the discomfort of kneeling on hard surfaces and oftentimes use pillows, mats, or other cushions when kneeling to give comfort.
http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481
http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/japanese-couple-kneeling-on-a-tatami-mat-in-traditional-way-18936481
The most important thing is as you have no pain or discomfort when functioning in daily life such as standing or walking, then one could say that your knees are relatively healthy and is in line with the general population.
For example, I read many articles of people who never underwent LL but still get knee pain for a variety of other reasons such as being overweight, being inactive, sports injuries, arthritis, diseases, Old Age and more.
I also read and personally witnessed people who were involved in traumatic injuries which required Metal rods; many of them had little to no issues whereas others complained about pain while being mobile and functioning in daily life. Whether that pain is because of their accident trauma or because of the IM Nail insertion is debatable.
I work in the medical field and see many cases of people who had IM Nail inserted through their knees and they are functioning 100% fine, lead an active lifestyle, and can do everything they usually do.
Also, I have personally witnessed other people who have never done LL still get knee pains even though there was no insertion trauma. Generally, they can barely stand for long periods and walk with pain. Some of these people cannot function in day to day life without pain or disability.
They have other issues which has caused knee pains such as being overweight, weak or unbalanced leg muscles, being inactive, unhealthy lifestyle, arthritis, diseases, from Old Age, and more.
This is a far cry from the "Superman" MDOW who can function in everyday life, and in his words,"feels stronger after my limb lengthening then before" and could lift more after his Limb lengthening then before it.
Finally, I have had the fortune to communicate with old patients who underwent Limb Lengthening with Rod Insertion (LON And LATN) and they have told me they experienced nothing negative longterm and fully recovered...even the Indian Doctor ones like sarin. Look at people like Smallguy, Captain America, or Calic.
So essentially saying, medical and biological responses are incredibly complex with many variables from a person's history, their bodies ability to heal, or many other countless variables so we cannot jump into rash final conclusions based on a very small sample size of a few active forum members.
Also, remember that the proper insertion of IM Nall for healthy patients who undergo Limb Lengthening in controlled way is different from the patients who experienced trauma, accidents or injuries and require emergency IM Nail insertion on top of their injuries and other variables.
Remember, correlation does not equal causation.
why is he on the floor crawling in the first place? have not done it before the surgery and sure as hell wont become sports magasine #1 loverboy after.
Aslong as i can walk down to the supermarket with my girlfriend and take a ice cream. Or go to a festival and watch some shows i am all good.
Think twice about this for cosmetic purposes. I've been witness of disastrous outcomes in otherwise perfectly healthy patients. This is not correct.
Such as what?
Quote from: medcare on January 20, 2015, 03:50:50 PMThink twice about this for cosmetic purposes. I've been witness of disastrous outcomes in otherwise perfectly healthy patients. This is not correct.
i didnt read what you said yet, please repeat
Quote from: musicmaker on February 10, 2015, 05:43:27 PMMedcare, you’re usually very rude, but in this thread you’re telling the truth. Sometimes LL leads to disastrous outcomes, and sometimes these disasters are unavoidable, even if you’re operated by the best surgeons in the world. Fat embolism, for example, isn’t a theoretical complication, but a very real risk which is usually silenced in the forum and however happens. And there are patients from the best surgeons in the world who die from it. I’ve been told this by a very reliable source from a medical point of view.
Can we do anything to avoid these risks? Sometimes it's imposible to avoid these disastrous outcomes, but you can minimize complications by choosing a good doctor, who stays in the safe zone and respects the protocols. It’s better not doing more than one segment at once and even avoiding CLL if possible. Risks are high and real out there.
Do you happen to have any data on how often fat embolism happens?
Only things about embolism death I found so far:
[Fat embolism during limb lengthening with a centromedullary nail: three cases].
Blondel B1, Violas P, Launay F, Sales de Gauzy J, Kohler R, Jouve JL, Bollini G.
Several methods are available for progressive limb lengthening, including centromedullary nailing, external fixation, or a combination. Each technique has its own advantages and drawbacks. In trauma victims, use of centromedullary nailing is associated with potentially fatal fat embolism. This fatal outcome might also occur during limb lengthening, particularly in bilateral procedures. To our knowledge, fat embolism has not been reported with the use of centromedullary nail for limb lengthening. This was a multicentric study of three cases of fat embolism, including one fatal outcome. In all, 36 centromedullary lengthening nails were inserted in the three centers before these acute episodes. The first two cases occurred during single-phase bilateral procedures, the third during unilateral lengthening.
Fat embolism could result from several factors, as reported in the literature. While the bilateral nature of the procedure has been incriminated, the observation of an embolism during a unilateral procedure suggests other factors may be involved. Considerable increase in endomedullary pressure during reaming and insertion of the nail has been demonstrated. At the same time, there is the question as to whether the reduction of the diminution of medullary pressure by corticotomy would be an efficient way of reducing the risk of fat embolism. Based on the analysis of our three cases, we suggest that the best way to avoid fat embolism might be to drill several holes within the area of the osteotomy before reaming, in order to reduce endomedullary pressure. This can be achieved via a short skin incision, sparing the periosteum before low energy osteotomy. Since applying this protocol, the three centers have implanted 17 lengthening nails, without a single case of fat embolism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18774027
Strategy in the surgical treatment of achondroplasia: techniques applied in the Department of Orthopedics and Traumatology Hospital of Lecco
M.A. Catagni, F. Guerreschi, L. Lovisetti
Between 1982 and 2007, 128 patients with achondroplasia were treated in the Lecco Hospital. 100 of these were treated with sequential bilateral limb lengthening and seven with crossed lengthening. The average tibial lengthening was 14.1 centimeters (range: 6 to 19 cm). The average femoral lengthening was 9.8 centimeters (range: 8 to 12 cm), and the average humeral lengthening 8.3 centimeters (range: 8 to 12 cm).
...
The complications were classified as minor, moderate, and severe. Minor complications were those which required only modification of the apparatus during treatment. Twenty-three percent of the lengthenings required some modification of the device during treatment. Moderate complications were those which required additional procedures during lengthening. Forty-two percent of patients fell into this category. Finally, severe complications were those which required another surgery following treatment or had lasting sequelae of the treatment. Twenty-one percent of patients fell into this category. The most common complication was equinus contractures of the ankle which required treatment by tendoachilles lengthening. Two pulmonary emboli were sustained following percutaneous tendo-achilles lengthening. One patient died as a result of this complication.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10261-009-0032-9
^^ Actually there are ways you can prevent Fat embolism .
This is what Dr Dror Paley have wrote about it :
http://www.screencast.com/t/aRmHCK8m
So you wont be able doing sports after doing this?!
This made me so scared.
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