Quote from: Sorcerer on August 19, 2023, 08:01:42 PMGetting up to an average height from 5'3 will def benefit you significantly.
I am 162 and I will do this surgery in Paley's next yr.
We might be there at the same time. You doing Femurs or Tibia or quad?
Quote from: TheDream on August 18, 2023, 09:17:28 PM
As to why this happens to some and not others, I suspect the key here is the way we process experiences related to height. The two extremes of processing experiences like this is 1. internalizing them, and 2. externalizing them.
What does this mean exactly?
Well take an extreme example of someone who cannot handle criticism. If you tell the person that they are being unpleasant right now, they react by yelling and insulting you doing so to no end in sight. Now imagine they always do this.
What their brain is doing is taking the hot ball of emotion that comes from the criticism, and immediately firing that energy out of their system, and back onto you.
Now take the opposite example. Someone who immediately shuts down due to shame, and absorbs the entire load of negative emotions from the criticism, and is overly embarrassed about it. Basically letting the bad emotion rattle their entire skeleton to the core.
If we take a look at height. These two examples could be shown to be one short man being overly aggressive when presented with a bad emotion due to their short height. This is a classic stereotype known as Napoleon syndrome. Often portrayed in the media when it comes to short men.
The opposite would then be one who looks down defeated, and absorbs the bad emotion as shame of their body, and being inadequate as a man, thus internalizing it.
I suspect that most if not all of us here are part of the internalized group. That is, we have internalized the idea of being inadequate as men due to height.
In todays society we are bombarded with this view 24/7. In movies, on social media, on dating apps etc. As other people are also bombarded with this view you get a feedback loop where they will also give you reinforcement that this is in fact true.
Therefore, if you have absorbed and internalized this view, that you are inadequete as a man, then as time goes on, you will feel this more and more as you are exposed to the feedback loop.
If you then mix in a personality that is hellbent on fixing problems, and finding a way, relentlessly, you end up with a prospective LL’er.
So as to why other short men don’t feel this way I suspect the following:
1. A psychological defense mechanism that protected them better against absorbing the view that short men are inadequate.
This could be a healthy one, like maybe they are good at a physical sport or martial art, so they are relaxed and confident that their short body is very powerful, and maybe they have agility or technique that means they know they are to be respected. Or simply an externalizing defense mechanism that makes them lash out and just never absorbing any bad view on themselves.
Or perhaps they were just exposed to less bad height related incidents.
2. A different personality
It could be that a lot of short men, perhaps a large majority, have internalized the view that they are inadequate due to their height, but they simply dont have the personality trait of being hellbent on solving such a problem no matter what and simply wont quit.
Mix in an internalized view of short men being inadequete + a persistent problem solving personality and you get a prospective LL’er.
Very insightful post, thanks for your input. What you say here makes total sense, and I suppose the natural following question is: is there a cure besides physically altering your body? Would such an all-consuming preoccupation with height be classified as body dysmorphia? And if so, shouldn't that be treated with psychotherapy?
Of course, psychotherapy for helping with this issue is said to very rarely work; I would expect this has a lot to do with the fact that, as you say, the idea of this being a legitimate issue to be concerned about is routinely ingrained in us by society. If that's the case, is it really body dysmorphia? Because all you're doing is identifying an issue society does deem to be important that you do not possess, where dysmorphia suggests your perceived woes are your mind's fiction.
Quote from: jerrytheman on August 19, 2023, 01:31:10 AMMost people don't know about the surgery. If you're 5'1 but you don't know about a way to get taller, then your brain will accept it. Because there's nothing you can do about it. Or if your financials isnt there, or you just dont have 8 months to recover because maybe you have a family or whatever.
But then when you know about the surgery and the possibilities. And you can afford it, and take the time you need to recover. Then this thought of, you CAN be taller will live rent free in your mind until you do it.
That's very true. In fact, due to work commitments when I found out about this surgery, I too put it out of my mind as a total infeasibility. Now that it's a possibility, the idea of it occupies my mind daily. Cheers.
Quote from: NailedLegs on August 19, 2023, 03:14:21 AMNobody can answer these questions except for you, because it is truly a personal decision. Your mental state and way of thinking is unique, and it's impossible to give you a blanket statement. You are right about being 5'8.5" is sorta on the line of "sorta short, but sorta not really". The empirical evidence shows that there is benefit going from below 5'10", to 5'10". And there is benefit going even up to 6'0", but not much benefit after:
Ask yourself, "If I get this surgery, will my quality of life and mental state improve enough to outweigh the time, money, and pain I'd have to subject myself too?"
Spend some time to really think about that. A few days, weeks, even months! Because height is relative, the taller you are, the less benefit there will be, but clearly there is still benefit from growing beyond 5'8.5".
Great post, thank you.
Quote from: GrowGrow123 on August 19, 2023, 03:54:40 AMI used to be 5' 9' (similar height to you). I first read about limb lengthening surgery during the pandemic.
My first thought was, surely this must be unsafe! Then I did research and discovered that it's quite safe if done with a reputable surgeon.
My next thought was, surely this must permanently affect your ability to do things! Then I did research and discovered that people make pretty close to full recovery and can still do sports and go to the gym after recovering.
My next thought was, surely this must make your proportions look alien-like! Then I did research and discovered that pretty much everyone looks pretty normal afterwards.
My next thought was, surely this must be something I can't possibly afford anyways! Then I did research and discovered that I could definitely afford this without problem and even work remotely throughout the process.
At that point, the idea of this surgery just kind of lived rent-free in my head for a long time and I had no real mental objection to why I shouldn't do it. I wanted to come up with a reason, but I couldn't. I am decently fit and take care of myself and this mental image of what I could be as a "tall" person on top of that became difficult to shake.
I had my consultation in late January and got the surgery done in mid March. 5 months later, I am now over 6ft tall and am able to walk without issue (although the gait still isn't quite perfect). I love the way I look in the mirror, I feel more confident in social settings, and am overall quite happy to have done it.
I don't say this to try to encourage you to do this. On the contrary, if you can go on with your life without doing it, then you probably should, lol. This process is painful, brutal, and mentally draining. It's not for the faint of heart. But it is a rewarding experience for those willing to go through all the hardship to get to the end.
Interesting insight, thanks for sharing your experience.
Quote from: Kangarooboy on August 19, 2023, 05:08:26 AMI recently completed LL surgery and achieved a 7cm increase in height. Though I'm currently in the recovery phase and my back and legs are yet to fully regain their strength, the transformation from approximately 5'7 to 5'10/5'11 is already evident. What's even more satisfying is the positive feedback I'm receiving from strangers. This early affirmation makes the entire journey feel incredibly worthwhile. Additionally, the newfound sense of confidence and masculinity is an unexpected but welcome bonus. It's worth noting that I was contemplating this surgery for nearly two years has taught me the value of pursuing change when your sitting on the fence. Embracing change/hardship often leads to fewer regrets down the road. I had all the same questions as growgrow in the beginning but after hours of research and months of thinking I decided that it's the right decsion.
Thanks for the insight, congrats on the great results!
Quote from: DanishViking on August 19, 2023, 06:44:58 AMI agree with others and how you fell however imagine if you where 5'5 1/2 like me how it much feel? XD But of course you can always find someone worse off than yourself and that doesn't mean your problem isn't serious. If you constantly think about it, then do it!! But if it's like a once a month thing seing a guy taller than you and then that reminding you that it would be cool to be a little taller then I would say no. Not worth all that invasive surgery if it ain't a BIG problem for someone.
True, guess you just have to weigh it up carefully at the end of the day. Cheers.
Quote from: lessthanavg8300 on August 19, 2023, 06:50:48 PMHow old are you? This process is going to take a couple years from surgery to nails out and dealing with scars. So just be prepared to sacrifice that part of your life. That means no walking normal for some of this time, no sports, partners will see scars, etc.
I'm 26. Luckily I work from home and have everything I need around me. The only sacrifice besides those associated with the actual surgery is social. Cheers.
Quote from: TheDream on August 18, 2023, 09:17:28 PMI think it’s a very interesting discussion, and I think this place is really the only place one can truely discuss it. Anywhere else and people just do not understand, and even bringing it up will take a toll.
The most interesting thing I find, is what you also mentioned, why are we unhappy about the height while others seem to be unbothered.
As to why this happens to some and not others, I suspect the key here is the way we process experiences related to height. The two extremes of processing experiences like this is 1. internalizing them, and 2. externalizing them.
What does this mean exactly?
Well take an extreme example of someone who cannot handle criticism. If you tell the person that they are being unpleasant right now, they react by yelling and insulting you doing so to no end in sight. Now imagine they always do this.
What their brain is doing is taking the hot ball of emotion that comes from the criticism, and immediately firing that energy out of their system, and back onto you.
Now take the opposite example. Someone who immediately shuts down due to shame, and absorbs the entire load of negative emotions from the criticism, and is overly embarrassed about it. Basically letting the bad emotion rattle their entire skeleton to the core.
If we take a look at height. These two examples could be shown to be one short man being overly aggressive when presented with a bad emotion due to their short height. This is a classic stereotype known as Napoleon syndrome. Often portrayed in the media when it comes to short men.
The opposite would then be one who looks down defeated, and absorbs the bad emotion as shame of their body, and being inadequate as a man, thus internalizing it.
I suspect that most if not all of us here are part of the internalized group. That is, we have internalized the idea of being inadequate as men due to height.
In todays society we are bombarded with this view 24/7. In movies, on social media, on dating apps etc. As other people are also bombarded with this view you get a feedback loop where they will also give you reinforcement that this is in fact true.
Therefore, if you have absorbed and internalized this view, that you are inadequete as a man, then as time goes on, you will feel this more and more as you are exposed to the feedback loop.
If you then mix in a personality that is hellbent on fixing problems, and finding a way, relentlessly, you end up with a prospective LL’er.
So as to why other short men don’t feel this way I suspect the following:
1. A psychological defense mechanism that protected them better against absorbing the view that short men are inadequate.
This could be a healthy one, like maybe they are good at a physical sport or martial art, so they are relaxed and confident that their short body is very powerful, and maybe they have agility or technique that means they know they are to be respected. Or simply an externalizing defense mechanism that makes them lash out and just never absorbing any bad view on themselves.
Or perhaps they were just exposed to less bad height related incidents.
2. A different personality
It could be that a lot of short men, perhaps a large majority, have internalized the view that they are inadequate due to their height, but they simply dont have the personality trait of being hellbent on solving such a problem no matter what and simply wont quit.
Mix in an internalized view of short men being inadequete + a persistent problem solving personality and you get a prospective LL’er.
One of the best comments I've ever seen on this forum. Very insightful and analytic.
Quote from: LG1816 on August 20, 2023, 01:05:50 PMVery insightful post, thanks for your input. What you say here makes total sense, and I suppose the natural following question is: is there a cure besides physically altering your body? Would such an all-consuming preoccupation with height be classified as body dysmorphia? And if so, shouldn't that be treated with psychotherapy?
Of course, psychotherapy for helping with this issue is said to very rarely work; I would expect this has a lot to do with the fact that, as you say, the idea of this being a legitimate issue to be concerned about is routinely ingrained in us by society. If that's the case, is it really body dysmorphia? Because all you're doing is identifying an issue society does deem to be important that you do not possess, where dysmorphia suggests your perceived woes are your mind's fiction.
Good question.
I dont think I would classify it as body dysmorphia because eye level is such a fundamental psychological thing.
I think I remember some experiment being done, where they gave tall people Virtual Reality goggles, and made them simulate being in a full subway (metro) while being very short.
If I remember correctly most if not all reported feeling a strong sense of anxiety being so far down compared to everyone else.
Body dysmorphia is more when you see yourself in third person, while a height neurosis is as much seeing the world from first person view.
As such I dont think a psychotherapy can cure a height neurosis, unless the height neurosis only manifests when the person see’s themselves on pictures, and not simply their first person view. As an example, one of the feelings I dread, is simply going to a social gathering at someones house, taking my shoes of, and having to interact in that setting.
The difference in eye level, as seen from my point of view, makes me feel very childlike and emasculated. I think the nail on the head is knowing these other people are not super tall. Maybe just average or slightly above average. So they are correct while I am incorrect.
I do however think that talking with a psychologist in combination with LL could be beneficial. Why? Well, it could help deal with the psychological dilemma of after LL. That is, do you keep it hidden, do you tell everyone, do you only tell certain people, when to tell them, when to tell a girl you are dating or not to tell etc.
Maybe creating a plan for this part, and having someone to talk things out with, and how to deal with this part could alleviate a lot of problems.
At the end of the day, when we do LL, we make a trade. We obtain more peace of mind from the added height in terms of height neurosis going down, but we instead we get stress from the psychological aspect of whom to tell or not to tell about having done LL.
I think having a clear plan of 1. Why you are doing LL 2. What is your goal and what are the constraints. You know you can’t become 7 foot tall and there will still be people taller than you after. Explain why you would feel okay with yourself in this scenario vs. with your current height. 3. What is your plan to deal with post LL in terms of who to tell and when.
I think nailing down these 3, maybe with a psychologist maybe by yourself, could prepare you well for the demons that you will face in exchange for lessening the height neurosis.
The same way many people stretch etc. before LL to prepare for the physical battles ahead.
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