BodyBuilder. Reality vs. Expectation

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Quote from: Antonio on February 23, 2017, 11:28:15 AMBodybuilder, have you tried boots with lifts to add 4-5 cm to your normal height with shoes? If you have, do you notice a big difference in response from the women you date / try to date? Not trying to pick on you, I'm truly interested in the marginal effect

Yes my friend, when go in the clubs I wear my 2 inches elevator Bugarri shoes, not only for the added height but because they are very elegant too. These put me at a solid 5.10,5 or just a slight more which is the border imo to be taller than most of the girls (of course there are still a lot of girls taller than that with heels but not the majority)  in the clubs who wear huge heels (10+ cm) and be about average compared to the most men there who also wear shoes of 2-3 cms.
So, my elevator shoes only give about 1 extra inch more compared to the most normal men's shoes which is something but not anything big.
And yes, I see a difference especially when I talk to girls who are just a little shorter than me (with heels) and if I wore flat shoes they would have been taller and most of the times would have rejected me only for that. A guy shorter than a woman, even if she wears huge heels, is at least 80% a dealbreaker for her, especially in places like clubs, bars and all these.

Finally, my 6ft and 6.1ft best friends still have a much easier time picking girls on clubs and they are completely average looking in every other aspect. Not bad of course but not anything special either. And both of them have much less money than me (because some of you mentioned money and success) and neither of them have a relatively new BMW like me.
But height make their lives much easier on dating, not in relationships generally where many other things matter a lot too, but on the first impression.
Above averave height, good clothes and an at least average face and body are more than enough to have plenty chances on dating.

@Bander: I was 1.68 and now I am 1.75,5.
I'm talking about morning height. At night before going to sleep I'm most of the times 1.74 or just 2-3mm  less.

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Hey bodybuilder nice to see you here. I remember your experience from the other fórum.

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Well this thread has certainly been hijacked from its original purpose and turned into a thread full of arguments and personal attacks. Could those who want to discuss their own issues start a different thread and deal with them there?

The questions asked in the original post by CaptainAmerica could be very interesting to read and discuss the experiences and opinions of those who have undergone the procedure while being helpful to people who are considering/have completed limb lengthening.

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Quote from: Body Builder on February 23, 2017, 12:28:08 PMYes my friend, when go in the clubs I wear my 2 inches elevator Bugarri shoes, not only for the added height but because they are very elegant too. These put me at a solid 5.10,5 or just a slight more which is the border imo to be taller than most of the girls (of course there are still a lot of girls taller than that with heels but not the majority)  in the clubs who wear huge heels (10+ cm) and be about average compared to the most men there who also wear shoes of 2-3 cms.
So, my elevator shoes only give about 1 extra inch more compared to the most normal men's shoes which is something but not anything big.
And yes, I see a difference especially when I talk to girls who are just a little shorter than me (with heels) and if I wore flat shoes they would have been taller and most of the times would have rejected me only for that. A guy shorter than a woman, even if she wears huge heels, is at least 80% a dealbreaker for her, especially in places like clubs, bars and all these.

Finally, my 6ft and 6.1ft best friends still have a much easier time picking girls on clubs and they are completely average looking in every other aspect. Not bad of course but not anything special either. And both of them have much less money than me (because some of you mentioned money and success) and neither of them have a relatively new BMW like me.
But height make their lives much easier on dating, not in relationships generally where many other things matter a lot too, but on the first impression.
Above averave height, good clothes and an at least average face and body are more than enough to have plenty chances on dating.

Thanks for sharing your honest experience, BB; it is refreshing to hear.

Further questions:
1. Do you ever pick up women in places where they don't wear heels, like the gym / tennis club / ski piste / running in the park? Assuming then that you are a good 4-5 inches taller than them (assuming equal footwear), are their responses better than when you are in the places where they wear heels? Also as in the gym they are more appreciative of your body they could overlook the height difference.

2. Do you do better when you are in a group of men of similar height (as in you look like the average guy)? or better when the average is less (ie you look taller than average)? I ask because I went to a salsa club for the first time last week with a date and I was surprised that I was one of the tallest guys there. I can't dance to save my life but I certainly felt that the women were more interested.

3. What is the ideal height for a woman for you? Has your perception of the ideal height of a woman changed after your LL?

Once again, just trying to confirm or refute some hypotheses. Respect to you my friend

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Quote from: 682 on February 23, 2017, 02:08:58 PMWell this thread has certainly been hijacked from its original purpose and turned into a thread full of arguments and personal attacks. Could those who want to discuss their own issues start a different thread and deal with them there?

The questions asked in the original post by CaptainAmerica could be very interesting to read and discuss the experiences and opinions of those who have undergone the procedure while being helpful to people who are considering/have completed limb lengthening.

I agree. Perhaps the mods could move the replies onto another thread?

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What is all this focus on clubs and bars? Persoanlly I don't know anyone who ever got laid in a bar or a club (not talking about kissing which happens to some people me included). All got girls (short and long term) from everywhere else besides clubs and bars. I think it is a little bit overestimated as to how much those two places are major when it comes to hookups.
  I can understand the fixation if you are north american as when I went there the club/bar scene is indeed extremely sexual (to what is worth, as someone who lived mainly in europe, the way women behave there  could be considered here almost as sexual harassment).

 I do think that the way people here are belittling body builder (which is an honest guy which also have a diary in the old forum) becasue of his thoughts is exaggerated.. You can disagree with him, but you don't need to insult

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Quote from: Antonio on February 23, 2017, 02:11:40 PMThanks for sharing your honest experience, BB; it is refreshing to hear.

Further questions:
1. Do you ever pick up women in places where they don't wear heels, like the gym / tennis club / ski piste / running in the park? Assuming then that you are a good 4-5 inches taller than them (assuming equal footwear), are their responses better than when you are in the places where they wear heels? Also as in the gym they are more appreciative of your body they could overlook the height difference.

2. Do you do better when you are in a group of men of similar height (as in you look like the average guy)? or better when the average is less (ie you look taller than average)? I ask because I went to a salsa club for the first time last week with a date and I was surprised that I was one of the tallest guys there. I can't dance to save my life but I certainly felt that the women were more interested.

3. What is the ideal height for a woman for you? Has your perception of the ideal height of a woman changed after your LL?

Once again, just trying to confirm or refute some hypotheses. Respect to you my friend

@ krp1: nice to met you my friend.

@682: You are right. Many of the posts here should be moved to an other thread or something.

@ antonio: 1)on the gym it is much harder to pick up girls and also, I'm there for working out, not for picking girls. Also, the girls that are really worth are there to just work out and don't have the willing for social time with men most of the time.
So when I hit the gym I'm dedicated to do what I should with my body and I'm not in the mood for more things. And trust me, most of the real good looking girls think the same. They go to gym to improve themselves, not meeting men.
Also, I don't have many hobbies (ski, jogging etc) so I don't know if it would have been easier for me to flirt there.
The places I most of the times find women is clubs, bars and generally speaking places that people go out to meet other people. Of course there are many superficial women there but there are nice women too. And after all, superficial or not, they still want to meet men. And if you don't have any major drawback in your appearance (which is the most important on these places for both men and women) then you won't face any problem even with a little shallow women.
After all, its nice to have the choice to see if you want to do something with a (even shallow) girl or not rather than be rejected for something like height.
I don't look for these kinds of girls of course but I still don't want to think that I'm not good enough for many women due to my lack of more than average height, while on every other aspect I'm far from average.

2). Yes, while I'm with men at about my height or a little above (1 inch lets say) almost every time I'm the one who would find a new girl in a club. When I am with my tall friends I mentioned before, most of the times they find girls easier than me and women talk to them more than me.
And yes, the less the average men height in a club is, the easier it is for me to pick girls.
All these are  a common experience for men who go out a lot and have an adventurous life style.
People who only find women via internet or have longtime relationships and don't go out to meet new girls can't understand what I'm talking about and how important is height for these situations.

3) I don't have an ideal height for women. The most compatible for my height would be a 5.4-5.6 girls but everything from 5.2 to 5.9 is good enough for me.
I tend to prefer girls 5.3-5.6 range but I really don't care.
On the other hand, a nice face, a slim body and a cute character are much more significant for me in a girl than height.

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no problem..

Please link to these studies which show  that after   achilles shortening,  avg  plantar strength of  the participant's   surgical leg was measured to be  over 80% of the non operated leg.

Quote from: Body Builder on February 23, 2017, 11:37:15 AM@ crimsontide: thank you for your kind words first of all.
About AT shortening, the biggest research which included 11 patients who had this surgery after tendon elongation from bad surgeries after AT rupture and were under the observation of dr Mafulli, maybe the best doctor in the world about achilles tendon surgeries (he only does orthopaedic surgeries to ach tendons, nothing else!) and is also on the internet, have much greater results than 50-55%.
The average push off power was restored to 82% and calf diameter was about 3 cm less compared to healthy foot (less than 10% difference).
And all the patients except from 1 said that they couldn't feel any difference between their legs, healthy and operated one.
So my friend, at least on papers, AT shortening seems to work a lot and after all, my calf size is already less than 10% smaller than before ATL (I'm an amateur BBer so I always measured my muscles and I know exactly the difference) so 50-55% of gastrocnemius reduction is far from reality, at least for relatively young and healthy patients.

I'm sorry for the off topic post but I"ve read a lot about what I"m going to do and have an excellent doctor with great experience on ach. tendons, so I know why I am so optimist about this surgery. After all, even now with overlengthened tendons (especially the left one) most of the times I am generally speaking good and walk normal, so if I wasn't sure about the good incomes of tendon shortening (at least on theory and what research shows) then I wouldn't have considered doing it.
I hope that everything will be ok with me and  maybe you consider doing it too in the future.

@ Dointgitforme: first of all congratulations for your diary and your smooth LL experience.
You have many right points on what you say but you know something? I'm very happy with anything else in my life and I don't want to-can't improve anything else in my appearance because I'm lucky to have a good face and my body, after 11 years of continuous working out (with only 2 years break after LL) is at its best.
And I wasn't been rejected for my height too, at least openly, but I"ve many times heard that I'm not tall enough or that I'd have been much better if I was 5.11 and these kind of comments.
And after all, I know that if I were 5.11 I'd have been more aesthetic looking than now and if we want to discuss and about proportions (which doesn't matter a lot for me) it is better for someone to have equally lenfgthened femurs-tibias compared to someone with just 7.5 cm lengthened tibias.

So, there is really no reason for not doing another LL and reach my dream height.
Money doesn't matter for me if I'm completely happy with myself and have social benefits from height (which you don't have when you are shorter than about 5.11) and risks are not many with femur LL with a capable doctor.
For all these reasons, a second LL is really something that will improve my life a lot.

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I'm 5'7 and a half and I want to do LL. I might be on the taller end of the short spectrum but honestly I don't care. I don't plan on going over 5 cm. At this point I don't care if it helps me attract more women, that's not what I care about anymore. Will LL make me happier? A little, but probably not by much. I do agree that people should not get a second surgery unless they are closer to the average spectrum. All in all it shouldn't matter what we think of someone else, everyone has their own opinion and if they want to take the risk like all of us than so be it. We're the only ones to blame if something goes wrong.

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Here is the link Crimsontide
"test paired sampled statistics showed that the operated limb had a lower peak torque than the nonoperated leg (240.9 N ± 51.9 N vs. 299.0 N ± 44.2 N; P = 0.05), but the patients did not perceive this decrease in strength as interfering with their daily or leisure activities. ".

299 N to 241 N means a reduction of plantar flexion power of about 20%, not 50% as you mentioned.
Also most of the patiens didn't saw any major difference between the operated and the non operated leg after tendon shortening, although before this surgery they couldn't even do a single heel raise (I can do more than 40 in each leg).
And finally, these patients where about 50 years old which doesn't help a lot for a great outcome compared to my 28 years.
So if they reached about 80% compared to their non operated leg, I'm almost sure than my outcome will be at least the same and maybe bettet.

All the above numbers and everything about achilles tendon shortening after tendon elongation due to bad surgery after achilles rupture (which is the same as tendon overlengthening after atl) are mentioned here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460090/