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Compendium of Outcomes

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Thatdude950
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Posts: 477
Joined: Jan 2016
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 11:19 am
#1
A lot of diaries have ambiguous endings under or around a year after lengthening. I've added the ones that stand out - clear positives, clear negatives, or outcomes that were at least updated signifantly after lengthening. There are so many diaries to read. This is probably 10% or so of them, if not less. Hopefully this is useful. Feel free to add others. If you're here & not happy with what I've said, I will add in your response.

Good outcomes:
ShyShy - Happy with result, no further surgery.
Medium Drink of Water - Happy with result, no further surgery.
badboy - Happy with result
Apo - Happy with result (my opinion - good aesthetics, very slow running)
Hannah84 - Happy with result
stillyoung - Happy with result
Lara - Happy with result
upinthesky - Happy with result
stillyoung - happy with outcome, claims ~200+ pound deadlift and squat for reps (video evidence pending)

Neutral outcomes:
Smallguy - Required further corrective surgery but seems happy with the overall result.
Tdot - Decided to have further surgery
The_Rock - Happy with outcome, but running is ~70% of pre LL ability, explosiveness 40 - 50% (unacceptable in my opinion)
Growing - Happy with result, but has not recovered athletically after ~3 years.
Ocean - Required further corrective surgery but seems happy with the overall result.
Body Builder - Happy with outcome, but says his athletic ability was significantly diminished.
Dryani - Seems happy, but has not done more than walk +2 years after LL. Athletic ability also seems significantly diminished.
Yellowspike - Continued height neurosis, looking at further surgery
prince2 -  "Getting back to where I was before is impossible if you ask me. That will never happen. If I get back 70 % I would be very happy."   despite this he seems satisfied.
OldieButGoldie - Unhappy with post LL functionality. Updated: I saw a post by OldiebutGoodie (see reply #99 in OldieButGoldie's Patient's Experience Topic) - he wasn't happy with my assessment. He didn't think the surgery was worth it, but had no complications and doesn't consider it a poor outcome

Poor outcomes:
Walk6 - Unhappy with post LL functionality
RGKEY - Moderate deformation, loss of functionality, further surgery planned (I believe?)
Greekster - Unacceptable recovery after 3 years, multiple lengthenings.
daigoro - Serious complications - corrective surgery required (callus fracture), loss of functionality
Emanuel- Serious complications, multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
Master Hy- Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries ($250,000 + financial loss), loss of function
Crimsontide - Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
programdude - Serious complications - Leg snapped post lengthening, corrective surgery required.
Polycrates - Regret, continuance (worsening?) of BDD symptoms re: proportions
Sweden - Unhappy with post LL function, continuance (worsening?) of BDD symptoms re: proportions, considering further surgery
blackbear - Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
crazy+6 - Serious complications, corrective surgeries, multiple lengthenings, loss of functionality
Strugglinghard - Serious complications, loss of functionality
Cooper -  "Serious complications, corrective surgery(s) required, 100k+ in additional costs.
musicmaker - "multiple corrective surgeries required"
BigFaker. 3+ years later and cannot run. Multiple corrective surgeries. Right leg only 65 - 70% healed, left leg had a non Union

Unknown outcomes of note
Leechlet - Dissapeared abruptly.
Big D - stopped posting after 6 months, but on a positive note.

Other outcomes
mmm_native - multiple corrective surgeries & loss of function. Initially lengthened with an uknown doctor in Iran.
prince2 - 1.5 years post lengthening he still is not allowed (able?) to run, but seems to be happy & getting better.
andrewshizzles - He's an interesting one. He's able to run and move around OK. He runs a 30 minute 5k which is very very average but not awful, can shoot hoops OK etc. But he had a serious complication - his nail broke post recovery, his leg snapped in half and he had to fly half way around the world for emergency surgery.

Edited: For Thatdude950 to include updates/additions to original post (May 2016)
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Deads
Verified Member
Posts: 293
Joined: Sep 2015
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 11:52 am
#2
Quote from: Thatdude950 on January 05, 2016, 11:19:16 AM
A lot of diaries have ambiguous endings under or around a year after lengthening. I've added the ones that stand out - clear positives, clear negatives, or outcomes that were at least updated signifantly after lengthening. There are so many diaries to read. This is probably 10% or so of them, if not less. Hopefully this is useful. Feel free to add others. If you're here & not happy with what I've said, I will add in your response.

Good outcomes:
ShyShy - Happy with result, no further surgery.
Medium Drink of Water - Happy with result, no further surgery.
badboy - Happy with result
Apo - Happy with result (my opinion - good aesthetics, very slow running)
Hannah84 - Happy with result
stillyoung - Happy with result
Lara - Happy with result
upinthesky - Happy with result

Neutral outcomes:
Smallguy - Required further corrective surgery but seems happy with the overall result.
Tdot - Decided to have further surgery
The_Rock - Happy with outcome, but running is ~70% of pre LL ability, explosiveness 40 - 50% (unacceptable in my opinion)
Growing - Happy with result, but has not recovered athletically after ~3 years.
Ocean - Required further corrective surgery but seems happy with the overall result.
Body Builder - Happy with outcome, but says his athletic ability was significantly diminished.
Dryani - Seems happy, but has not done more than walk +2 years after LL. Athletic ability also seems significantly diminished.

Poor outcomes:
Walk6 - Unhappy with post LL functionality
RGKEY - Moderate deformation, loss of functionality, further surgery planned (I believe?)
OldieButGoodie - Unhappy with post LL functionality.
Greekster - Unacceptable recovery after 3 years, multiple lengthenings.
daigoro - Serious complications - corrective surgery required (callus fracture), loss of functionality
Emanuel- Serious complications, multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
Master Hy- Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries ($250,000 + financial loss), loss of function
Crimsontide - Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
programdude - Serious complications - Leg snapped post lengthening, corrective surgery required.
Yellowspike - Continued height neurosis, looking at further surgery
Polycrates - Regret, continuance (worsening?) of BDD symptoms re: proportions
Sweden - Unhappy with post LL function, continuance (worsening?) of BDD symptoms re: proportions, considering further surgery
blackbear - Serious complications - multiple corrective surgeries, loss of functionality
crazy+6 - Serious complications, corrective surgeries, multiple lengthenings, loss of functionality
Strugglinghard - Serious complications, loss of functionality

Unknown outcomes of note
Leechlet - Dissapeared abruptly.
Big D - stopped posting after 6 months, but on a positive note.

Other outcomes
mmm_native - multiple corrective surgeries & loss of function. Initially lengthened with an uknown doctor in Iran.
prince2 - 1.5 years post lengthening he still is not allowed (able?) to run, but seems to be happy & getting better.

Interesting.. Are you able to post the amount lengthened and the portion lengthened for each person? That would definitely make it statistically more interesting.
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Uppland
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Posts: 438
Joined: Oct 2014
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 12:34 pm
#3
Also consider the surgeon in question, and you're missing some positive outcomes from people who just did AMA's instead of writing a diary.
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Overdozer
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Posts: 188
Joined: Aug 2014
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 1:04 pm
#4
Thank god I'm not even there. Because I just was busy/got bored updating it. Probably will post an aftermath at some point. Maybe
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Deads
Verified Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Sep 2015
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 1:39 pm
#5
Quote from: Uppland on January 05, 2016, 12:34:32 PM
Also consider the surgeon in question, and you're missing some positive outcomes from people who just did AMA's instead of writing a diary.

Second this.
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jaymorgan712
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Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2015
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 1:48 pm
#6
Alot of people who lost their athletic ability or had weaker muscles etc went past 6 centimetres in the tibia.
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Ozymandias
Verified Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sep 2015
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 2:55 pm
#7
Good list! But I agree that it would be cool if the list included the amount lengthened. Many of the "poor outcomes" were by people who lengthened 9 or 10 cm in one sector (mostly external tibiae), which is a receipt for disaster. As many doctors stated, a loss of functionality is not surprising for such cases.

Also, I would list as "poor outcomes" only those cases which resulted in some kind of physical problem, not psychological issues like regrets or height neurosis not solved.
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Medium Drink Of Water
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Posts: 200
Joined: Oct 2013
Posted on Jan 5, 2016, 3:24 pm
#8
The people who say they lost too much athleticism may get it back eventually.  Even after being fully consolidated and having my internal nails removed, it took about a year for me to get to 90%.
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Alu
Verified Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Aug 2015
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 4:43 am
#9
I was wondering where you were Thatdude950. Funny that a guy who's anti-LL would provide such a valuable thread; so I thank you for this.
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theuprising
Verified Member
Posts: 493
Joined: Jan 2014
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 6:33 am
#10
Posted this before and here it is again regarding tibia lengthening.


Dr Donghoon Lee who has followed up with over 400 CLL patients had this to say

From Walk6 diary
"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.

In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."

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Thatdude950
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Posts: 119
Joined: Jan 2016
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 7:28 am
#11
Although there's plenty of examples of patients needing corrective surgery, the most common negative theme is poor athletic recovery. If a patient genuinely does not care about being fit & mobile, & is happy with no activity outside of walking/jogging/basic movement, a number of diaries could be placed in the "good" category. Walk6, Oldiebutgoodie, dryani, bodybuilder ... they (I think) had had no complications, and for some this would be acceptable. (To me though, this kind of trade off is totally unacceptable...)

Also, as mentioned, some had no complications but were left with the same insecurities. These guys have massive balls for being honest about how they feel. (In fact, everyone keeping a diary & putting themselves out there has massive balls) But I think this does still constitute a poor result. What's the point of doing this if it doesn't actually help your height neurosis? I know people like to dismiss this "Oh, I *know* I won't feel that way" ... all I can say it look at the results. You aren't special. This is something that happens across the board with ALL cosmetic surgery, and is something you should take seriously.

Yes Alu, I'm still lurking :). Honestly, I think the data speaks for itself. I hope it is useful.
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Deads
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Posts: 135
Joined: Sep 2015
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 7:33 am
#12
Quote from: Thatdude950 on January 06, 2016, 07:28:47 AM
Although there's plenty of examples of patients needing corrective surgery, the most common negative theme is poor athletic recovery. If a patient genuinely does not care about being fit & mobile, & is happy with no activity outside of walking/jogging/basic movement, a number of diaries could be placed in the "good" category. Walk6, Oldiebutgoodie, dryani, bodybuilder ... they (I think) had had no complications, and for some this would be acceptable. (To me though, this kind of trade off is totally unacceptable...)

Also, as mentioned, some had no complications but were left with the same insecurities. These guys have massive balls for being honest about how they feel. (In fact, everyone keeping a diary & putting themselves out there has massive balls) But I think this does still constitute a poor result. What's the point of doing this if it doesn't actually help your height neurosis? I know people like to dismiss this "Oh, I *know* I won't feel that way" ... all I can say it look at the results. You aren't special. This is something that happens across the board with ALL cosmetic surgery, and is something you should take seriously.

Yes Alu, I'm still lurking :). Honestly, I think the data speaks for itself. I hope it is useful.

I'd say that this would be considered one of the most valuable threads on the forum if you could post the additional data (e.g amount lengthened, the portion and doctor) in the same fashion that you presented your original post.
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PatientZero
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Posts: 373
Joined: Dec 2015
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 11:22 pm
#13
This list is a reality check for 5'8+ dudes who think their life is magically going to improve after they casually lengthen 4cm, have an ultra successful career and bang tons of chicks after.

Also a wake up call for prospective patients who at the offset want to do quadrilateral. Stuff goes wrong first surgery, lets tempt nature a second time!

Limb lengthening is a last resort for short guys who are unable to overcome his social and professional shortcomings despite having improved all other facets of his personhood.

Personally, I would've never done this surgery if I started at 5'7.
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Uppland
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Posts: 375
Joined: Oct 2014
Posted on Jan 6, 2016, 11:47 pm
#14
Quote from: PatientZero on January 06, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
This list is a reality check for 5'8+ dudes who think their life is magically going to improve after they casually lengthen 4cm, have an ultra successful career and bang tons of chicks after.

Also a wake up call for prospective patients who at the offset want to do quadrilateral. Stuff goes wrong first surgery, lets tempt nature a second time!

Limb lengthening is a last resort for short guys who are unable to overcome his social and professional shortcomings despite having improved all other facets of his personhood.

Personally, I would've never done this surgery if I started at 5'7.

I don't know, it's true that I read a lot of troublesome outcomes but these are almost always from people who lengthen more than 5 cm in one segment and more often than not with a surgeon outside of western europe and nort america.

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ouroboros
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Posts: 165
Joined: Feb 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 1:17 am
#15
Quote from: musicmaker on January 06, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Did you know that one of Paley's patients had a fracture and another one died in 2015? Keep that in mind.


?????   died???   where did you hear this?   was it a member of the forums?
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spaghetti743
Verified Member
Posts: 261
Joined: Nov 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 4:21 am
#16
If anyone has any information about patient who died or the scenario please share.
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spaghetti743
Verified Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Nov 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 4:30 am
#17
Most people say 6cm is safe. If someone does 6cm tibia can they recover then come back 2 years later to lengthen tibia again? Or is the 6cm limit 6cm lifetime recommended limit. Only taking tibias into account not femurs.
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Madmax_01
Verified Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Dec 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 3:56 pm
#18
Quote from: PatientZero on January 06, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
Limb lengthening is a last resort for short guys who are unable to overcome his social and professional shortcomings despite having improved all other facets of his personhood.

Personally, I would've never done this surgery if I started at 5'7.

Word! I could not agree more!

By the way: A great thread with the compendiums. Maybe we could fill-in the information as a community (how much lenghtened, which limb, etc.)
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Alittletooshort
Verified Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 5:25 pm
#19
Quote from: Medium Drink Of Water on January 05, 2016, 03:24:18 PM
The people who say they lost too much athleticism may get it back eventually.  Even after being fully consolidated and having my internal nails removed, it took about a year for me to get to 90%.
I don´t know if you have already answered this question in another thread but I´d like to know how your knees are doing besides the pain when kneeling on a hard surface?
Do you think that your patella is as strong as it was before the surgery? I´ve heard that the patella can burst when performing heavy exercises in the gym (heavy squats, leg press), that´s why I´m a little worried.
Would you do LON again if you had to make the choice again?
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Deads
Verified Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sep 2015
Posted on Jan 7, 2016, 5:30 pm
#20
Quote from: musicmaker on January 07, 2016, 03:59:36 PM
I got that info from medical sources. I don't know if this person was a member of the forums.

Which medical sources?

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