Squatting

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Posts: 449

Joined: May 2019

Posted on Nov 14, 2019, 4:19 am

#1

Got lazy and skipped a few leg days, got back to it the other day and forgot how crippling DOMS could be for legs. I couldn't bend my legs, lift them up, walk properly, etc. For example, putting on pants is debilitating, getting up out of a chair is slow and painful and forget about sleep because turning over with sore hamstrings and glutes is a nightmare.

I am not saying LL and DOMS are the same, I pray for you if you're stupid enough to jump to conclusions so quickly. The symptoms are similar enough that I thought a thread on suggesting everyone to go train their legs to failure for a day might give them some idea or perspective of what might come, could be easier could be worse, I don't know as I have not done LL, maybe someone who has and works out can chime in with their experience on this matter.

Should it be similar to post LL, you guys will get 2-4 days of what it might be like and decide you can't go 3,4,5+ months, I don't know, but even if not, go fùckïng work out and get in shape, judging from how most of you guys are on the proportions subforum you need it. Also inb4 pain meds.

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soitchi

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Posts: 91

Joined: May 2019

Posted on Nov 24, 2019, 7:35 pm

#2

Seems like no one has interest in this lol

I guess most of you guys rather go into LL blind and hope for the best.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/2uel19/what_is_your_worst_doms_story/
https://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/comments/8786an/your_worstinsane_doms_story/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodybuilding/comments/2p4fgw/worst_doms_experience/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/377gvm/whats_the_worst_doms_youve_ever_had/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1bwt1b/fittit_whats_the_worse_case_of_doms_youve_ever_had/

If you guys can't get through 2-4 days of DOMS in your legs with unbroken bones, how do you guys know for sure you're ready for LL? Just because you spent a lot of time here reading, is that really enough?

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BetzLandLiberator

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Posts: 338

Joined: Nov 2019

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 3:17 am

#3

Quote from: soitchi on November 14, 2019, 04:19:35 AMI am not saying LL and DOMS are the same, I pray for you if you're stupid enough to jump to conclusions so quickly. The symptoms are similar enough that I thought a thread on suggesting everyone to go train their legs to failure for a day might give them some idea or perspective of what might come, could be easier could be worse, I don't know as I have not done LL, maybe someone who has and works out can chime in with their experience on this matter.

Should it be similar to post LL, you guys will get 2-4 days of what it might be like and decide you can't go 3,4,5+ months

As someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

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IwannaBeTaller

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Posts: 372

Joined: Jun 2014

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 2:08 pm

#4

Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on December 08, 2019, 03:17:20 AMAs someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

As an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

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BetzLandLiberator

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Posts: 484

Joined: Nov 2019

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 8:31 pm

#5

Quote from: IwannaBeTaller on December 08, 2019, 02:08:23 PMAs an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

That's an interesting question. I definitely think LL was the "hardest thing I did in my life" and one I'm the most proud of, but that's probably because the end result was so good and the effects in my life were amazing.

Keep in mind that I went from 165cm (less than 5% of male population) to 174cm (176cm in the morning) which is a "short average" in the US but average in my country. This is life changing. It's not the nice, but little, improvement in life you get from, let's say, 175cm to 185cm. I feel like I only became a real adult after LL. It was THAT important for me.

If I hadn't reached my goal or if I had some serious complication and permanent damage I would probably think differently about my experience and maybe I would be traumatized.

I can tell you I was pretty scared in some parts of the process. Even though I didn't have some common problems (e.g. no wide legs) and had some that very few people have (e.g. excruciating adductor pain in the first cms.)

I had to be sent to the hospital once when I started having nerve pain in my back going through my whole leg. Imagine a flaming sword cutting through your butt until it reaches your ankle. That was the feeling

Also, Betz do not release your IT bands like Paley, which I think it's correct in the long term but in the short term gives you duckass - so you basically look crippled and deformed in the end of lengthening. It's pretty scary and you have to keep reminding yourself that it will go away.

Anyway, that's my take. It is PRETTY BRUTAL and super hard (at least with the old Betzbone) but not traumatizing if you get good results.

Edit Post

Quote from: IwannaBeTaller on December 08, 2019, 02:08:23 PMAs an LL veteran, what's your opinion on LL veterans who insist LL is not a traumatic, painful experience, comparable to being the "hardest thing you will ever do in your life", but rather totally doable and not a big deal in terms of pain, trauma (such as Polycrates who did 6 cm on tibias)? Would you say different people experience LL rather differently, or rather that those people are underestimating/lying?

That's an interesting question. I definitely think LL was the "hardest thing I did in my life" and one I'm the most proud of, but that's probably because the end result was so good and the effects in my life were amazing.

Keep in mind that I went from 165cm (less than 5% of male population) to 174cm (176cm in the morning) which is a "short average" in the US but average in my country. This is life changing. It's not the nice, but little, improvement in life you get from, let's say, 175cm to 185cm. I feel like I only became a real adult after LL. It was THAT important for me.

If I hadn't reached my goal or if I had some serious complication and permanent damage I would probably think differently about my experience and maybe I would be traumatized.

I can tell you I was pretty scared in some parts of the process. Even though I didn't have some common problems (e.g. no wide legs) and had some that very few people have (e.g. excruciating adductor pain in the first cms.)

I had to be sent to the hospital once when I started having nerve pain in my back going through my whole leg. Imagine a flaming sword cutting through your butt until it reaches your ankle. That was the feeling

Also, Betz do not release your IT bands like Paley, which I think it's correct in the long term but in the short term gives you duckass - so you basically look crippled and deformed in the end of lengthening. It's pretty scary and you have to keep reminding yourself that it will go away.

Anyway, that's my take. It is PRETTY BRUTAL and super hard (at least with the old Betzbone) but not traumatizing if you get good results.

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soitchi

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Posts: 113

Joined: May 2019

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 9:27 pm

#6

Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on December 08, 2019, 03:17:20 AMAs someone who weightlifts since I was a teenager and had LL with Dr. Betz years ago (9cm on left femur, 10cm on right femur) I can chime on this.

DOMS and LL pain are NOTHING alike. Not even close. DOMS is actually a "good" pain to feel.

The different types of pains you will have during LL are not "good", you won't feel a sense of accomplishment like when you're having DOM. You will sick and run to your painkillers or you fight to not cry.

And I say "pains" (plural) because you will have different types of pains: stretching pain, abductor pain, nerve pain, etc.. One very different than the other.

So sorry, DOMS is not a good way to see if you will handle LL well or not.
Having the leg broken in a accident would be a more similar experience.

If by a "good" pain you mean the light soreness you get if you're active and remained so then that's not the level of DOMS I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a month or 2 off and then jumping back in heavy and to failure.

I'm not making comparisons to levels of pain but rather I'm comparing quality of life issues, lowering yourself to sit and getting off a seat or toilet or walking up/down stairs being difficult, waking up because you need to turn over, etc.

I don't see what's wrong suggesting people to go workout and have some sort of crippling experience in their legs, it might change some people's minds on LL, or would you rather people go in blind and hope for the best?

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BetzLandLiberator

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Posts: 42

Joined: Nov 2019

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 10:47 pm

#7

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMIf by a "good" pain you mean the light soreness you get if you're active and remained so then that's not the level of DOMS I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a month or 2 off and then jumping back in heavy and to failure.

No, I'm not talking about that. Dude, I've been weightlifting since I was 16 and I'm in my late 30s.
I never had to take 2 months off, but I had to take two or three weeks off in some occasions due to Doms.

I know what Doms is. And it's still a "good pain" in comparison to the pain you will feel with LL.
There is no comparison. LL pain will make you miserable and depressed.

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMI'm not making comparisons to levels of pain but rather I'm comparing quality of life issues, lowering yourself to sit and getting off a seat or toilet or walking up/down stairs being difficult, waking up because you need to turn over, etc.

Maybe with Stryde is similar in this aspect, but 7 years ago with Betzbone 1 it was much, much worse. I was basically crippled, on crutches, from late January until November. Things like extreme duckass (which I had in the end), widelegs (which I hadn't) and the waste of you muscles (even for someone that had muscular legs) makes the situation much more extreme.

With DOMS you don't have to worry about a wrong step activating a nerve pain that feels like a sword burning from your hip to your ankle and will put you temporally in a wheelchair.

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMI don't see what's wrong suggesting people to go workout and have some sort of crippling experience in their legs, it might change some people's minds on LL, or would you rather people go in blind and hope for the best?

I didn't say it's was wrong, I just said it was a wrong a comparison in terms of pain. One is nothing like the other. I had endured Doms multiple times before my LL and I was not prepared for the level of pain I had to endure during LL. It's whole another level.

I do recommend weightlifting for everyone doing LL. During the months I spent in Germany I noticed that the male patients that practiced weightlifting before LL had a much faster recovery and consolidation.

Edit Post

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMIf by a "good" pain you mean the light soreness you get if you're active and remained so then that's not the level of DOMS I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a month or 2 off and then jumping back in heavy and to failure.

No, I'm not talking about that. Dude, I've been weightlifting since I was 16 and I'm in my late 30s.
I never had to take 2 months off, but I had to take two or three weeks off in some occasions due to Doms.

I know what Doms is. And it's still a "good pain" in comparison to the pain you will feel with LL.
There is no comparison. LL pain will make you miserable and depressed.

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMI'm not making comparisons to levels of pain but rather I'm comparing quality of life issues, lowering yourself to sit and getting off a seat or toilet or walking up/down stairs being difficult, waking up because you need to turn over, etc.

Maybe with Stryde is similar in this aspect, but 7 years ago with Betzbone 1 it was much, much worse. I was basically crippled, on crutches, from late January until November. Things like extreme duckass (which I had in the end), widelegs (which I hadn't) and the waste of you muscles (even for someone that had muscular legs) makes the situation much more extreme.

With DOMS you don't have to worry about a wrong step activating a nerve pain that feels like a sword burning from your hip to your ankle and will put you temporally in a wheelchair.

Quote from: soitchi on December 08, 2019, 09:27:51 PMI don't see what's wrong suggesting people to go workout and have some sort of crippling experience in their legs, it might change some people's minds on LL, or would you rather people go in blind and hope for the best?

I didn't say it's was wrong, I just said it was a wrong a comparison in terms of pain. One is nothing like the other. I had endured Doms multiple times before my LL and I was not prepared for the level of pain I had to endure during LL. It's whole another level.

I do recommend weightlifting for everyone doing LL. During the months I spent in Germany I noticed that the male patients that practiced weightlifting before LL had a much faster recovery and consolidation.

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ZUCC420

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Joined: Feb 2018

Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 11:35 pm

#8

@BetzLandLiberator Sure it seems the pros outweigh the cons instantly post surgery, but I doubt your sentiment will remain the same after 30 years.

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BetzLandLiberator

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Posted on Dec 8, 2019, 11:45 pm

#9

Quote from: ZUCC420 on December 08, 2019, 11:35:25 PM@BetzLandLiberator Sure it seems the pros outweigh the cons instantly post surgery, but I doubt your sentiment will remain the same after 30 years.

We never know. But I'm doing great 7 years later. So much that I'm considering tibias.

But I do not recommend LL for anyone that is not bellow average in height and not above average in fitness.
If you smoke, is overweight, do not exercise regularly, etc... this is not for you.
If you're 180cm or more...this is not for you either.

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soitchi

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Posts: 453

Joined: May 2019

Posted on Dec 9, 2019, 6:09 am

#10

Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on December 08, 2019, 10:47:05 PMNo, I'm not talking about that. Dude, I've been weightlifting since I was 16 and I'm in my late 30s.
I never had to take 2 months off, but I had to take two or three weeks off in some occasions due to Doms.

And that's exactly what I'm not talking about either, I know what level of DOMS you're talking about, a little bit of soreness even after destroying your body the day before because you're consistently lifting. This isn't DOMS that you can kill with a cold shower and doesn't get in the way of everyday life. I've taken time off before and like those in those Reddit posts, the DOMS on muscles that hasn't been active like previously is not just a bit of soreness, it's extremely sore, your legs are stiff/can't bend, same with arms they stay in t-rex position, etc. If you skip leg day for a few weeks and go back in heavy to failure, you're going to wish you didn't.

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