Where do you think it stems from? Is it just the fact that it's the closest round measurment beyond the 5 foot heights and so has come to signify the standard of tallness? I've heard that in European countries, 180cm is the standard for that reason.
I mean, do people even know what six foot looks like? Can they distinguish it from other heights? I certainly can't tell if someone is six foot or not -- only that they are relatively tall. I don't think I'd be able to guess someone's height within about an inch either side of six foot; and that degree of accuracy I put down to being nearish average height myself.
In this case, it must be way harder for women to actually deduce what six foot looks like. So perhaps 5'11 and 6foot are basically the same thing.
I'm 5'8.5, and could potentially lengthen tibias to get to six foot and achieve a 1:1 tibia/femur ratio. Obviously, there's the recovery implications for lengthening that much, which I'm heavily considering, but ignoring that for the movement and focusing on the context of this discussion; is it in anyway worth pushing for six foot and not just going for 5'11?
With such a big operation, it's easy to have anxiety about pushing for as much height as you can get without it being exponentially detrimental, and to be able to get to 5'11 relatively easily, it's hard not to wonder weather pushing for that extra inch (the maximum) is worth it or not.
Thoughts? Thanks!
Regarding the obsession with being six foot
Quote from: DanishViking on June 20, 2023, 02:52:08 PMMost people from my experience (I have worked in field marketing approching thousands of people) think that your're about 1-2 inches / 2,5-5 cm taller than what you actually are. Usually because of shoes but if your're lean or have a nice slim style clothing, that can help you as well. So no even if your're 5'10 without shoes and then wearing shoes in public, most people would consider you tall. Between 5'8 to 5'10 / 172 - 178 cm in the western world without shoes is were most people perceive you as standard. 5'6 to 5'8 / 167 - 172 cm is when your're standard short and under that it's starting to become unsually short and you will properly experience discrimination and get comments. However you could just love yourself enough to not care if you work enough on yourself. Height is definitly not anything and NOT the most important aspect of being a man. Confidence, style, social skills, face matters much more, at least inside Europe. HOWEVER the shorter you are, the more it matters and becomes an issue for women when it comes to dating. Espically under 5'6 / 167 cm, when your're shorter than almost all guys. I'm talking about how it is in Europe btw, never traveled to the US but have heard that they care more about height over there.
This guy is from the US 174 cm / 5'8'5 WITHOUT SHOES and pretty much every single person he asks in the video, finds him to be about average height and NOT short.
Oh and don't do Tibia only!!
Most people start to get complications after 4,5 cm according to cyborg4life and most surgeons set the safe limit to 5 cm for tibias. In generel doing tibias is a stupid idea unless your're planning on doing both segments femur + tibia or you find out after x-ray scanning that you have abnormally long femurs compared to tibias.
They heal slower, have a higher complication rate, increase chance of joint problems / early arthisis, less overall safe length achieved / cutting 2 bones (tibia+fibula) vs 1 for femur etc.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83172.0 (this guy did what you want and got a horrible outcome...
- see 11:50 - 14:40
So since my night height is 162cm without socks, I am considered as 165cm or even taller?? If so I will claim myself as 165+cm tall lmfao
Quote from: DanishViking on June 20, 2023, 02:52:08 PMMost people from my experience (I have worked in field marketing approching thousands of people) think that your're about 1-2 inches / 2,5-5 cm taller than what you actually are. Usually because of shoes but if your're lean or have a nice slim style clothing, that can help you as well. So no even if your're 5'10 without shoes and then wearing shoes in public, most people would consider you tall. Between 5'8 to 5'10 / 172 - 178 cm in the western world without shoes is were most people perceive you as standard. 5'6 to 5'8 / 167 - 172 cm is when your're standard short and under that it's starting to become unsually short and you will properly experience discrimination and get comments. However you could just love yourself enough to not care if you work enough on yourself. Height is definitly not anything and NOT the most important aspect of being a man. Confidence, style, social skills, face matters much more, at least inside Europe. HOWEVER the shorter you are, the more it matters and becomes an issue for women when it comes to dating. Espically under 5'6 / 167 cm, when your're shorter than almost all guys. I'm talking about how it is in Europe btw, never traveled to the US but have heard that they care more about height over there.
This guy is from the US 174 cm / 5'8'5 WITHOUT SHOES and pretty much every single person he asks in the video, finds him to be about average height and NOT short.
Oh and don't do Tibia only!!
Most people start to get complications after 4,5 cm according to cyborg4life and most surgeons set the safe limit to 5 cm for tibias. In generel doing tibias is a stupid idea unless your're planning on doing both segments femur + tibia or you find out after x-ray scanning that you have abnormally long femurs compared to tibias.
They heal slower, have a higher complication rate, increase chance of joint problems / early arthisis, less overall safe length achieved / cutting 2 bones (tibia+fibula) vs 1 for femur etc.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=83172.0 (this guy did what you want and got a horrible outcome...
- see 11:50 - 14:40
You keep writing nonsense about tibia LL. No need to write again why almost all you wrote about the superiority of femur LL cimpared to tibia is bs. But the only truth is that external tibias is the safest way to do LL and the cheapest. And uonto 6-6.5cm are safe for almost any LLer, at least not less than 8cm on femurs.
I agree about most.of the other things about height you wrote but stop spreading false data about tibia LL. And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned, if he doesn't want any internal nail to keep his surgery safer, less painful and cheaper the only way to do it is tibia LL.
Quote from: Body Builder on June 20, 2023, 06:02:53 PMYou keep writing nonsense about tibia LL. No need to write again why almost all you wrote about the superiority of femur LL cimpared to tibia is bs. But the only truth is that external tibias is the safest way to do LL and the cheapest. And uonto 6-6.5cm are safe for almost any LLer, at least not less than 8cm on femurs.
I agree about most.of the other things about height you wrote but stop spreading false data about tibia LL. And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned, if he doesn't want any internal nail to keep his surgery safer, less painful and cheaper the only way to do it is tibia LL.
I understand the argument of doing completely external tibia lengthening, which would avoid having to go through the patella in order to insert the nail. But with the massive downside of having to wear the bulky frames until the bone can fully consolidate, versus something like LATN where you can weight bear once the rod is secured and the bone is stabilized.
"external tibias is the safest way to do LL"
How do you quantify safety? Because the risk of infection with an internal nail is essentially zero, particularly when the surgical wounds have healed and your skin and stitches are no longer open(Only takes about a week), versus external which--
"This can range from a simple superficial pin tract infection to life- or limb-threatening infections, such as necrotising fasciitis (NF) or toxic shock syndrome (TSS)"
"The incidence of pin tract infection with the long-term use of external fixators is reported to range from 11.3% to 100%"
Source: https://boneandjoint.org.uk/Article/10.1302/0301-620X.97B9.35626
So while superficial infections are common, and serious/life threatening infections are extremely uncommon, the fact is that it can be avoided by just using an internal lengthening device. Why risk getting a deep bone infection? As long as the wound is open, you are at a constant risk of developing an infection.
And from the study DanishViking posted, which I talked about extensively in another thread too--
"Increasing tibia length relative to femur length was found to be a significant predictor of ipsilateral hip and knee arthritis. Therefore, we recommend that when performing limb lengthening, surgical planning should lean toward recreating the normal ratio of 0.80."
So explain to me how you can say "external tibias is the safest way to do LL" and "And of course someone who.want only.on LL can do tibias and as I mentioned". What body of evidence are you drawing that conclusion from? What reputable Doctor holds the same opinion as yours?
Here's another study talking about infections with external fixators.
"Most infections were mild or moderate, whereas only 3 (9%) severe deep infections were noted (grade 5)"
So with a sample size of 30, 3 or 9% of them had severe deep infections. Granted, these are trauma patients with an age range of 7-19, but that's who these external frames are for. Not cosmetic patients like us!
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022346807002874
I cannot deny that external fixators such as TSF are the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. But why are we discussing how to do this incredibly invasive procedure cheaply? Why are we pretending that this is a valid option for a cosmetic procedure? I don't believe very many of us, if any at all, are here because of dwarfism or are a trauma patient. So why are we using external fixators?
Because people want to do this surgery for as cheap as possible.
If you want to risk your own legs, that's up to you! But it is wrong to not accurately describe what we're dealing with here!
Quote from: NailedLegs on June 20, 2023, 07:06:11 PM
I cannot deny that external fixators such as TSF are the cheapest way to do Limb Lengthening. But why are we discussing how to do this incredibly invasive procedure cheaply? Why are we pretending that this is a valid option for a cosmetic procedure?
Don't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.
For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.
Quote from: le0csff on June 21, 2023, 02:22:11 PMDon't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.
For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.
Every damn dollar I have I earned. Nobody gave me . I left home at 18 years old without any help after graduating high school. I worked hard to get to where I am today. I wasn't given free money. I wasn't given jobs because of family connections. I earned my keep. Top 5% salary? Not even close bud. I've been saving for the last ~2 years, and will continue to save for another year so that I can afford to do this surgery the right way. I even took a job on the other side of the country so that I could further my goals.
The only one here gross and insulting is you. You don't know my story. You don't know about me. You don't know the struggles I've gone through.
"80k". This just shows how little you know about this procedure. There are plenty of reputable surgeons around the world where you can get those procedure done for far less. You can get your femurs done with the Precice 2.2 nail by Dr. Giotikas for 44k. You can get it done by Dr. Birkholtz for 50k. You could(Precice isn't currently available in India, apparently) get it done by Dr. Parihar for ~42k.
If you want to get external tibias, that's your choice! I don't control what you do with your body. The point is, everyone needs to understand the severity of this procedure, and claiming external tibias only is the safest way to do Limb Lengthening is outright false. I acknowledge that price is a factor in this procedure. But why don't you acknowledge that safety is too? You are being disingenuous. People come to this forum to conduct research, and spewing nonsense could harm them in ways that could've been entirely avoided. Great job ignoring the rest of my argument.
Quote from: le0csff on June 21, 2023, 02:22:11 PMDon't act like price isn't significant. This stuff about 'don't cheap out bro' is almost always coming from a position of massive privilege where daddy's connections got you a good job, you were born into a rich family, or some other method where money essentially grows on trees.
For a lot of people, the choice is external tibias or don't get LL at all. There's no option just to magically summon $80k to do internals with a US doctor, $20k in Russia or Vietnam etc might be all they can do. Pontificating about how one 'shouldn't go cheap' while sat in your western country getting paid a top 5% salary is kinda gross and insulting, tbh.
This is a crazy thought i know, but have you ever stopped and thought that maybe, just maybe this surgery isnt meant for people who are fkn broke?? Its always blown my mind that people even consider this surgery before having even a semi decent job and some money saved. Like are you that desperate you would rather focus on your height then your goddamn job? Logical people with even a small bit of reasoning focus on there life (look maxing. Staying fit and healthy. Getting a career and saving) and THEN after all that they consider LL as the final thing to tally off the list. The problem with goonies like you is you don’t understand that this surgery is only for the rich, or those who actually worked and became succesful throughout there life. Stop prioritizing fkn LL over establishing your life. Its generally pathetic.
Quote from: NailedLegs on June 21, 2023, 06:54:31 PMEvery damn dollar I have I earned. Nobody gave me . I left home at 18 years old without any help after graduating high school. I worked hard to get to where I am today. I wasn't given free money. I wasn't given jobs because of family connections. I earned my keep. Top 5% salary? Not even close bud. I've been saving for the last ~2 years, and will continue to save for another year so that I can afford to do this surgery the right way. I even took a job on the other side of the country so that I could further my goals.
The only one here gross and insulting is you. You don't know my story. You don't know about me. You don't know the struggles I've gone through.
"80k". This just shows how little you know about this procedure. There are plenty of reputable surgeons around the world where you can get those procedure done for far less. You can get your femurs done with the Precice 2.2 nail by Dr. Giotikas for 44k. You can get it done by Dr. Birkholtz for 50k. You could(Precice isn't currently available in India, apparently) get it done by Dr. Parihar for ~42k.
If you want to get external tibias, that's your choice! I don't control what you do with your body. The point is, everyone needs to understand the severity of this procedure, and claiming external tibias only is the safest way to do Limb Lengthening is outright false. I acknowledge that price is a factor in this procedure. But why don't you acknowledge that safety is too? You are being disingenuous. People come to this forum to conduct research, and spewing nonsense could harm them in ways that could've been entirely avoided. Great job ignoring the rest of my argument.
I couldn't give a toss boyo since everyone claims they made their own money from nothing, I have no reason to believe your story over anyone elses. Whether you did or didn't is quite frankly irrelevant anyway, it doesn't mean everyone has a spare 80k (or 50k) to chuck at this. The difference between 50k and 20k could easily be the difference between being able to do the surgery and not being able to do it.
Hardly anyone is claiming external tibias is the best method. Of course if money is unlimited do internals. But don't just brush over the money aspect like it's nothing, price is very very much a consideration for the overwhelming majority of people out there.
Quote from: BestOfLuck on June 21, 2023, 08:31:34 PMThis is a crazy thought i know, but have you ever stopped and thought that maybe, just maybe this surgery isnt meant for people who are fkn broke?? Its always blown my mind that people even consider this surgery before having even a semi decent job and some money saved. Like are you that desperate you would rather focus on your height then your goddamn job? Logical people with even a small bit of reasoning focus on there life (look maxing. Staying fit and healthy. Getting a career and saving) and THEN after all that they consider LL as the final thing to tally off the list. The problem with goonies like you is you don’t understand that this surgery is only for the rich, or those who actually worked and became succesful throughout there life. Stop prioritizing fkn LL over establishing your life. Its generally pathetic.
Of course being taller is more important than having a 'semi decent job', that's not even remotely debatable.
BTW someone who has $20k saved up isn't 'broke', or even close to it. That's more than the overwhelming majority of Americans and Europeans have in the bank.
My entire point went over your head. Id personally recommend going back to school over LL for you, as criticisms go through one ear and out the other. My point isnt whats more important, the point is that broke fks like yourself shouldnt even be doing the surgery. Go ahead and get a loan and cheap out on this surgery thats your choice. Youll be shocked to realize girls arent interested in dating or getting married to a guy who went broke getting CLL because he was so insecure he opted for THAT over establishing his livelihood first. You really wanna go broke for LL of all things…?
(Edit) i posted this before you edited your reply saying you have 20k, so dont lecture me
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