DoingItForMe's Precice 2 Internal Femurs with Dr. Paley

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Quote from: DoingItForMe on March 08, 2017, 01:15:52 AMI personally would take the money for surgery and invest it in stocks. My stocks have been doubling in value every 5 years or so. If I put $100k into stocks today, it'd be $200k in 5 years, $400k in 10 years, and about $1 million in less than 25 years. And you said it's impossible to be a millionaire? And that's assuming that you only have 100k and never make anymore money. Realistically, you should keep contributing a portion of your salary to your investments and you could easily become a millionaire by the time you retire.
I know you don't see it that way, but I think you're just meeting a different type of girl than I am, that's all.

And this is how the average person in a western country can be still become relatively wealthy (i.e $1 million+). Get a job & start investing. This is a great thread! Lots of really good info in here over the last few pages.

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I may be going against the grain with my way of thinking but if youre young and make decent salary why wouldnt you want to have this surgery if it will make you feel better about yourself?

I dont make that much myself. I make roughly 70k a year and I will be 30 in a few years but you can bet your ass that I am thinking long and hard about this surgery.

Will it take from my retirement? Yeah maybe. But I am very frugal myself. I drive a decent car, dont spend too much on other things and at the end of the month I have roughly 2k left over. This is after contributing to my IRA account and my 401k.

All in all, we all have our wants. We dont really need anything besides food and shelter in life so anything after that, I can argue that its just a want.

Are you saying that at 70k, I shouldnt do this surgery because its going to set me back for years even though I am contributing roughly 20% of my salary to retirement?

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Only you can decide that, but I'm not really talking about retirement.

Think of it this way-- for most people, saving 100k is hard. Let's say a person that's 23 understands the basic principles of making money (saving, investing, compound interest, diversification etc) & manages to put together 100k in savings, & 100k in their retirement fund by their late 20's.

They're in a decent situation. They have no debt, & they have 200k sitting there which is making them money while they sit on their ass. A 7% return is giving them 14k a year for nothing. If they want to spend $10,000 on a couple of holidays throughout the year, it's not a big deal. They're only spending 5% of their total worth to do it, & they will make it back quickly. The same logic goes for buying nice clothing, going out to nice restaurants, & having nice experiences in general. Obviously this person will not overspend because they are sensible, but they can easily afford to do these kinds of things (within reason), while continuing to build even more wealth from their investments, & having the peace of mind that money brings.

Lets say that 23 year old does LL instead. The debt they've taken out is accruing interest, they're missing out on work ... if all goes reasonably well, by their late 20's I think a decent result would just be not having debt. So, they're close to 30 and have nothing. Let's say after getting rid of that debt, they save pretty hard, & manage to put together 50k in a few years.

So this person is already older than our first example, they're 32. A 7% return is making them just 3500 a year. If they want to spend 10,000 on a holiday, it's a *big* chunk of their net worth at 20%. They have far less freedom, and I imagine for more stress. And this is a *good* result. I'm assuming they have been employed and able to pay off the debt, that they haven't had any extra medical expenses, that they use their money wisely etc etc.

So it's less about retirement and more about what kind of lifestyle you're able to realistically afford both right now and in the near future (5-10 years)

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Quote from: Thatdude950 on May 10, 2017, 01:05:23 AMOnly you can decide that, but I'm not really talking about retirement.

Think of it this way-- for most people, saving 100k is hard. Let's say a person that's 23 understands the basic principles of making money (saving, investing, compound interest, diversification etc) & manages to put together 100k in savings, & 100k in their retirement fund by their late 20's.

They're in a decent situation. They have no debt, & they have 200k sitting there which is making them money while they sit on their ass. A 7% return is giving them 14k a year for nothing. If they want to spend $10,000 on a couple of holidays throughout the year, it's not a big deal. They're only spending 5% of their total worth to do it, & they will make it back quickly. The same logic goes for buying nice clothing, going out to nice restaurants, & having nice experiences in general. Obviously this person will not overspend because they are sensible, but they can easily afford to do these kinds of things (within reason), while continuing to build even more wealth from their investments, & having the peace of mind that money brings.

Lets say that 23 year old does LL instead. The debt they've taken out is accruing interest, they're missing out on work ... if all goes reasonably well, by their late 20's I think a decent result would just be not having debt. So, they're close to 30 and have nothing. Let's say after getting rid of that debt, they save pretty hard, & manage to put together 50k in a few years.

So this person is already older than our first example, they're 32. A 7% return is making them just 3500 a year. If they want to spend 10,000 on a holiday, it's a *big* chunk of their net worth at 20%. They have far less freedom, and I imagine for more stress. And this is a *good* result. I'm assuming they have been employed and able to pay off the debt, that they haven't had any extra medical expenses, that they use their money wisely etc etc.

So it's less about retirement and more about what kind of lifestyle you're able to realistically afford both right now and in the near future (5-10 years)

I agree with you to a certain extent. I think its all about balance and it also depends on the person. If someone that is naturally frugal doesnt care about living an extravagant lifestyle then they can live well in the future. Once again, saving 20% of your income from a young age (mid 20's) should be more than enough for the future.

What good is having all that money in the bank account at 70 or 80 when the best years of your life are in your 20s and 30s? Im not saying dont save, but if you can afford to do something with your play money, why not do this surgery?

Going back to my example, unless im wrong, making 70k is decent and I can afford to have this surgery while still saving 20% for retirement. But to me becoming wealthy is not at the top of my list as far as priorities go. 

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Quote from: yyes on May 10, 2017, 01:13:52 AMI agree with you to a certain extent. I think its all about balance and it also depends on the person. If someone that is naturally frugal doesnt care about living an extravagant lifestyle then they can live well in the future. Once again, saving 20% of your income from a young age (mid 20's) should be more than enough for the future.

What good is having all that money in the bank account at 70 or 80 when the best years of your life are in your 20s and 30s? Im not saying dont save, but if you can afford to do something with your play money, why not do this surgery?

Going back to my example, unless im wrong, making 70k is decent and I can afford to have this surgery while still saving 20% for retirement. But to me becoming wealthy is not at the top of my list as far as priorities go.

The point is that it gives you freedom (most importantly!) & peace of mind right now. In the future, it's something to leave for your children & pay for their expenses (study, unforeseen medical bills) & to alleviate your own suffering from which age brings. Where you decide to draw the line re: balance is up to you. But I don't think LL is a balanced decision at all.

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Thatdude how tall are you? If your average height or above then you probably won't understand why people do ll.

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I can appreciate why guys that are shorter/the same height as the average woman do it, but not those who are taller. I think those that are taller & still have trouble with women have other things which hold them back but they refuse to look at themselves & their other flaws objectively, or perhaps have a black/white, limited understanding of what women find attractive.

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All the comments stated above are very valid finance principles and of course LL is a no-no from a investment perspective. 100 k is a considerable amount of money and the ROI would be probably zero financially speaking. Not too mention the cost of opportunity for the time taken off work due to LL. however, this is all about living the live you want and be yourself! This surgery could be worth millions in happiness. Money can't buy happiness, not directly, but if you can afford this ludicrous surgery, Just do it. Think carefully and analize whether it's your hight that is holding back personally or professionally and if that is th case just do it.

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Quote from: Peaceout on May 09, 2017, 07:44:43 PMHey its been a while,how are you man??

I'm doing very well. I still haven't gotten an x-ray since last October, because I'm afraid to know the truth - that my bones still haven't connected on the side of my bone gap. Other than that, it's been almost two years since I started this LL journey, so let's have an update:

1) My legs still hurt if I use them too much. It hurts where my screws are connected to the femur - top and bottom of femur. Sometimes my friends notice that I'm like limping when I walk 5 miles straight. And I'm limping because it hurts - presumably because the screws are taking repeated blows from the impact of the concrete sidewalk. The same applies if I put too much weight on one leg. I'm hoping that this will go away when I remove the rods so that the pressure is more evenly distributed throughout my bones.

2) Most of the time it doesn't hurt anymore - for example, if I'm just sitting around doing nothing or walking lightly. This was a big concern of mine because for about a year it did hurt, but it seems like it's all gone now. Now my only concern is what will happen if my bones don't ever regrow, and I end up having to get a bone graft surgery.

3) I can finally put on socks/shoes while standing on one leg. I used to do this with ease prior to LL, but it was almost impossible for 1-2 years until I finally got my balance/flexibility/leg muscles back.

4) My calves are getting an amazing workout from the longer femurs. Since it takes more muscles now to lift up my body from a squatting position, my calves are getting an amazing workout from just everyday routines like getting up from a chair/toilet. I've noticed that they're much more cut than prior to LL. Girls have complimented me on my calves, even though I don't even work out my calf muscles much.

5) My butt is still smaller than before LL. I don't think I'll ever get it back without rigorous exercise, because the growth has stopped. My thigh muscles have returned, though. They're hard and thick again.

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Hi DM. How you been doing?,  Got your X-ray results yet?