Dating, Social Status, Income

After a long hiatus I decided to give online dating a try. I'm 5'3/163cm, white, in my late 20's and live in the US.

I joined Match.com about a week ago. As I expected, not many girls are interested in me. The first girl who messaged me said "Hey cutie!". She's quite attractive. The problem? She's 5'10 and skipped over my stats. I had to remind her of my height, to which she replied "Oh, yeah, dang". I've had about 4 other women do the same thing. They send a flirty message, then realize I'm short and disappear immediately.

The conclusion I draw from this is that I'm generally decent/good looking but women simply cannot look past height. What's frustrating is shorter women are no less shallow. In fact, I see more girls under 5'0 with height requirements above 5'9 than I do with women between 5'0 - 5'5. It becomes humorous finding profiles of short, extremely unattractive women who demand no less than ~5'9. They'd be lucky if anyone was willing to date them let alone someone that tall.

The ultra-religious women are also quite interesting. They exude this sense of pureness and humbleness for being so attached to their faith and yet they are so shallow. For example, one woman's profile reads in part "When I think of what I want in a mate, it is most important that he has a commitment to continually pursue God" "I am most thankful in my life for a God who loves me, guides me, motivates me, and forgives me." I want to ask her questions such as "Is God guiding you only to tall men? Can you ask God what he thinks of you only willing to date Christians above 5'10?" IIRC she's only 5'1 and probably a 5/10 as far as looks go. Literally no different than a devout Christian man saying he'll only date women with a D cup.

The conundrum I have with leg lengthening is two fold.

First, I'm attracted to women with humility. I wouldn't want to date a women so shallow that at 4'11 she'd be completely unwilling to even consider dating someone 5'3. That's just a huge turn off for me. I just read an article about guys above 6'0 responding to women who list off 6'0+ as a requirement and it just turns them off. It's no different for me - if you can't date a guy who's 5 inches taller than you because he's still "short" then "shallow" isn't a strong enough word to describe who you are as a person.

Second, leg lengthening is just that. Leg lengthening. Taller men are bigger. Larger frames, hands, feet, dcks (probably), torsos, etc. I would think a woman dating you would start noticing those things. It will start with little comments. "You have small hands". "You're only a size 7.5?" Stuff like that. Then what? I'm not saying this is an absolute or anything it just seems like leg lengthening wouldn't be a cure-all for being short.

Lastly, I have high income. I make high 6 figures a year. Someone asked in another thread if this helps. I don't think it does. Why? Because 99% of men out there are not abnormally short. If income is what they're after they have the same luxury of finding a taller rich guy if they want to. Ironically, the only girl that matched my desired description (personality, looks, etc) had a desired income for her partner as UNDER $50,000. Seems like she would be intimidated by a "rich" guy.

The solution to all of this:
Everyone considering leg lengthening should instead donate their money to a shady European doctor who will do research in order to figure out some ingenious way to make an adult growth supplement so we can just grow our bodies pain free until we're all 6'4 professional athletes.

I completely understand where you are coming from by not wanting to date shallow women.

I've seen one flame war in these forums because of a short woman who registered here and said she wouldn't date men under 5'9. While I think she lacked the awareness to understand where she was posting that, and lacked it further by not apologizing, remember it's also a two fold thing for them. We may personally feel short women should be the last ones to be so picky about height, and that they should be the ones who are the most comfortable with short men, but remember a lot of women aren't simply looking for flings, but possible long term partners. Think of everything very short men have to go through in life. It's very shxtty for them to vocalize their preferences, but they may be just wanting to avoid a fate like that for their sons (having very short sons, being short woman + short man). I'd say to still date short men and just do in-vitro fertilization if it becomes something serious, so you don't risk having sons, but this is not something that crosses the mind of most normal people.

Also, I'd recommend trying to meet other people in places where you share a hobby or a passion. Or look into older women who want to marry, not to date. General, unspecific online dating is probably not ideal for shorter men.

QuoteSecond, leg lengthening is just that. Leg lengthening. Taller men are bigger. Larger frames, hands, feet, dcks (probably), torsos, etc. I would think a woman dating you would start noticing those things. It will start with little comments. "You have small hands". "You're only a size 7.5?" Stuff like that. Then what? I'm not saying this is an absolute or anything it just seems like leg lengthening wouldn't be a cure-all for being short.

This is mostly in your mind. Look at Trump with his hands. Henry Cavill with his short arms. Look at the amount of short users here with big feet. Torso length does depend on height, but most other things can be a stretch of your imagination. There are a lot of taller guys who look like twigs, with thin frames (despite the torso length), and you can see all these very wide, but shorter people, with wide clavicles, in places like Turkey.

QuoteI'm not saying this is an absolute or anything it just seems like leg lengthening wouldn't be a cure-all for being short.

It depends on what you want out of it. You need to examine that within yourself. I see the optimal use of LL, in regards to dating, as being something to get over the initial hurdle of persons you're interested in not even giving you a chance because of your height. But there are also a lot of other factors we can't control that make other people not give us a chance; height is just one of them. Either way, ideally, after LL, they'd stay for who you are, after having given you the chance and getting to know you enough. Most people can't even fathom someone used to be shorter in their adulthood. Looks are very biological in nature, and it's probably more about feeling than logic. Just imagine a tall woman who underwent limb shortening to get smaller than you are, in the opposite scenario. I think most people wouldn't give it much thought, as long as they feel attracted. It's obviously a problem, however, if you got someone interested in you mostly/only because of your height, and it could even ruin a marriage in the long term because they might feel they were cheated, if they learn about it much later.

I think LL is very extreme and I'm not trying to convince anyone to do it. It's a last resort, as people say. You break your legs, it's risky, and you spend a lot of time out of work; you need to be sure this will give you peace of mind and quality of life. I think you can find someone for you who won't care about your height if you keep looking and selling yourself well. We've all seen people in rougher conditions managing to find significant others. I'm just offering my thoughts.

I know all too well how you feel, OP. I actually never really struggled with women before LL, even though I was 5'5" ish (I said 5'7" online, got caught a few times, but for the most part, I pulled it off). Some women are more/less shallow than others, but almost all women do not want to date a man below 5'7" (more often, it's 5'9" and up these days). Height is the closest thing we have to an almost universal dealbreaker in dating. You can have literally everything going for you, but if you're below 5'7", you're gonna struggle. It's as simple as that, and I don't ever see this changing because it's such a primitive thing. For instance, even though we have the fat women acceptance movement, most men still aren't attracted to fat women. We can all band together and start a "#MeToo #ShortLivesMatter #StopShortShaming #ShortMenAreSexy" movement, but it will not change the fact that women (actually, all of us, men and women) are mammals and are always going to be attracted to/worship height. End of.

However, I will say...don't do LL for women. Do it for yourself. I know that seems contradictory to what I just said, but LL is such an extreme surgery that you're going to need to look deep inside yourself for the motivation to get through the entire process, and I don't believe a hypothetical woman or women in general are worth it enough to get anyone through the entire process. I know it wouldn't have been for me. I did LL because I hated being short, always did, even before I was dating. I'm still only a bit over 5'8" now, but I have to say...the difference is like night and day. Sad comment on society how just a few inches makes that big of a difference, but I'm living proof that it does.

Well i definitely understand what you are saying. Im not an attractive guy but i do however have a interesting personality wich attracts women but it never leads anywere because of my height. Im about the same age as you and during all these years i have only met two girls with slightly-above-average-looks who looked past my short height. And just like you pointed out, short girls are the worst when it comes to requiring a tall guy, but i think it has to do with them being insecure themselves. And since guys rarely denies women because of their height, they take advantage of this and thus feel more "normal". You cant really blame them. 

Very good replies that I agree to.

Adding to that, about these shallow women. Let's face it, men can be shallow too. For instance, you're rating them aren't you? Surely you won't date someone that doesn't meet your minimum number just because they have a nicely written profile. Men are much more sensitive when it comes to the face and body type (including weight) while women are generally interested in height and profession (status, financial security).

It's a give and take for both sides, but at the same time these requirements can be bent if they talk and hit it off. Online dating is brutal for short men and overweight women, so this works better offline; there's just too much choice online, too many signals that say that the next profile is even better.

Wow this is like the first thread on this forum talking about height in a reasonable non-obsessive non-deterministic way

I forget that there are normal rational people on this forum too

You definitely need to do LL for yourself

Quote from: Android on December 31, 2017, 12:39:16 AMVery good replies that I agree to.

Adding to that, about these shallow women. Let's face it, men can be shallow too. For instance, you're rating them aren't you? Surely you won't date someone that doesn't meet your minimum number just because they have a nicely written profile. Men are much more sensitive when it comes to the face and body type (including weight) while women are generally interested in height and profession (status, financial security).

It's a give and take for both sides, but at the same time these requirements can be bent if they talk and hit it off. Online dating is brutal for short men and overweight women, so this works better offline; there's just too much choice online, too many signals that say that the next profile is even better.

Your post hits the nail on the head, even if short men have it much harder.

Wheelchair-bound and third-degree burn victims get married and live happily. If you are reasonable about your standards, you can find someone for you. Height and your success is not a fatalistic matter unless you allow it to be. 

Also, no one should expect to care so much about appearance and not have it done to them.

Quote from: myloginacct on December 31, 2017, 01:34:56 AMYour post hits the nail on the head, even if short men have it much harder.

Wheelchair-bound and third-degree burn victims get married and live happily. If you are reasonable about your standards, you can find someone for you. Height and your success is not a fatalistic matter unless you allow it to be. 

Also, no one should expect to care so much about appearance and not have it done to them.

This exactly ^

Thanks for all of the interesting responses.

I wouldn't be doing LL for someone else per se. My argument is mainly this: It's hard enough for normal height people to find people they're truly compatible with and connect to. When you take away 95% of women, it doesn't look good statistically. I feel like short of a miracle (no pun intended), my options are 1) Be alone 2) Be with someone who isn't what I'm really looking for but happen to be one of the few who can look past my height (probably because of their own shortcomings) 3) Move to the Philippines (average male height 5'3 IIRC).

The other benefit is obviously not being discriminated against by other adults. The first thing everyone notices about you when you're 5'3 is that you're 5'3. So, when you're around a bunch of tall(er) people you feel out of place. Even around exceptionally nice people it's awkward when their 13 year old kids come down the stairs and you're only as tall as they are.

I don't want children (I don't say that in my dating profiles). I don't buy the "but our kids will be short" argument. Plenty of guys I grew up with ended up very tall - much taller than their parents. Many of them had very short parents to begin with. Clearly, you're not going to be short simply because your parents are. On that note, my parents wanted to give me growth hormone growing up. They kept a letter from a doctor I later read recently for the first time. He said I was normal so (but short) so I shouldn't get any. GRRR! It's hard not to feel like I didn't get a fair shake in life. I would much rather be less attractive and taller, then have a decent looking face/build and be this short.

I have the money and the time but what's holding me back is the downtime and fear of complications. I had a heart problem when I was 24 (undiagnosed) and have palpitations occasionally. I'm worried off my feet for so long could lead to problems, if not the surgery itself possibly killing me. I'm paranoid about anesthesia. However in another thread I read about that new nail that's supposed to be a weight bearing nail - POSSIBLY for cosmetic LL in the coming years?

BTW could a moderator approve this thread, please?
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5096.0

You don't need to wait for a miracle. I mean sure, the odds are worse, but it happens. And hey, money is a great equalizer. Since you mentioned the Philippines, you could be 4'11" and still find plenty of dates if you've got the resources to provide for them (and their family).

If you really don't want kids, I recommend that you list it in your profile. It's like religion, you don't want it to be a dealbreaker later because you can't (and shouldn't) change their mind on the subject. Many good relationships have ended because one person definitely wants kids. You're also effectively turning away women that don't want kids by being deceptive about your decision as well.

There are multiple methods for anesthesia for the procedure: general and regional (spinal and epidural). I'd consult with a doctor on which is right for you and your condition.