Let's talk about the elephant in the room: Body dysmorphia

Im going to do the most i can to not gatekeep or underestimate the suffering of some guys because their height, but, here are some dudes willing to break their legs and spend above 50k being just a little bit under the average height where they live or even taller sometimes.
I mean, come on, some of you who are in a average range obviously have some social anxiety problem and your body its the main preoccupation about your aspect that trigger the anxiety.
Thats a psychological state that has developed through past experiences and it makes you risk your health huguley just to confront some body dysmorphia that a teraphys can cure in some weeks or months.
Im not talking about short guys, i understand anyone who is in the low end of the distribution and they are barely taller than women or even shorter... a lot shorter in some cases. But for those who are in the average range, CLL surgery its not the way, as a high risk procedure, not just really expensive, but risky, and if you think that a couple cm more will solve your dating problems or inferiority complex problems, the real matter its very likely in other thing, not your height.
Im not just a random dude in the internet, i have some notion about behavioral therapy and, even my english sucks, i know what im talking about if i guess that a lot of guys here have a severe body dysmorphia and a social axiety problem that can be solved in therapy, and after that you will no longer even think about this forum or going to some clinic in the other side of the world to do this procedure.
Again, im not talking about the short guys, as a (very) short guy of myself i understand that it's difficult to confront some things in life, mainly dating, but about the guys who complain about how much they hate being whatever height they are, in a CLL forum, being, well, just average height guys.

I mean I’m 5’5.5” and obviously the benefits of going from short to average are much higher than average to tall, but there are still benefits for the latter. The latter is more a point of vanity, an obsession with being the “perfect” height. But I don’t see it any different than a pretty girl who gets filler and Botox to become even prettier. I say let people do what they want to do. When you’re already tall (6’0”+) and want to get the surgery then I’d say there’s a serious psychological issue there.

While I agree with some of your assertions, I would like to give you some perspective; as an almost 5'9" person, I can tell you there is this pressure you feel around people taller than you, it can affect deeply your social life, your self perception, your self esteem. And, it's not limited exclusevely to the shortest ranges of the spectrum.

I agree, we all should see a therapist before going to the procedure, but as a support for the decision. Yes, it's an extreme surgery, but in my opinion its worth it. I would argue (in my own opinion) there are 2 kind of people who should not going for it, the taller guys, and the extremely short ones. The taller ones like the shortest people won't see a sustantial difference in terms of looks in general, like that bodybuilder freak monstrosity who went with butcher Buldu, or for the contrary a 5'2 person who will risk A LOT to get the max height possible and still be short.

Someone in my height range would see the most benefit.

There are a lot of nuances and details, and everything vary from person to person. But that would be my two cents.

It’s an interesting topic. Almost all data on the subject shows that going from say 172 cm (5’7.5”) to say 179 cm (5’10”) has the largest positive result on increasing dating pool and perhaps salary.

This is because you go from maybe 1 standard deviation below the mean male height to the mean or above it.

So if we quantify the cost benefit ratio there would be a strong objective argument in favor of guys below the mean but close.

As to body dysmorphia: I think height is a different category than say your nose or some other body part. It is the level from which you see the outside world, and your most prominent physical feature, which we know carries a lot of weight to it.

So I don’t think you could say anyone below average, but not too far below, has body dysmorphia for considering CLL. Although you couldn’t exclude it either.

But if your argument is that people too close to the mean should not do CLL where would you put the limit? One standard deviation below the mean? Two? Three?

Quote from: TheDream on December 10, 2023, 12:14:28 AMIt’s an interesting topic. Almost all data on the subject shows that going from say 172 cm (5’7.5”) to say 179 cm (5’10”) has the largest positive result on increasing dating pool and perhaps salary.

Not what i mean, i start from the fact that this surgery is risky, expensive and it take at least 1/3 or a year since the start and being completly able to walk normally. If you are, lets say 5'7 in north america, yeah, i could be a problem to get girls most fo the time, but if you simply cant at all, its about other thing, not your height, but things you can change, like self care, beign more interesting, getting more practise in socializing and so on. If you are in the average range and you care so much about your height that you are willing to do this procedure, very likely you have some social axiety problem and and you body dysmorphia can be solved wih some good therapy, at the point you are not going to obsess ever again about your height at this point, just some ocassional "damn, i wish i was taller", thats all
Its totally diferent to guys who are even shorter than girls, lets say 5'3, this operation its equivalent to a guy in crutches being able to walk again without them, going from being totally different to other guys to entering in the average range, the shorter one, but the average anyway, its a huge change, it makes you feel normal.

Quote from: sxxa on December 09, 2023, 07:41:36 PM The taller ones like the shortest people won't see a sustantial difference in terms of looks in general, like that bodybuilder freak monstrosity who went with butcher Buldu, or for the contrary a 5'2 person who will risk A LOT to get the max height possible and still be short.

I cant disagree more, the shorter guys at that height, with ths surgery get out from being short in an abnormal range, to just short, like a guy in crutches bieng able to walk normally again, not able to run but walk at least.
Guys at 5'8 who are willing to do this risky and expensive procedurre just for being a little under average, have to realize that, if they are considereing this seriously, very likely the real problem its in other thing, not their height

I would argue that the benefit of LL differs a bit qualitatively at different heights.
Height obeys a normal variation, which means that sampling a group of people (males or females) from a population will tend to a graph like the one below.


A central peak will reflect the most frequent height of the population. Taking a step left of the peak moves you to a lower height. The height of the curve reflects the frequency the underlying height has in the population. This is slightly simplified, but works for the argument.

At a few steps to the left, we have people with mildly/moderately short posture (like 5'8"). They are near average, but still below it. Having LL at this height will move them near the peak, or even past it. Due to the range of the normal variation traversed by this height increase (ie the most "frequent" and steepest region), the practical effect is: moving from being "short" to "tall", surpassing a significant fraction of the population, height-wise – that is a huge qualitative benefit.

At lower heights (conventional short posture), the height increase gained by LL moves the patient from a point of being an "extreme statistical outlier" (or near it) to "within the normal variation." They likely will not get "tall", at least not with one lengthening – but they will become "normal". I reckon that is good reasoning for undergoing lengthening, too.

Maxwell

Yeah, its about being normal, thats what is all about for the shorter dudes. Stoping being the outlier to enter in the shorter side of the normal distribution.

Quote from: Metaphyglv on December 10, 2023, 03:50:04 AMI cant disagree more, the shorter guys at that height, with ths surgery get out from being short in an abnormal range, to just short, like a guy in crutches bieng able to walk normally again, not able to run but walk at least.
Guys at 5'8 who are willing to do this risky and expensive procedurre just for being a little under average, have to realize that, if they are considereing this seriously, very likely the real problem its in other thing, not their height

My premise is in purely quantitative terms, and outcome. A extremely short person won't see a sustantial difference in terms of height even if they hipotetically go for the max height possible, also we should always remember going for the max imply several risks factors which could end badly. My opinion is risk-benefit from shorter guys (and taller) is not worth it. Risk outperform benefit. There is no point for going from 5'3 to 5'8 if you will barely be able to walk in the best case, or look like a freak with uneven proportions.

Reaching a short but "normal" height after being an outlier all your life, its a huge change, even if you end up being just 5'5 after that, it's totally different than being 5'2. That initial height put you in a very unfavorable position, and plus 6 or 7 cm  is a whole new word. For just "under average guys" who want to be average or taller, is just an upgrade, not a life changing surgery.

What you are implying is that if you are very short is not worth it to do this surgery, you are a lost case, go to live alone in the forest.
Nah, we are talking about individual people and their willingness to live their best life, not some utilitarianism equation. And even if is that the case, the amount of "utility" its a lot more in my case scenario than yours, i think.