Have questions you'd like to ask someone who had LL six years ago? Ask them here

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Posted on Oct 17, 2013, 12:31 am

#1

I was a tibia-lengthening patient at the Beijing Institute of External Fixation for five months in 2007. I went back and had my internal nails removed in late 2008. I'm done with LL but wanted to come back and share my knowledge with current and future LLers.

I'm currently working on a diary about my LL experience called "Fear and Lengthening in Beijing" that you can find in the Diaries section. But if you have any questions, go ahead and ask them here. Unlike the people on that old forum, I'm happy to answer anything here even if it's been mentioned in my diary, just in case you don't feel like reading the whole thing.

More about me:
Race/sex: White, Male
My age when I had LL: 25
Starting height and weight: 5'7" 138 lbs.
Current height and weight: 5"10" 138 lbs.

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Posted on Oct 17, 2013, 4:47 am

#2

Quote from: Sweden on October 17, 2013, 12:52:01 AMHow long did it take until you could run, not walk, down stairs?

Can you sprint?(like Usain Bolt on 100 meters, but not equal fast...)

Do you feel any strain or tightness in any part of your body?

Would you dare to jump down from 1-2 meters up?

I could run down stairs and sprint as soon as I'd healed up from the IM nail removal surgery. I was really careful with my legs while the nails were in, so I never tried doing either of those things until they were removed. I used a leg press machine at a gym and ran short distances but that was the most I did while I had the IM nails. I think most IM nail issues are caused by slow bone consolidation and/or too much physical activity.

When I squat, I feel some pressure in my knees. The knees are also sensitive when I kneel on hard surfaces. They're also a little stiff but they do have a full range of motion; if they were made of metal I'd think they were a tiny bit rusty. This stiffness goes away if I do kickboxing exercises but comes back in a few hours. I think all of these knee issues could've been avoided by doing external-only. Cutting open the knees twice, once to put the IM nails in and then again to pull them back out was a lot of knee surgery. I'm fine with my 5'10 height, but if I wasn't I still might not do femurs due to fear of developing hip issues similar to what's happening in my knees.

I don't have any ankle or foot issues. My hamstring flexibility is as good as it was before LL, but my quadriceps flexibility is a little bit worse (just a tiny bit) but I have no idea why.

I would jump down from one meter, sure. I've done that quite a few times. I'd jump down two meters if I had to and I doubt my legs would break like Sid Eudy's (Google "Sid Vicious WCW leg break" if you're not squeamish). I'd be mostly worried about what would happen to my knees from that two meter drop. The tibiae themselves are really solid.

Quote from: TomD on October 17, 2013, 01:13:01 AMQuestion I have is, you are 3 inches taller but weigh the same? I would imagine you would weigh a little more right?

When I got out of the hospital I weighed about 130. Almost everyone there lost weight; some people lost significantly more than my 8 pounds. I weighed as much as 160 a year ago but I was eating a lot and not exercising very often. Now I'm eating less and exercising more than ever. But yeah, it's surprising how little 6 inches of human leg (3" on each side) actually weighs.

Quote from: LiveLife on October 17, 2013, 01:21:11 AM1. What is your wingspan?
2. What do you think of your proportions? Have your thoughts changed over time?
3. Any regrets?

Very nice of you to be available to us. Thank you.

1. 5'10" so it's equal to my height now.
2. I think my proportions are fine. Nobody's ever mentioned anything about my legs looking strange.
3. I regret not being able to be happy with myself when I was 5'7". Lots of people shorter than that manage to be happy. Why couldn't I? Also I regret having the IM nails put in for the reasons explained above, although I can't be 100% certain I wouldn't be having those issues if I'd done external-only.

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Quote from: Sweden on October 17, 2013, 12:52:01 AMHow long did it take until you could run, not walk, down stairs?

Can you sprint?(like Usain Bolt on 100 meters, but not equal fast...)

Do you feel any strain or tightness in any part of your body?

Would you dare to jump down from 1-2 meters up?

I could run down stairs and sprint as soon as I'd healed up from the IM nail removal surgery. I was really careful with my legs while the nails were in, so I never tried doing either of those things until they were removed. I used a leg press machine at a gym and ran short distances but that was the most I did while I had the IM nails. I think most IM nail issues are caused by slow bone consolidation and/or too much physical activity.

When I squat, I feel some pressure in my knees. The knees are also sensitive when I kneel on hard surfaces. They're also a little stiff but they do have a full range of motion; if they were made of metal I'd think they were a tiny bit rusty. This stiffness goes away if I do kickboxing exercises but comes back in a few hours. I think all of these knee issues could've been avoided by doing external-only. Cutting open the knees twice, once to put the IM nails in and then again to pull them back out was a lot of knee surgery. I'm fine with my 5'10 height, but if I wasn't I still might not do femurs due to fear of developing hip issues similar to what's happening in my knees.

I don't have any ankle or foot issues. My hamstring flexibility is as good as it was before LL, but my quadriceps flexibility is a little bit worse (just a tiny bit) but I have no idea why.

I would jump down from one meter, sure. I've done that quite a few times. I'd jump down two meters if I had to and I doubt my legs would break like Sid Eudy's (Google "Sid Vicious WCW leg break" if you're not squeamish). I'd be mostly worried about what would happen to my knees from that two meter drop. The tibiae themselves are really solid.

Quote from: TomD on October 17, 2013, 01:13:01 AMQuestion I have is, you are 3 inches taller but weigh the same? I would imagine you would weigh a little more right?

When I got out of the hospital I weighed about 130. Almost everyone there lost weight; some people lost significantly more than my 8 pounds. I weighed as much as 160 a year ago but I was eating a lot and not exercising very often. Now I'm eating less and exercising more than ever. But yeah, it's surprising how little 6 inches of human leg (3" on each side) actually weighs.

Quote from: LiveLife on October 17, 2013, 01:21:11 AM1. What is your wingspan?
2. What do you think of your proportions? Have your thoughts changed over time?
3. Any regrets?

Very nice of you to be available to us. Thank you.

1. 5'10" so it's equal to my height now.
2. I think my proportions are fine. Nobody's ever mentioned anything about my legs looking strange.
3. I regret not being able to be happy with myself when I was 5'7". Lots of people shorter than that manage to be happy. Why couldn't I? Also I regret having the IM nails put in for the reasons explained above, although I can't be 100% certain I wouldn't be having those issues if I'd done external-only.

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Posted on Oct 17, 2013, 3:43 pm

#3

Quote from: Sweden on October 17, 2013, 06:52:31 AMI can relate to the knee issues and I'm afraid to take out the nail in India. I hope I can do that here in Sweden. The fact that you don't feel anything when you're doing kickboxing is bc you have such greater blood flow in your knees.

I'm still going to do my femurs. The great issue there is that EVERYONE will get it and I'm passing my wingspan with 6cm. But my shins are too long with +7cm. I don't recommend doing more than 5cm - for several reasons.

I am 180cm now but I still feel short. ALL of my friends are either equal or taller.

Hehe yeah, I can relate to still feeling short at 5'10 in some countries. I went to the Netherlands and it seemed like almost all the men were taller than me. Even when I thought I saw a short guy from far away, he ended up being about my height when he got closer.

Quote from: somecm on October 17, 2013, 12:44:26 PMYour issues on your knees in my opnion aren't because you opened your knee two times. For me it is because you did 3 inches on tibias, what makes your knee work harder. 7.5 cm on tibias is almost the same of doing 10 on femurs. This problem on your knees would be reduced if you did some cm on your femur to balance. I had titanium inside my femurs after lengthening with internals and i removed them, so I had to open my hips 4 times, and I actually don't feel anything on it. I think this issue you said has more to do with the amount you lengthen. For me ideal is 5 cm on tibias or 7 cm on femurs or both. However, I am sure you can "survive" very well with this knee issues.

I was having knee stiffness/inflammation problems almost the entire time I was in Beijing, so I don't think it was caused by too much lengthening. I was at less than 2cm when these problems started. Some other patients told me I should just stop lengthening, but I didn't listen to them. The problems were a few inches above where the lengthening was taking place, and I wasn't going to spend $25000 and not get my height.

I think my joints/tendons are just more sensitive than average.

Nobody should read this discussion and decide not to get IM nails, and nobody should read this discussion and decide to get 5cm if they really wanted 7.5. Each LL case is unique, so your results can and will vary.

Edit Post

Quote from: Sweden on October 17, 2013, 06:52:31 AMI can relate to the knee issues and I'm afraid to take out the nail in India. I hope I can do that here in Sweden. The fact that you don't feel anything when you're doing kickboxing is bc you have such greater blood flow in your knees.

I'm still going to do my femurs. The great issue there is that EVERYONE will get it and I'm passing my wingspan with 6cm. But my shins are too long with +7cm. I don't recommend doing more than 5cm - for several reasons.

I am 180cm now but I still feel short. ALL of my friends are either equal or taller.

Hehe yeah, I can relate to still feeling short at 5'10 in some countries. I went to the Netherlands and it seemed like almost all the men were taller than me. Even when I thought I saw a short guy from far away, he ended up being about my height when he got closer.

Quote from: somecm on October 17, 2013, 12:44:26 PMYour issues on your knees in my opnion aren't because you opened your knee two times. For me it is because you did 3 inches on tibias, what makes your knee work harder. 7.5 cm on tibias is almost the same of doing 10 on femurs. This problem on your knees would be reduced if you did some cm on your femur to balance. I had titanium inside my femurs after lengthening with internals and i removed them, so I had to open my hips 4 times, and I actually don't feel anything on it. I think this issue you said has more to do with the amount you lengthen. For me ideal is 5 cm on tibias or 7 cm on femurs or both. However, I am sure you can "survive" very well with this knee issues.

I was having knee stiffness/inflammation problems almost the entire time I was in Beijing, so I don't think it was caused by too much lengthening. I was at less than 2cm when these problems started. Some other patients told me I should just stop lengthening, but I didn't listen to them. The problems were a few inches above where the lengthening was taking place, and I wasn't going to spend $25000 and not get my height.

I think my joints/tendons are just more sensitive than average.

Nobody should read this discussion and decide not to get IM nails, and nobody should read this discussion and decide to get 5cm if they really wanted 7.5. Each LL case is unique, so your results can and will vary.

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Posted on Oct 18, 2013, 1:07 am

#4

I barely felt the IM nails at all on the machine. I was surprised at how quickly I was able to regain the strength in my legs. It only took a few months before I was leg pressing at my pre-LL level. Those IM nails can support a lot of weight if you're doing something smoothly and with correct form; it was forceful/jarring impacts that caused me to feel like there was some foreign object in my leg.

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Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 11:21 pm

#5

I worked out regularly anyway, so I didn't need to do any special preparation. My fitness level was quite good going in to LL.

Physical fitness didn't seem to matter that much during the lengthening phase, when the fixators were on. In general the fitter people had an easier time of it, but not that much easier.

The biggest differences I observed were related to the consolidation/recovery phase with the IM nails. The less fit people took longer to recover and get their IM nails out, and were more prone to IM nail problems while they were in.

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Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 6:13 pm

#6

Quote from: VegasLights on November 16, 2013, 04:00:48 PMDo you play any contact sports now? E.g. football (soccer).

Curious to know how this may have impacted your abilities.

Regarding your knee problems, is this a common thing with internals? I've always read that internals is a "better" method and less risky than external, but the knee problem is pretty worrisome. I can only imagine it'd get worse with old age, unfortunately.

Did you have physiotherapy lessons when you returned home? Do you occasionally still have them at all?

I've never played contact sports. I'm a little slower, a little less agile, and have less endurance in my legs. That would certainly negatively affect performance, but I'm not sure by how much. My muscles just never grew big/strong enough to match the new bone length, although my flexibility is excellent. The bone is as strong as natural bone now, so my risk of breaking my legs isn't any higher than it would have been without LL.

When I look at pictures of knee anatomy, it appears that the issue is with my patellar tendon. That's where the stiffness and sensitivity are. I know that they split that tendon vertically and stretch it apart to create an opening to insert/remove IM nails. This is the standard way of doing it everywhere, not just a Beijing technique. I don't know how common it is, but it's worth mentioning that I've had an issue with inflammation in my wrists/hands before when I was working with computers all day, so I might be more prone to this type of problem than others.

I did go to an American physiotherapist when I got home. I think I made about six visits. It didn't need to be an ongoing thing. She showed me exercises and stretches, all of which could be done on my own once I'd learned to do them properly.

Edit Post

Quote from: VegasLights on November 16, 2013, 04:00:48 PMDo you play any contact sports now? E.g. football (soccer).

Curious to know how this may have impacted your abilities.

Regarding your knee problems, is this a common thing with internals? I've always read that internals is a "better" method and less risky than external, but the knee problem is pretty worrisome. I can only imagine it'd get worse with old age, unfortunately.

Did you have physiotherapy lessons when you returned home? Do you occasionally still have them at all?

I've never played contact sports. I'm a little slower, a little less agile, and have less endurance in my legs. That would certainly negatively affect performance, but I'm not sure by how much. My muscles just never grew big/strong enough to match the new bone length, although my flexibility is excellent. The bone is as strong as natural bone now, so my risk of breaking my legs isn't any higher than it would have been without LL.

When I look at pictures of knee anatomy, it appears that the issue is with my patellar tendon. That's where the stiffness and sensitivity are. I know that they split that tendon vertically and stretch it apart to create an opening to insert/remove IM nails. This is the standard way of doing it everywhere, not just a Beijing technique. I don't know how common it is, but it's worth mentioning that I've had an issue with inflammation in my wrists/hands before when I was working with computers all day, so I might be more prone to this type of problem than others.

I did go to an American physiotherapist when I got home. I think I made about six visits. It didn't need to be an ongoing thing. She showed me exercises and stretches, all of which could be done on my own once I'd learned to do them properly.

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Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 5:47 am

#7

Just to clarify, what I regret is not being able to be happy with myself at my previous height. Most likely that would never have happened though, so I don't regret having the surgery. It changed my life for the better, much for the better. My self-confidence skyrocketed after I got home from Beijing, and I had a completely different outlook on life. LL is better than any antidepressant. It's a treatment for mental illness or dwarfism. No mentally stable 5'7" person needs LL.

I saw a doctor about my knees but all he did was give me some Prednisone which didn't help any. Cortisone injections make it all better but those aren't a long-term treatment option.

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Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 11:53 pm

#8

Quote from: Russianblues on November 17, 2013, 09:05:11 PMDid you ever experience bitterness or disillusionment towards society for treating you differently due to a change in such a superficial factor that has little bearing on who you are as a person?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "had a completely different outlook on life".

Thanks for doing this.

No, I wasn't bitter toward society. The person who judged me the harshest was always me. I was and still am one of society's worst offenders when it comes to being superficial, so that'd be kind of hypocritical anyway.

Have questions you'd like to ask someone who had LL six years ago? Ask them here

Before LL, I knew what it would take for me to be happy - become rich and famous. Movie Star and Rock Star were my only choices. I'd get famous or keep trying no matter what, even if I was writing songs in the gutter between acting auditions. No matter how unlikely, I had to go for it because there was no other life I could see myself living. There never really was a plan B, just some vague idea that I might quit and figure something else out if I hadn't made it big by the time I was old.

When I came back from Beijing, I started to think that having a regular job and a wife was an acceptable life. The Napoleon complex was gone. It was okay for me to have a normal life and be an average person. Four years later I had a bachelor's degree.

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Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 7:10 am

#9

Quote from: BilateralDamage on November 19, 2013, 04:27:03 AMWhat did you tell people when they asked about your height increase?

Do you think you should have opted for 2 different surgeries with lower height increases on each?

My mother was kind enough to tell everyone with ears that I was getting the surgery. I couldn't believe her lack of discretion. Guess I should've said DO NOT TELL ANYONE I AM GETTING LEG LENGTHENING. But oh well, that ship sailed before I knew it had pulled up anchor. Some people we don't see very often believed me when I told them I grew.

I'm not sure about the two surgeries instead of one. I can see the advantage in theory of not stretching out one bone segment so much, but that's a lot of cutting and reaming and money to do two operations. And I don't know which problems I'd still have and which ones I wouldn't. Someday some identical twins are going to have to settle the issue once and for all.

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Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 3:17 pm

#10

Quote from: Russianblues on November 19, 2013, 11:13:59 AMIf possible can you compare the benefits of going from 5'7 --> 5'10 and going from 5'10--> 6'1. I can't find where you said what country you are from?
'

I think the most benefit from LL is going from short to average. In my opinion average height should be the goal of every LLer. It doesn't seem worth it to go from average to tall.

Being short has drawbacks, being tall has benefits. Getting rid of those drawbacks will change your life way more than gaining the benefits of being tall.

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