also hashi in response to this you wrote:
QuoteComplication rate for Dr. Betz patients in our sample is between 36% and 52%. 36% is the best case scenario, 52% is the scenario where the 5 abruptly ending diaries all have had complications.
The real figure probably lies between both numbers in case some of those 5 didn't have complications.
that's not actually correct, that assumes that all the diaries were not either:, fake, altered by sysop, person banned then diary end written by administrator, or any of the many things old forum has been caught doing to alter diaries.
think about how many "good diaries" we got from sarin. how many were lies. for all we know other diaries from bets could have had bad complications and those complications which were negative reviews could have been left out.
all we know is that around 50% of people had complications with his nail, providing every single diary is legit. I speculate that this nail is very unreliable in UPWARDS of 50% of cases. expect to spend extra money on additional surgeries when the nail FAILS.
Dr Augustin Betz (Neunkirchen, Germany) The Betz Institute
Interesting reading. I'm a Betz patient in recovery. Some of you will question my identity but if you want to, you can confirm with blackbear and lucki (both of whom have diaries) that I am who I say I am as I have met them both on multiple occasions.
I think it's worth saying that I've met more Betz patients in-person than the number of diaries that you refer to. I met them in the UK (where I live) and I also met them at various stages of recovery during my own consultation, surgery and recovery. I stay in regular contact with a lot of them as we find each other to be a great sources of information and support for when we have questions. I can say that whilst one or two are struggling with recovery, none have serious issues. When I say "struggle", I just mean that their bodies are slower to recover than some of the others - that's just life.
It is true that every patient is different. Some patients tolerate the challenges and recover fast, others really really struggle. From my personal perspective, I had surgery in Feb, stayed on crutches until June and have been walking without them up until now. My x-rays look great, my consolidation is on-track and (touch wood), I don't have any nail or screw issues. I have followed Dr Betz and Nader's advice very closely and I'm pleased to say that my recovery is good. I do of course have some issues - my legs feel very tight, I still have some numbness on my thighs but on the whole I can walk in a way that is getting very close to normal (my muscles are still weak, as well as tight). Unlike other patients, I am lucky enough to also have a LL surgeon here in the UK that tracks and monitors me. I did this because I wanted a second surgeon taking care of me just in case (what if Dr Betz gets hit by a bus - God forbid). I can say that my UK surgeon has confirmed that there are absolutely no issues so far with my recovery or condition.
I think when people write diaries, one should understand that they're writing at times when they may be experiencing pain. They may be experiencing emotional issues related to their surgery and condition, and these might impact what they write and how they write. Diaries are not a scientific representation of how these patients traversed their LL journeys - no matter how much you try to apply statistics to them. Most patients DO NOT write diaries - they quietly do the surgery and just get on with their lives. No dramas, no issues. When people write about bad bone consolidation, it's not the Doctor's fault. When an open wound gets infected it's just a bit of bad luck, could happen to anyone - in MasterHY's case, it was dealt with quickly anyway. When they disappear there is not catastrophic issue, they usually have lives outside of forums etc.
Honestly, there is so much misinformation here. It bothers me that people are getting such a negative view of Dr Betz when my experience (and my patient friends' experiences) have been mostly positive.
Some personal facts:
1. I asked if I needed titaniums (people here argue that Betz tries to sell you these as an expensive extra). He could have said "YES", but he actually said "NO". He told me that my consolidation was good and there was no need for me to pay the extra money. If he said yes, then I would have paid for them - Dr Betz knows what I do for a living and he knows my financial position - it would not be hard for me to pay for the titaniums.
2. I had the same complication twice. My bone healing was very fast on my left leg and my nail became very hard to click. On both occasions I traveled to Germany, I got booked into hospital, anesthetized and clicked. In both instances, it cost Dr Betz money to rent out the anesthetic doctor, nurses, recovery room and of course his time. He could easily have asked me for money and I would have paid but he did not. In both instances he absorbed the cost without needing to. What can I say? Is this the behavior of a scammer? Make your own decision, but my view is that these are the actions of a good man.
3. On the second occasion (above), Dr Betz was on vacation. He cut his trip short to see me as I had a meeting on Monday and could only see him on Saturday. He did this for my convenience and I am very grateful.
4. While in Germany, Dr Betz was available every day, including Saturday and Sunday. He could choose not to be, but he actually cares about his patients and their progress and takes a very real interest in them. One of the reasons he's hard to reach for consultation is because he's so busy with his patients.
5. His attention to detail is crazy. If you look at another famous patients diary, you will see an x-ray where the screw sticks out a whole cm into the flesh. This was not a betz patient. Betz insists on measuring every screw for each patient and manufactures it to size before using it - did you know that? Minimises irritation and risk. I dont' want to mention names, but another famous surgeon created some issues for another patient with the way he was placing screws.
Guys. If you want to speak to a current patient, feel free to meet me in a major UK city (London, Birmingham or Manchester). I'm happy to share my experiences, advice and concerns. Just send me a personal message. If you want to keep slating Dr Betz then go ahead, for everyone else, please just go and see a few surgeons - Betz, Guichet, whoever. It's not fair to expect Doctors to spend hours on forums - you don't do this before heart or brain surgery, you meet them not chat on forums so please treat your LL in the same serious way.
we don't give a crap about 10 billion people who had LL if they did not write a diary.
out of all the diaries we have the nail failed 50% of the time, these people did not start writing a diary before the nail collapsed or because the nail collapsed: they started writing the diary before the nail collapsed so the statistics are accurate. out of X number of diaries 50% had a nail that was not strong enough.
no one is saying you cant successfully do LL with bets, we are saying his nail is .
don't try and change this into an emotional argument based on feelings.
when a nail fails in 50% of the diaries, I don't give a crap if the gy is a nice man or cares about his patients, its still a crap nail.
and the bull about bets not spending hours upon hours on a forum............ cut the bull , this is about bets not answering a simple question which involves 2 numbers for the 11mm and 13mm nail and their weight bearing capability. it takes 2 seconds but he refused to answer this question to every patient. that makes him a deceiver because he does not want to answer it. it has nothing to do with "spending thousands of hours on a forum". don't try to manipulate what is really going on here.
the doctor is not the problem. the device is. and I bet the doctor knows his device has a high fail rate so he refuses to answer the question.
edit
the second line should have read as:
out of all the diaries we have the nail failed 50% of the time, these people did not start writing a diary after the nail collapsed or because the nail
Quote from: GROWtalORdieTRYING1 on September 17, 2014, 03:19:54 PMwe don't give a crap about 10 billion people who had LL if they did not write a diary.
out of all the diaries we have the nail failed 50% of the time, these people did not start writing a diary before the nail collapsed or because the nail collapsed: they started writing the diary before the nail collapsed so the statistics are accurate. out of X number of diaries 50% had a nail that was not strong enough.
no one is saying you cant successfully do LL with bets, we are saying his nail is s**t.
don't try and change this into an emotional argument based on feelings.
when a nail fails in 50% of the diaries, I don't give a crap if the gy is a nice man or cares about his patients, its still a crap nail.
and the bull s**t about bets not spending hours upon hours on a forum............ cut the bull s**t, this is about bets not answering a simple question which involves 2 numbers for the 11mm and 13mm nail and their weight bearing capability. it takes 2 seconds but he refused to answer this question to every patient. that makes him a deceiver because he does not want to answer it. it has nothing to do with "spending thousands of hours on a forum". don't try to manipulate what is really going on here.
the doctor is not the problem. the device is. and I bet the doctor knows his device has a high fail rate so he refuses to answer the question.
It is very naive not to "give a crap" (as you say) about people that didn't write diaries. If you base your life decisions on evidence that is known to be unrepresentative of the broader population (in your example, 10 billion) then that's your choice lol. If one of my employees took that approach to business I would fire them.
There is an emotional angle to my comments, of course. Surgery is not an entirely scientific process. The human body is unpredictable - some people die form H1N1 and others don't. A big part of LL is all about emotions and your state of my mind and thus a doctor who understands this and keep you sane through the process is actually contributing to improved chances of a good recovery. If anything, I would say your reaction is much more emotional than the comments I made ;-)
Your view that "the nail is " is you opinion - this is fine, get a nail from Guichet or elsewhere. All I can say is that today I walked from one meeting to another in central London, without crutches, without full consolidation and I feel great. I've been doing this for a few weeks, as have my co-patients who are recovering with me. All good. If my nails are to others, well that's cool, because they do the job for me and my co-patients.
Regarding the numbers (11 vs 13mm) - I can't speak for Betz. Maybe he is being too cautious in discussing the specifics. All I can say is that in my business we don't discuss facts in public forums when the recipients of that information appear hostile or could use that information against you - rightly or wrongly. Actually, as I think about it, there is no area of medicine or surgery where a responsible surgeon would publicly commit to anything given that every individual is so truly and utterly different.
well let me first state that your education in statistical analysis is quite lacking. hopefully in time you can see the error in your ability to comprehend why we do not need a sample size of 10 billion studies to determine a hypothesis that the bets nail is not reliable.
you are obviously bias. you love bets because your particular nail did not break. that is fine I am glad you had a good outcome unlike many others. so you are quite welcome to defend him in this unrational manner.
H1N1 was a scam from the beginning. (yes I am qualified to say that) but that is another story.
Regarding the numbers (11 vs 13mm) it is quite clear that because of your emotional attachment for bets due to having successfully changed your life for the better, that you will rationalize anything in order to make him appear as a good man. when in fact the reason people are disgruntled is because when he was asked nicely many time over by many people he refused to answer truthfully.
being dishonest and withholding information tends to make people disgruntled. especially when you are told a nail is weight bearing when it is NOT in 50% of patients.
Geez, if Betz is going to take one's hard earned money, he is obligated to answer all pertinent questions on both of his 'Betz Nails' during the consultation, and even be prepared to back up his answers.
Quote from: gettingtaller on September 17, 2014, 02:36:09 PMInteresting reading. I'm a Betz patient in recovery. Some of you will question my identity but if you want to, you can confirm with blackbear and lucki (both of whom have diaries) that I am who I say I am as I have met them both on multiple occasions.
I think it's worth saying that I've met more Betz patients in-person than the number of diaries that you refer to. I met them in the UK (where I live) and I also met them at various stages of recovery during my own consultation, surgery and recovery. I stay in regular contact with a lot of them as we find each other to be a great sources of information and support for when we have questions. I can say that whilst one or two are struggling with recovery, none have serious issues. When I say "struggle", I just mean that their bodies are slower to recover than some of the others - that's just life.
It is true that every patient is different. Some patients tolerate the challenges and recover fast, others really really struggle. From my personal perspective, I had surgery in Feb, stayed on crutches until June and have been walking without them up until now. My x-rays look great, my consolidation is on-track and (touch wood), I don't have any nail or screw issues. I have followed Dr Betz and Nader's advice very closely and I'm pleased to say that my recovery is good. I do of course have some issues - my legs feel very tight, I still have some numbness on my thighs but on the whole I can walk in a way that is getting very close to normal (my muscles are still weak, as well as tight). Unlike other patients, I am lucky enough to also have a LL surgeon here in the UK that tracks and monitors me. I did this because I wanted a second surgeon taking care of me just in case (what if Dr Betz gets hit by a bus - God forbid). I can say that my UK surgeon has confirmed that there are absolutely no issues so far with my recovery or condition.
I think when people write diaries, one should understand that they're writing at times when they may be experiencing pain. They may be experiencing emotional issues related to their surgery and condition, and these might impact what they write and how they write. Diaries are not a scientific representation of how these patients traversed their LL journeys - no matter how much you try to apply statistics to them. Most patients DO NOT write diaries - they quietly do the surgery and just get on with their lives. No dramas, no issues. When people write about bad bone consolidation, it's not the Doctor's fault. When an open wound gets infected it's just a bit of bad luck, could happen to anyone - in MasterHY's case, it was dealt with quickly anyway. When they disappear there is not catastrophic issue, they usually have lives outside of forums etc.
Honestly, there is so much misinformation here. It bothers me that people are getting such a negative view of Dr Betz when my experience (and my patient friends' experiences) have been mostly positive.
Some personal facts:
1. I asked if I needed titaniums (people here argue that Betz tries to sell you these as an expensive extra). He could have said "YES", but he actually said "NO". He told me that my consolidation was good and there was no need for me to pay the extra money. If he said yes, then I would have paid for them - Dr Betz knows what I do for a living and he knows my financial position - it would not be hard for me to pay for the titaniums.
2. I had the same complication twice. My bone healing was very fast on my left leg and my nail became very hard to click. On both occasions I traveled to Germany, I got booked into hospital, anesthetized and clicked. In both instances, it cost Dr Betz money to rent out the anesthetic doctor, nurses, recovery room and of course his time. He could easily have asked me for money and I would have paid but he did not. In both instances he absorbed the cost without needing to. What can I say? Is this the behavior of a scammer? Make your own decision, but my view is that these are the actions of a good man.
3. On the second occasion (above), Dr Betz was on vacation. He cut his trip short to see me as I had a meeting on Monday and could only see him on Saturday. He did this for my convenience and I am very grateful.
4. While in Germany, Dr Betz was available every day, including Saturday and Sunday. He could choose not to be, but he actually cares about his patients and their progress and takes a very real interest in them. One of the reasons he's hard to reach for consultation is because he's so busy with his patients.
5. His attention to detail is crazy. If you look at another famous patients diary, you will see an x-ray where the screw sticks out a whole cm into the flesh. This was not a betz patient. Betz insists on measuring every screw for each patient and manufactures it to size before using it - did you know that? Minimises irritation and risk. I dont' want to mention names, but another famous surgeon created some issues for another patient with the way he was placing screws.
Guys. If you want to speak to a current patient, feel free to meet me in a major UK city (London, Birmingham or Manchester). I'm happy to share my experiences, advice and concerns. Just send me a personal message. If you want to keep slating Dr Betz then go ahead, for everyone else, please just go and see a few surgeons - Betz, Guichet, whoever. It's not fair to expect Doctors to spend hours on forums - you don't do this before heart or brain surgery, you meet them not chat on forums so please treat your LL in the same serious way.
Was the famous patient Leechlet and his doctor, Guichet?
If it's true that the nail failure rate is as high as 50%, and he is not disclosing this information than he is gambling with peoples time and money. He would be obligated to add a weight limit stipulation for both the 11mm & 13mm nails &b disclose the specs for the nails. If not then he would be an unethical, uncaring, and greedy doctor if he ignores the problem by looking the other way.
On the flip side maybe all the patients who had nail failure were too damn careless all of the time.
Quote from: galaxy1 on September 18, 2014, 05:50:19 AM
On the flip side maybe all the patients who had nail failure were too damn careless all of the time.
I honestly believe there is some truth to this point. I was just personal messaging with a member here and he asked me about consolidation. One of the big no-nos of recovery is drinking alchohol. Booze kills your body's ability to create new bone, but despite the doctor's advice i saw some (mostly younger patients) still knocking back beers like it didn't matter - and then they complain about consolidation problems. Incidentally, I'm 40 so a little older than most LL patients. Add to that, patients that decide to go sky diving (oh yes), clubbing and do water sports (I mention no names!).
I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I think I'm the first patient to have both the 11mm and the 13mm nails. Betz doesn't like reaming your marrow hole if the 13 doesn't fit (introduces lots of new risks) and so he prefers to insert the 11 in that case. My 11 has been fine so far. My 13mm leg (right) has been the weaker one throughout and so my left leg has been supporting my right leg ever since I got off crutches; bizarrely therefore my 11mm nail has been supporting my 13m nail :-)
To GROWtalORdieTRYING1: the 10billion patient sample was in reference to your flippant remark about basing all of your conclusions on a tiny number of diaries. There is no need to be offensive every time your fingers touch the keyboard ;-)For what it's worth, I'm a former research scientist so stats were my life (I've since got a real life by leaving research and running a global business - much more fun!). This also means that I see the weakness in stats - like when you base important life decisions on the murmurings of a small number of people who decided to post their diaries online lol.
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